Max amount of daily protein intake

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    Max amount of daily protein intake

    I've been incorporating about 2grams per lb of bodyweight daily but does anyone know what the maximum amount of protein should be PER intake? That is, could anything above X grams in one sitting be a waste? I've heard anything over 30 grams at one time cannot be handled efficiently but I think the threshhold must be higher than this, especially if one's routine involves higher nitrogen retention, increased protein synthesis, improved red blood cell count, "slightly" elevated testosterone to epitestosterone ratio, etc.

    Stats: 5'8", 220lbs, approx. 12-13% BF, cycled on/off since '96.

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    Anything more than 50-55g per meal is too much in my opinion. Every 1.5-2 hours.

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    According to Bilsborough and Mann, the upper limit of what is considered safe is stated at 365 grams of protein for a person weighing 80kg - roughly 175 lbs. This works out to about 2.1 grams of protein per pound bodyweight.

    Nobody is zero percent bodyfat: healthy-lean for a man is about 10% bodyfat, and for a woman is about 20% bodyfat. The greatest amount of lean mass a person weighing 175 lbs can reasonably be expected to carry is 80%-90% of 175 lbs, which works out to 140-160 lbs.

    365 grams of protein daily - the top of the stated "safe" range for daily protein consumption for a person weighing 175 lbs, and therefore carrying at most 160 lbs of lean mass - works out to 2.3g of protein per pound lean mass.



    A Review of Issues of Dietary Protein Intake in Humans
    Shane Bilsborough and Neil Mann
    International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism, 2006, 16, 129-152 © 2006 Human Kinetics, Inc.





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    Its hard to say as everyone is different and there hasn't exactly been many test on this.

    I however agree with CT.

    Don't think the body is able to process more than 50-60g per hour.

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    I try to stay within 2-2.5gr per pound throughout the day.


    /V

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    Quote Originally Posted by blazeftp View Post
    Its hard to say as everyone is different and there hasn't exactly been many test on this.
    I however agree with CT.
    Don't think the body is able to process more than 50-60g per hour.
    http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
    Martin Berkhan would tend to disagree with you.

    5. Myth: Maintain a steady supply of amino acids by eating protein every 2-3 hours. The body can only absorb 30 grams of protein in one sitting.


    Truth
    Whenever you hear something really crazy you need to ask yourself if it makes sense from an evolutionary perspective. It's a great way to quickly determine if something may be valid or if it's more likely a steaming pile of horseshit. This myth is a great example of the latter. Do you think we would be here today if our bodies could only make use of 30 grams of protein per meal?

    The simple truth is that more protein just takes a longer time to digest and be utilized. For some concrete numbers, digestion of a
    standard meal is still incomplete after five hours. Amino acids are still being released into your bloodstream and absorbed into muscles. You are still "anabolic." This is a fairly standard "Average Joe"-meal: 600 kcal, 75 g carbs, 37 g protein and 17 g fat. Best of all? This was after eating pizza, a refined food that should be quickly absorbed relatively speaking.

    Think about this for a second. How long do you think a big steak, with double the protein intake of the above example, and a big pile of veggies would last you? More than 10 hours, that's for sure. Meal composition plays an important role in absorption speed, especially when it comes to amino acids. Type of protein, fiber, carbohydrates and prior meals eaten all affect how long you'll have amino acids released and being taken up by tissues after meals.









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    Sorry didn't elaborate more.
    I meant the body won't be able to digest more than 50-60g of protein per hour but if you ate 100g of protein the rest would still digest but not within the hour.

    The body only puts a small amount of protein to waste.

    Its like drinking a bottle of water and you get that small part left at the bottom.
    That would be the protein in your body that the body wasted or didn't use.

    This is how i see it anyway.

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    To me this argues in favour of consuming a large portion of protein at once, rather than small amounts. Less overall waste.

