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Q and A with TwisT and heavyiron

IML Gear Cream!
Thanks, they are all daily amounts. i was doing the HGH at night only, and doing the GHRP and GRF to pulse during the day.
THe HGH is daily... 365 a year...
6' 1" 250 before the water, 275 now.
Experience
Back in the day i was in the film industry and i cycled then. I got old, fat, and lazy, while i cannot do much about the age, the rest i can change.

Started working out again about two years ago, dropped over 50 lbs, i have done some smaller cycles, test only, test/winnie in the past 2 years. i am making good gains, but then the water hit.
Not really sure what you mean by weekly oils, the injectables are in GSO.
test is 250/ml, winnie 50mg/ML, Tren 100mgs/ml Deca 300mgs/ML.
I prefer to pin smaller amounts daily since i am pinning anyway, so instead of (for example), doing Tren at 100 mg EOD i do 50 every day.

Thanks
 
I dont know bro. You would get less water from test prop since your pinning every day. Try splitting g the HGH and cut back on the deca. I usually do winny on the backend of a cycle and at just 50 mg/day. Don't know if that could be contributing to the water - maybe if it's reacting wierd with something else.

Are you sure your aramasin is g2g? Any other gyno type symptoms?

Might create a new thread in the anabolic section to get more info.
 
Thanks i may do that.
I got the amarosin from a sponser of good reputation here, but to be honest i have been wondering if it is under dosed, (i mean even good guys make mistakes), as my nipples have been a bit tender, but nothing major. The dosage i am taking should have been more than adequate.
As of now, i have dropped the deca and will see how that goes for a few weeks.

I got a new prescription of a stronger diuretic, 25mgs of Hydrochlorothiazide, and i am taking pottasium with it, so we will see what it looks like a week from now.

Part of the bummer is that this has been a bad workout week, some physical because of the water, and some mental for the same reason. But as in all things, i will overcome.

My understanding is that the winnie and tren should actually help reduce the water.
Winstrol (Stanozolol) - Steroid .com

and
In bodybuilding, stanozolol is typically "stacked" with other testosterone-based anabolic steroids. Stanozolol is preferred by many steroid users due to the fact that it causes strength increases without excess weight-gain, promotes increases in vascularity,[citation needed] and will not convert to estrogen. It also does not cause excess water retention, and is thought to have a diuretic effect on the body.[citation needed]
Stanozolol is commonly used by athletes and bodybuilders alike to lose fat while retaining lean body mass. It is usually used in a "cutting cycle", to help preserve lean body mass while metabolizing adipose, although it has not been proven conclusively that it has any special fat-burning properties.

Trenbolone - Steroid .com



Thanks for the input
 
FrankJames said:
I am 56 years old, good diet, 4 - 6 liters of water a day.
Work out 6 days a week, split routine, chest/back/legs next day shoulders/triceps/biceps/forearms 4 - 6 excercises per body part 3 sets of everything, 15 - 10 - 5

So here is my cycle, i am about 4 weeks in.

50mg Deca
100mg Winstrol
150mg Test Cyp
50mg Tren Acetate
25mg Amarosin
100 mcg Ghrp-2 Split into two shots First AM then Post afternoon workout
100mcg Mod Grf 1 -29 Split into two shots First AM then Post afternoon workout
4IU HGH Last thing at night
These are all Daily doses
Weekly i am doing 2ml Thymosin Beta 4 and about 1ml of Melanotin II.

The problem is i have gained a ton of water, about 25 lbs. i went to a dr, had blood work done, everything was good, no kidney liver issues etc... i got 20mg Lasix, and they do pretty much nothing. i am going back Friday for a follow up and hopefully get something stronger, but i am wondering what i am missing. I am thinking i will cut the Deca and possibly the Test till i get this under control.

Any thoughts are truly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Look into your carb intake. That's the main culprit for my water retention. I'm running test E at 600 and inj dianabol at 50 mg EOD with no water issues. The dif is I am keeping my carbs in control. 200 g or less a day. 2 days a week I go up to 350-400 g. I'm also in my 50s.
 
