"America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor..."

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    "America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor..."






    "America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves.

    To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, "It ain't no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be."

    It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor.

    Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold.

    No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters.

    The meanest eating or drinking establishment. owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question:
    "If you're so smart, why ain't you rich?"

    There will also be an American flag no larger than a child's hand-glued to a lollipop stck and flying from the cash register.

    Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue.

    Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money.

    They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves.

    This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times.

    Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these. a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor.

    They do not love one another because they do not love themselves."

    -Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse Five

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    i was reading somewhere that top 3% of people control 90% of the money in US

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    If people would stop living about their means and trying to keep up with the "Jones", I think we would be better off. We are a country of greed.

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    Which nation was it again that has a much higher per capita income? I wanna move there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf View Post
    Which nation was it again that has a much higher per capita income? I wanna move there.
    i believe it is Luxembourg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Imosted View Post
    i believe it is Luxembourg
    what was / is it in terms of USD any idea?

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    i was wrong but u still wanna go to luxembourg u dotn wanna live in Qatar:P
    1-Qatar 88.232
    2- Luxembourg 80304
    6-US 47.123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Imosted View Post
    i was reading somewhere that top 3% of people control 90% of the money in US
    Or, "wealth."

    Also, the Ginni Index (Income Gap) has been increasing for decades and is the highest in the industrialized world. The middle class has been shrinking since the 1970s.

    All the hallmarks of a banana republic.
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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    Poor by what standard?

    I grew up as poor as you can get in this country. My mom didn't even take government assistance. I would go without food for a day (sometimes a day and a half). It sucked, but I never starved so much that my life was in jeopardy. My life was never in jeopardy either. There were always police around to keep me safe.

    In other countries, people die from starvation and have bands of thieves take their stuff.

    One persons "poor" is another's decent standard of living.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DOMS View Post
    Poor by what standard?

    I grew up as poor as you can get in this country. My mom didn't even take government assistance. I would go without food for a day (sometimes a day and a half). It sucked, but I never starved so much that my life was in jeopardy. My life was never in jeopardy either. There were always police around to keep me safe.

    In other countries, people die from starvation and have bands of thieves take their stuff.

    One persons "poor" is another's decent standard of living.
    You missed the point....more like ignored it.

    The gap from rich to poor is huge in America and the myth of wealth is even bigger. No one said being poor in America was as bad as Mexico or India, but it is worse than in most other industrilazed nations.


    Kurt Vonnegut's quote is not so much about poverty in America, but rather more about the type and impression of poverty. It also speaks to the massive wealth in America....wealth that comes from tax dollars, being used for war rather then making the nation better for all it's people. Yes war is great for the top 5% but it is of no use to the rest of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeForemanRules View Post
    You missed the point....more like ignored it.
    I didn't miss, I was just addressing the part that sounded the dumbest.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeForemanRules View Post
    The gap from rich to poor is huge in America and the myth of wealth is even bigger.
    I'd rather live in a country with a large/poor gap where you have the most control over your destiny, than live in an "even" country you have much less control/options.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeForemanRules View Post
    No one said being poor in America was as bad as Mexico or India, but it is worse than in most other industrilazed nations.
    Most other "industrialized" nations (what you really mean is Western) are nothing like the US. Which leads to so many stupid comparisons.

    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeForemanRules View Post
    Kurt Vonnegut's quote is not so much about poverty in America, but rather more about the type and impression of poverty. It also speaks to the massive wealth in America....wealth that comes from tax dollars, being used for war rather then making the nation better for all it's people. Yes war is great for the top 5% but it is of no use to the rest of us.
    I can get behind some of that.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DOMS View Post
    I didn't miss, I was just addressing the part that sounded the dumbest.
    There was no part about that, you just made it up or assumed.



    I'd rather live in a country with a large/poor gap where you have the most control over your destiny, than live in an "even" country you have much less control/options.
    That is another topic but in short, America is not the most free nation in the world at all. That is propaganda.


    Most other "industrialized" nations (what you really mean is Western) are nothing like the US. Which leads to so many stupid comparisons. I am not going to get into a terminology debate. If you can prove my post wrong then do so, changing the subject is a worthless thing to do.