    There may actually be a benefit to pulsing protein rather than eating it steadily - at least for bulking. Meal Frequency for Mass Gains | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald

    "Is there an optimal intake pattern for different goals?
    In the chapter on protein requirements, I mentioned Tipton and Wolfe’s contention that any discussion of protein requirements has to be context dependent: that is, the goals of the athlete determine what is optimal in terms of protein intake. While they were talking primarily about total daily protein intake, this idea can be extended to other aspects of nutrition including protein intake throughout the day and how it might interact with specific training goals.

    Logically, gaining muscle mass versus maintaining muscle mass at maintenance calories versus trying to maintain muscle mass under conditions of caloric restriction (dieting) are different situations, potentially requiring different optimal intakes of protein, AAs, meal frequency or protein intake pattern. The possibility exists that different patterns of protein intake (in terms of both timing and type of protein) might exist for different goals (27).

    For practical purposes, I’m going to consider the following discussion in terms of two different goals: muscle mass maintenance (either at maintenance calories or while dieting) and muscle mass gain. I want to note that most of this discussion will be somewhat hypothetical since little direct research exists to date.

    The background for this discussion can be derived from a topic I’ve discussed previously in the book in terms of how different patterns of protein digestion (i.e. fast versus slow) can influence whole body metabolism differently.

    Recapping briefly, large spikes in amino acid concentration appear to stimulate protein synthesis (recall also the infusion data I discussed above) with little to no impact on protein breakdown. In contrast, maintaining constant low levels of AAs appears to reduce protein breakdown with less of an impact on protein synthesis.

    Consuming very large amounts of protein at once (as in the protein “pulse” studies discussed above) has an effect similar to a fast protein such as whey, spiking blood amino acids and promoting protein synthesis as well as oxidation (28).

    In contrast, spreading protein out in smaller amounts throughout the day has an effect closer to that of casein, inhibiting protein breakdown with a smaller impact on protein synthesis (28).

    I’d mention again that, in the original whey versus casein study, reducing protein breakdown via casein had a larger impact on net leucine balance compared to whey. Recall also that adding whey to other food, which had the effect of slowing down digestion, had a similar effect.

    Given that data, it may very well be that simply maintaining relatively constant low levels of amino acids (with a spike around training, discussed next chapter) is optimal for all goals. This would be conceptually similar to the strategy of keeping insulin low but stable during the day with a spike around training. This is essentially the strategy that bodybuilders have empirically settled on under all situations: they eat small amounts of protein, carbohydrates and fat throughout the day with a relatively larger intake of nutrients around training.

    With regards to muscle mass maintenance and dieting, there is little to discuss: based on the direct research available as well as the general difficulty in stimulating protein synthesis when calories are reduced, a slow/spread pattern of protein intake is clearly optimal.

    Maintaining continuous low levels of amino acids throughout the day (in addition to increasing total protein intake) to limit the body’s need to mobilize stored body protein from muscle and other tissues should be the goal. A combination of slow proteins combined with evenly spaced meals to keep blood AA levels stable throughout the day would seem to be optimal.

    But is this also the optimal pattern for gaining muscle mass? On the one hand there is the suggestive study above where a group receiving three meals per day gained more LBM than a group receiving six per day; as well there is the research suggesting that maintaining constant levels of AAs might cause skeletal muscle to become “insensitive” to further stimulation; increasing extracellular levels of AAs and then allowing them to fall again appears to be superior. Both of these data points suggest that keeping blood AA levels stable throughout the day might not be optimal from the standpoint of muscle mass gains.

    Another recent study throws a wrench in the typically held
    bodybuilder idea that simply maintaining continuous levels of amino acids with frequent meal feeding is optimal (29). In that study, two groups were compared. The first received three whole food meals while the second received the same three meals with an essential amino acid (EAA) supplement in-between. I should note that the study suffered from one huge design flaw: the groups got different amounts of total protein. It should have also tested a group that got 6 whole food meals and the same amount of protein as the EAA supplemented group.

    Recognizing that limitation, the study made at least three major observations. The first was that the EAA supplement generated a greater protein synthetic response than the whole meals. The second was that the EAA supplement generated an anabolic response even when given in-between meals. That is to say, the previously consumed meal, which was still digesting when the supplement was given, didn’t blunt the effect of the EAA supplement. Finally, the EAA supplement didn’t blunt the anabolic response to the meal. Of course, the study didn’t examine what impact this would actually have in the long-term on muscle mass gains but is interesting nonetheless.