Notice the key word in the winny description is "used in a cutting cycle" typically with prop. Winnie won't overcome the water retention of deca, HGH and cyp by itself. True tren is for hardening, but again you have alot of juice geared toward bulking not cutting. Switch deca to eq and you have more of a lean mass builder cycle.

I still think the Ed injections of test cyp and deca are Contributing but I don't have any science to back it up. Just a gut feel.
 
Make sure you are drinking at least half your body weight in oz of water too.
 
This might be completely off, but I just want to make sure I am understanding correctly...

So I've been reading some on amiridex since I've been seeing it included during cycles instead of aromasin. Heavy informed me that amiridex has a longer half life then aromasin, so is that why more people are running that during cycle, and aromasin in pct because of it's suicidal effect on estrogen? Thanks, just trying to become more informed and up to date with the better protocols...
 
Exactly, run a suicide inhibitor at the end.
 
Hi Guys,

I'm about to begin my first cycle, I'm quite scared but more excited by that!

With the help of Heavy Iron and some others great guys, here is what I plan. I think it is now pretty solid now but if you have any suggestions feel free to express.

Cycle :


Sunday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

Monday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 500iu HCG / 1 quarter tablet of Procar per day (1.25mg)

Tuesday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 300mg Enanthate /1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

Wednesday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

Thursday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

Friday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin /300mg Enanthate / 1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

Saturday : 10/12,5mg Aromasin / 500iu HCG / 1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

---------------

Post Cycle Therapy :

2 weeks waiting the esters clear out with 2 injections of HCG. 1000iu HCG on monday and 1000iu on saturday

100/75/50/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day during 3 weeks and the week 4, 50mg taken once per day) (is it enough???????)

20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks, 10mg daily in week 4)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses
10g creatine daily

1 quarter tablet of Proscar per day (1.25mg)

--------

DIET

Calories : 3500-4000 calories each day (reaching the 4k progressively if not overkill and necessary)

Proteins : 300 grams or more (1,5g to 2G of proteins per pound of LBM)

Carbs : 300g

Fat : 100 grams (0,5g of fat per pound of LBM)

------------

TRAINING

Baby Got Back :

DAY 1 :

Rack pulls 5X5

BO rows 3X8

One-arm dumbbell 3x12

Barbell bench 5X5

Dumbbell bench 3X8

Pectoral Fly 3X12 reps

Optional standing calves, one leg at a time, 3x12

Abdominos


DAY 2:

Alternating dumbbell curls 5X5

3X8 supersets of :

- reps incline dumbbell curls
- reps close grip pulldowns

Squats 5X5

Front squats 3X8

Walking lunges 3X12

GHR 3x8

Abdominos


DAY 3:

clean-and-press 5X5

Weighted chins 3X8

Unweighted chins 5X5

Olympic bar corner press 3x8

lateral raises - 3x12

Adominos


DAY 4 :

Deadlift 5X5

GHR 3X8

Leg curl 5X5

Front Squat 3X8

Dips (lifted) 5X5

Closegrip barbell bench 3X8

Abdominos

------

Blood test before starting ( I have to analyse my T level and Tryglicerid)

resultat-3-1.jpg


resultat-3.jpg
 
IML Gear Cream!
Went to the Lab. Today for blood test:

Testosterone
Estradiol
Cholestérol HDL/LDL
Triglycerid
Phosphatase Alcaline
Bilirubin
 
What were your results brother?
 
Hey bro,

Alright, while I'm waiting my gear.... (PLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASE come fast!!!!!:daydream:)

I went to the lab to do a full blood test prior to my first cycle, here are the results :

Cholesterol : 1,55 g/L
4,01 mmol/L

Cholesterol HDL: 0,33 g/L
0,85 mmol/L

Total Cholesterol/HDL: 4,70

Cholesteol LDL: 0,94 g/L
2,43 mmol/L

Cholesterol HDL/LDL: 0,35

VLDL Cholesterol: 0,28g/L

Tryglycerids: 1,41 g/L
1,59 mmol/L

Phospatases alcalins: 46U/L

Testosterone: 7,93ng/ml ( I was surprised to be that high. For a an adult guy the rangeis between 2.8 to 11.00)
27,52nmol/L

Estradiol : 23pg/ml
84pmol/L
 
Your T to E2 ratio looks sweet brother.
 