    I can get behind some of that.
    All of it is true so I can see why you can get behind it.

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    The poor in the US aren't the same as the poor in, say, Zimbabwe. So that makes it ok?

    DOMS, it sucks that you grew up that way. In this country that sort of thing shouldn't happen, such is the vast wealth we have here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    The poor in the US aren't the same as the poor in, say, Zimbabwe. So that makes it ok?

    DOMS, it sucks that you grew up that way. In this country that sort of thing shouldn't happen, such is the vast wealth we have here.
    Wealth used for war and bombs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeForemanRules View Post
    Wealth used for war and bombs.
    Lady liberty approves your comment
    Quote Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
    I dig their music. Mariachi is good, and flamenco is the shit, although flamenco is all over the place. I use to hate Mexicans until I left my hillbilly land, and was able to form my own opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeForemanRules View Post
    Wealth used for war and bombs.
    I shudder to think how much of taxpayer money has gone to:

    1. Military Industrial Complex Corporations.

    2. Foreign governments to prop up their dictatorships.

    3. Pentagon

    4. Foreign wars (which includes #3).
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOMS View Post
    Poor by what standard?

    I grew up as poor as you can get in this country. My mom didn't even take government assistance. I would go without food for a day (sometimes a day and a half). It sucked, but I never starved so much that my life was in jeopardy. My life was never in jeopardy either. There were always police around to keep me safe.

    In other countries, people die from starvation and have bands of thieves take their stuff.

    One persons "poor" is another's decent standard of living.
    God forbid every US family doesn't have a 60" TV, a Wii, 4 iPhones, 3 iPads, $200/mo satellite, 2 new SUVs and a 3000 sq/ft home. Boo Hoo!

    In life there are winners and there are losers, contrary to popular belief.

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    we just had china lend us a couple of trillion,our deficit alone to them exceeds 11 trillion,our dollar is at its lowest,the euro is significantly higher for the past 5-6 yrs were by far the wealthiest nation,china and the saudies,are going to own this country..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Imosted View Post
    i was reading somewhere that top 3% of people control 90% of the money in US
    that along with about 85-90% of the stocks on Wall street, which is why it's is totally self-serving market.

    also

    The 300 richest people in the world have more combined wealth than the poorest 3.5B combined.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeForemanRules View Post
    "
    They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves.

    This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times."
    What ivory tower socialist bullshit - the poor blame the rich like it's going out of style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by troubador View Post
    What ivory tower socialist bullshit - the poor blame the rich like it's going out of style.
    you are delusional. in the US losses to big businesses (mainly the self-serving Wall Street banks) are socialized while all of the gains are privatized and you call this capitalism?
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    It would not bother me one bit IF 10% of the people controlled 90% of the wealth. If you look at any organization, you have the 80/20 rule. 20% of the people actually do 80% of the actual work, while the other 80% get a free ride. Most any society should be expected to operate in much the same manner.

    I hate to burst your bubble however, but that claim you pulled outta your ass is just not true. As much as many of you might want to believe that the USA is just as unfair and on par with a latin american banana republic, 10% doesn't control 90%. Even if it were the case, wtf would want to live in a socialist dictatorship like Cuba where the govt confiscates 100% of it and distributes the same 10% to the public.

    The top-earning 5 percent of taxpayers (AGI over $159,619), however, still paid far more than the bottom 95 percent. The top 5 percent earned 34.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, but paid approximately 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes.
    The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Smoothy View Post
    I shudder to think how much of taxpayer money has gone to:

    1. Military Industrial Complex Corporations.

    2. Foreign governments to prop up their dictatorships.

    3. Pentagon

    4. Foreign wars (which includes #3).
    just to give you an idea, US defense budget is 800 billion$
    Iraq war cost over 3 trillion$
    Us sends 2 billion$ to Egypt every year and 3 billion to Israel

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    you are delusional. in the US losses to big businesses (mainly the self-serving Wall Street banks) are socialized while all of the gains are privatized and you call this capitalism?
    You are countering an argument I didn't make. I'm not the delusional one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by troubador View Post
    You are countering an argument I didn't make. I'm not the delusional one.
    you stated that "the poor blame the rich like it's going out of style. "

    a good majority of Wall Street millionaires and billionaires made their fortunes not with their money but with other peoples money (tax payers) and by betting against the success of US businesses...
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf View Post
    It would not bother me one bit IF 10% of the people controlled 90% of the wealth. If you look at any organization, you have the 80/20 rule. 20% of the people actually do 80% of the actual work, while the other 80% get a free ride. Most any society should be expected to operate in much the same manner.