    This study suggests that a potential pattern at least worth experimenting with for athletes seeking maximal muscle mass gains would be to alternate between slower digesting meals with faster acting sources (perhaps a whey protein drink or an EAA supplement) throughout the day (25).

    It also plausible that a combination of slow and fast protein sources at a given meal could give the best of both worlds: a spike in AAs to stimulate protein synthesis followed by a slower increase to inhibit protein breakdown. Preliminary data that I discussed back in Chapter 2 supports that idea as well although it was being primarily applied to protein intake following resistance training. It’s interesting to note that old school bodybuilders often consumed copious amounts of milk to gain lean body mass as milk protein is a mixture of whey and casein."





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    If I comsume really high amounts of protein over some weeks say 300+ grams a day my system feels taxed and I get distended. If I stay at around 200 grams per day and then pulse in high protein days I feel it works better and gives less discomfort. 2 days of a 300 gram pulse makes my muscles much more full. My body just does not like sustained gorging over months and months. It likes change. So it's like pulse and grow then maintain, pulse and grow, then maintain.. repeat.

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    there is no maximum amount of protein. the body will digest whatever amount is placed in the gastrointestinal tract (GIT). how much of that protein is utilized depends on the demands of the individual. the more lean body mass or fat free mass a person has AND the greater the amount of muscle protein turnover of that individual the more dietary protein that person needs and can utilize. resistance training is catabolic by nature what this means is that at the conclusion of every training bout the body has a negative protein balance as the result of some muscle proteins having been catabolized for energy.

    Some info from Lemon et al., 1992 (Peter Lemon Ph.D Kent State)

    " Lemon divides physical activity into two broad categories, heavy resistance exercise and endurance exercise. For resistance exercise, Lemon cites several studies that have approached this subject from different aspects. Fern (1991) compared body mass gains using 3.3 versus 1.3 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day. After 4 weeks, the 3.3 group had larger gains. Meredith et al. (1992) found the addition of 23 grams of protein per day enhanced muscle gains. Two studies are also cited that held individuals at the RDA for protein and found negative nitrogen balance after engaging in strength training (Lemon et al., 1992, Tarnopolsky et al., 1992). The Tarnopolsky study also used protein intakes of 1.4 and 2.4 grams per kilogram per day with no difference in protein synthesis between the 1.4 and 2.4.

    Lemon summarizes this work as follows, "These studies indicate that the RDA (which was determined using subjects who were essentially sedentary) is insufficient for individuals who are involved in a heavy resistance training program." Lemon goes on to show linear regression analysis to arrive at a protein intake of 1.7 - 1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day to maintain nitrogen balance while working out with weights."
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    At its simplest, your body has a baseline protein requirement that depends on a two main factors: lean body mass (muscle) and activity (type and amount).

    The more muscle your body carries, the higher your protein requirement. Also, the more intense, the more frequent and the longer the activity you perform, the more protein you need.
    Though the exact amounts that different sources recommend varies widely between 0.7 grams per pound of body-weight (140 grams for a 200 lb person) to levels as high as 2 grams per pound of body-weight (400 grams for a 200 lb person)

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    i dont eat or workout. just tic tacs, del monte fruit cups and tae bo. I repeat...YOU DO NOT NEED PROTEIN TO GROW. food does nothing. training does Nothing. when will you pricks finally realize this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Fantastico View Post
    i dont eat or workout. just tic tacs, del monte fruit cups and tae bo. I repeat...YOU DO NOT NEED PROTEIN TO GROW. food does nothing. training does Nothing. when will you pricks finally realize this?

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    50g is ok..and maxx 300 a day..more is waist
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    Quote Originally Posted by CT View Post
    Anything more than 50-55g per meal is too much in my opinion. Every 1.5-2 hours.
    Some studies Even says 30-40gr...

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