Yep, we will see when I'll begin my cycle.

I plan to do two others blood test, one during the fifth week which will the middle of my cycle and an other one at the end of my PCT.
 
Just got prescribed .55cc of depo-test every 10 days. Endo won't prescribe an AI.

I think 0.55 cc's = 550mg - isn't it?
How often? - should I divide this up more frequently since it's a shorter chain than enanthate (8) and cyp (9) ?

Should I try to get Aromasin, or a SERM, if levels look bad?
I have to use privatemdlabs because endo wants to test 3-6 months apart.
 
Ideas for next mini blast

I am 47 years old, 5'9" 193lbs. 10-11% BF. I have been training for several years, Mostly a strength and endurance athlete, I have been on TRT for 2.5+ years @ 240mg per week, I have been doing a mini blast and cruise the whole time alternating 12 weeks @ 240mg per week and 12 weeks @ 480mg per week, with added SDMZ, Epi, etc. during the mini blast portions, I have had good success but want to add a little more to the next one.

Week 1-12 Test E 560mg per week, split Mon and Thurs
Week 1-12 Mast E 400mg per week, split Mon and Thurs
Week 1-12 Deca 120mg per week, split Mon and Thurs
Week 1-4 SDMZ 1.0 2 caps per day, split am and pm
Week 9-12 Anavar 70mg per day, split am and pm
Week 1-12 Adex .5mg EOD
Week 1-12 Liver support and 1.5 gallons of water per day
Labs at week 5 to adjust AI if needed. My diet is pretty clean, mostly whole foods with some protein supplementation pre and post workout, 3100-3400 calories per day, + 5-7 grams Omega 3 fish oil, glucosamine, chondroitin, MSN, vitamin D, there is bound to be something I've left out, Any input that might help me make this a more productive cycle is appreciated, mostly looking to get a little leaner with a strength bias vs getting bigger, have decided against Tren because I am a little edgy already and I don't sleep well as it is, also the Deca is only involved for joint relief, that's why its so low, Thanks for your time, Riles
 
Riles said:
I am 47 years old, 5'9" 193lbs. 10-11% BF. I have been training for several years, Mostly a strength and endurance athlete, I have been on TRT for 2.5+ years @ 240mg per week, I have been doing a mini blast and cruise the whole time alternating 12 weeks @ 240mg per week and 12 weeks @ 480mg per week, with added SDMZ, Epi, etc. during the mini blast portions, I have had good success but want to add a little more to the next one.

Week 1-12 Test E 560mg per week, split Mon and Thurs
Week 1-12 Mast E 400mg per week, split Mon and Thurs
Week 1-12 Deca 120mg per week, split Mon and Thurs
Week 1-4 SDMZ 1.0 2 caps per day, split am and pm
Week 9-12 Anavar 70mg per day, split am and pm
Week 1-12 Adex .5mg EOD
Week 1-12 Liver support and 1.5 gallons of water per day
Labs at week 5 to adjust AI if needed. My diet is pretty clean, mostly whole foods with some protein supplementation pre and post workout, 3100-3400 calories per day, + 5-7 grams Omega 3 fish oil, glucosamine, chondroitin, MSN, vitamin D, there is bound to be something I've left out, Any input that might help me make this a more productive cycle is appreciated, mostly looking to get a little leaner with a strength bias vs getting bigger, have decided against Tren because I am a little edgy already and I don't sleep well as it is, also the Deca is only involved for joint relief, that's why its so low, Thanks for your time, Riles
Click to expand...
I like the plan but I would keep Nolvadex on hand in case gyno presents brother.
 