    I hate to burst your bubble however, but that claim you pulled outta your ass is just not true. As much as many of you might want to believe that the USA is just as unfair and on par with a latin american banana republic, 10% doesn't control 90%. Even if it were the case, wtf would want to live in a socialist dictatorship like Cuba where the govt confiscates 100% of it and distributes the same 10% to the public.



    The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
    personally I only have issues with the self-serving Wall Street financial system and the for profit health care system in the US.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    you stated that "the poor blame the rich like it's going out of style. "

    a good majority of Wall Street millionaires and billionaires made their fortunes not with their money but with other peoples money (tax payers) and by betting against the success of US businesses...


    Is that your proof that the poor do not blame the rich? Or are you still arguing against a point I didn't make?

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf View Post
    It would not bother me one bit IF 10% of the people controlled 90% of the wealth. If you look at any organization, you have the 80/20 rule. 20% of the people actually do 80% of the actual work, while the other 80% get a free ride. Most any society should be expected to operate in much the same manner.

    I hate to burst your bubble however, but that claim you pulled outta your ass is just not true. As much as many of you might want to believe that the USA is just as unfair and on par with a latin american banana republic, 10% doesn't control 90%. Even if it were the case, wtf would want to live in a socialist dictatorship like Cuba where the govt confiscates 100% of it and distributes the same 10% to the public.



    The Tax Foundation - Summary of Latest Federal Individual Income Tax Data
    The Pareto Principle (80/20) refers to 20% of the work a single person does as leading to 80% of the results, or 20% of clients leading to 80% of revenue. I've heard of it used to describe wealth distribution as well, but I've never heard of it in terms of worker output because you would never be able to analyze the data properly, each set of data would be in separate, non-comparable units. Sure, I would imagine that a business' revenue would weigh heavily based on the head of that company putting $5million in to it, but that is irrelevant if the 80% who do the shitty manufacturing work don't do it. In both scenarios the company would fail if the 20% or the 80% refused to do their part, so is it truly 20% of the workers do 80% of the work? Probably not, I may agree that companies typically overvalue what the execs are doing by giving that 20% of the company 80% of worker pay, but imo this is why most, if not all, American companies produce shit quality products.

    I imagine that in each department you could compare and find the % / % that rings true, but then in each department you would have a separate 20/80 rule. And, I defy you to find any single person who is the Tiger Woods of manufacturing who makes more $$$ than the shittiest ad exec in an organization. A person's income is based of their perceived value, and within that there is a dollar sign placed on the type of work being done, regardless of how good the person is at it. This is why in a given company you will never find a janitor who makes more than someone in manufacturing, someone in manufacturing making more than someone in sales, someone in sales making more than an ad exec, and so on. I guarantee the people making the stuff make far less than the people selling it, independent of their contribution to the company.
    Last edited by Dale Mabry; 02-10-2011 at 11:55 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by troubador View Post
    Is that your proof that the poor do not blame the rich? Or are you still arguing against a point I didn't make?
    I could care less
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    We live in a country where we have the opportunity to do anything this may sound narrow minded but my grandfather came to this country with $10 in his shoe because he was afraid of losing it he put all his kids through college and now he has retired to Arizona and has a multi-million dollar house and plays golf all day. This is why I love this country so much no matter where you come from how you were raised you have the opportunity to become successful as long as you work your ass off. "Tears will get you sympathy, sweat will give you results" I feel bad for all the kids today that expect to get handed six figure pay jobs by just getting a degree... work your fucking ass off!! and maybe just maybe you'll become something. Ill end it with this quote from Calvin Coolidge "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent. The slogan "press on" has solved and always will solve the problems of the human race." Thank you all if you don't like what I wrote i could careless...Thanks and God Bless America...

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