Thank you Heavyiron, I will have Nolvadex on hand before I get started, Thank you Riles
 
You are very welcome brother
 
IML Gear Cream!
Heavy,

I ran into some gyno on my current cycle.
week 1-8 350mg of Test Prop/week
week 1-6/7 455mg of NPP/week
week 1-5 30mg of dbol ed
.5mg of caber e3d
250iu of HCG e3d

While running 30mg of aromasin ed my number came in as follows...
Estrogen at 97.8. Range 7.6-42.6
Prolactin was 14.0 Range 4.0-15.2

Not sure if I can name to source but they're 20mg tabs and a source that I've used in the past. Last time I used 30mg ed and my estro was just slightly higher than reference ranges and I was using a lot more test(but no dbol and no hcg). I don't know if this was a bad/underdosed batch of if the dbol or hcg is causing the problem.

Anyway, as of about 8 days ago I started adex at 1-1.5mg ed and nolvadex at 40mg ed. I haven't noticed any significant improvement yet, still have small lumps that are tender. I did notice an increase in libido in the past week which I'm assuming is because my estrogen is dropping. Last night I woke up sweaty as all hell(not sure if maybe I'm dropping too low now even though I still have gyno symptoms?)

I stopped dbol yesterday as I'm now in week 6. My plan is to continue adex at 1mg ed and nolvadex at 40mg ed for the next week to see if symptoms lessen. It's been suggested that I should try letro, but I remember you telling me years back that it's not actually much stronger than other AI's. My plan once I can lessen these symptoms would be to slowly taper the adex while introducing that aromasin again probably at 40-60mg ed to start since I'm not convinced it's dosed properly. If this works I'd run aromasin right into pct with climid in a few weeks.

My questions for you are...
-Do you think I'm on the right path to addressing this?
-If over the next week, with the high dosed adex & nolvadex ed and no more dbol, if symptoms still persist do you have any suggestions?

I know this is a long one, thanks for any help in advance!
 
also, it the letro use for gyno more "bro-science" than legitimate? Not 100% sure on whether I want to bother ordering it
 
DaBeast25 said:
Heavy,

I ran into some gyno on my current cycle.
week 1-8 350mg of Test Prop/week
week 1-6/7 455mg of NPP/week
week 1-5 30mg of dbol ed
.5mg of caber e3d
250iu of HCG e3d

While running 30mg of aromasin ed my number came in as follows...
Estrogen at 97.8. Range 7.6-42.6
Prolactin was 14.0 Range 4.0-15.2

Not sure if I can name to source but they're 20mg tabs and a source that I've used in the past. Last time I used 30mg ed and my estro was just slightly higher than reference ranges and I was using a lot more test(but no dbol and no hcg). I don't know if this was a bad/underdosed batch of if the dbol or hcg is causing the problem.

Anyway, as of about 8 days ago I started adex at 1-1.5mg ed and nolvadex at 40mg ed. I haven't noticed any significant improvement yet, still have small lumps that are tender. I did notice an increase in libido in the past week which I'm assuming is because my estrogen is dropping. Last night I woke up sweaty as all hell(not sure if maybe I'm dropping too low now even though I still have gyno symptoms?)

I stopped dbol yesterday as I'm now in week 6. My plan is to continue adex at 1mg ed and nolvadex at 40mg ed for the next week to see if symptoms lessen. It's been suggested that I should try letro, but I remember you telling me years back that it's not actually much stronger than other AI's. My plan once I can lessen these symptoms would be to slowly taper the adex while introducing that aromasin again probably at 40-60mg ed to start since I'm not convinced it's dosed properly. If this works I'd run aromasin right into pct with climid in a few weeks.

My questions for you are...
-Do you think I'm on the right path to addressing this?
-If over the next week, with the high dosed adex & nolvadex ed and no more dbol, if symptoms still persist do you have any suggestions?

I know this is a long one, thanks for any help in advance!
Click to expand...
D-bol can aromatize quite a bit. I would drop the D-bol and just take Nolvadex at 10-20 mg twice daily.
 
Heavy or TwistT,

This is some what a TRT question but I also blast now and then.
Anyway Aveed was just FDA approved and my urologist asked if I would be willing to try. I am on the fence.
Protocol would be 750mg initial shot at DR's office than after 4 weeks another 750mg shot, from there out 750mg every 10 weeks and it is undecanoate ester. I currently am prescribed 100mg test cyp/wk, but I typically run 200mg/wk. I feel that is my sweet spot...Let me know what you think.....

Sincerely,
 
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