beta-analine free pre workout drink??? the role of lactic acid

[carmineb]

I know the newest thing since sliced bread is beta-analine , blood buffers, etc.... it is all the rage, I know. I also know top bodybuilders hae a very high level of carnosine in their muscles, all of which beta analine conributes to helping maximixe.

however, what beta analine does is buffer lactic acid , ya, you can go further, taxing yoru CNS a little less cuz you arent dealing with lactic acid burn or pain but I get the feeling that lactic acid is more important to the process of musclebuilding than many are recognizing today!

When I was doing 1/4 rep burns at the exreme stretch of certain movements some call those x-reps), wouldnt lactic acid signal the need of GH to be released and wouldnt it identify IGF-1 being created within a muscle at the points of need? I feel like we have gone the way of using supplements to create gains instead of maximizing our body's mechanisms to get greater gains to some degree....

ya, I just came around again and I am sincerely always learning more each day but I have to question this recent surge in beta analine pre workout products. i went to my local nutrition store, the guy told me he doesnt even have any products pre workout that dont contain the stuff. Sometimes I want to go for the burn.

I used to do 20 minutes of eleptical cardio before my workouts, (20 min aint alot) but my legs would go for a deep deep burn when I had to go reverse on teh machine and for a good 10 minutes of the 20, I wa under lactic acid burn, when I did slow deliberate movements higher reps I could feel it building up, even calves somtimes, doing 70 reps rest pause shake out for 10 seconds between pauses, i barely feel any or leg extensions even help with isometric at the peak for 5-10 seconds stopped giving me the burn i was after and I really feel that I am not getting the most out of the workout, not just psychologically but in real terms.

Maybe someone wtih more experience in this can chime in.... ok you wanna take beta analine for the carnosine, cant we take it when we arent working out or after a workout and wouldnt it offer the effect anyway?

thanks for your opinions...

 

[Rodja]

A few basic things first:
1. Lactic acid is a fuel used in an anaerobic environment
2. Lactic acid is NOT responsible for "the burn"
3. BA does not completely quash the production of lactic acid

You're really overthinking it here when it comes to this topic. Lactic acid has a role is metabolism, but it is not as significant as you're making it out to be. Being able to squeeze in an extra 2-3 reps due to the suppression of LA buildup and the subsequent hydrogen ions (this is what really causes "the burn") is far more beneficial.

Think of it this way: if you sprint at full speed an extra 2-3 seconds by using BA, then it is going to have a huge carryover into your training. BA also helps to clear out the metabolic waste from the blood quicker, which increases your rate of recovery. Instead of needing 2 minutes between sets, you may only need 90 seconds. This makes not only your workout more efficient, but also your body.

 

[carmineb]

what about the GH release? that was one of my major concerns. It is like, ok, I can squeeze out more reps but I dont get the hormonal response of doing 2-3 lessor reps with lactic acid....

 

[Rodja]

what about the GH release? that was one of my major concerns. It is like, ok, I can squeeze out more reps but I dont get the hormonal response of doing 2-3 lessor reps with lactic acid....

You entirely missed my point. You're still going to get to the point of failure as though you were not taking BA, but you'll be able to squeeze out extra reps as well. You get the best of both worlds.

IMO, extra reps is going to benefit more than a slight GH increase.

 

[carmineb]

You entirely missed my point. You're still going to get to the point of failure as though you were not taking BA, but you'll be able to squeeze out extra reps as well. You get the best of both worlds.

IMO, extra reps is going to benefit more than a slight GH increase.

well that is the question..... is it just a slight increase or is it considerable? And even a slight increase, would it send you into a much stronger anabolic state? There seems to be strong opinion wehre there are some trainers who specifically go after this release. If I were supplementing with PH or gear, I could say it dosnt matter since I am creating my own artificial anabolic state and the more I tear into the muscle, the harder I can go, the better, thus getting the best of both worlds effect.

It is a nagging quesiton, issue, I am not completely satisafied with yet in it's undersanding.

Put another way, is there "certain type of training" taht would benefit MORE from using beta analine vs certain training that would benefit more from much higher GH releases?

 

[carmineb]

HEre is an article I am reprinting, as an example of such:

Lactic Acid & IGF-1/GH/Prostaglandins

by Author L. Rea
Author of Chemical Muscle Enhancement

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[SIZE=-2]Publication Date: March 24, 2003[/SIZE]
Nothing in this article is intended to take the place of advice from a licensed health professional. Consult a physician before taking any medication.
Q: Mr. Rea , you mention in your book CME that lactic acid increase during working out increases IGF-1 and GH in the body , but also lactic acid truncates the last 3 amino acids off the IGF-1 and creates Des(I-3) IGF-1 which you say is 10 times anabolic than IGF-1 .
You also mention that lactic acid build is a very effective PROSTAGLANDIN release stimulator, so from this, it seems lactic acid is really helpful. But then why all these supplements to reduce lactic acid during training etc etc in the bodybuilding industry ?
A: Lactic acid is a highly versatile substance when we speak of its effects in relation to bodybuilding progress???or not. It has the metabolic duties of triggering GH release through bio-feedback, truncates intracellular IGF-1 thus altering its structure to become the far more anabolic specific chemical Des (1-3) IGF-1, and of course shuts down the ATP synthesis pathways necessary to muscular contraction (the last rep is a SOB due to a lack of local/working muscle fiber ATP and the lovely burning sensation partially due to lactic acid build-up.) What we need to focus upon is the issue of ratios anytime we discuss a chemicals value or the lack there of. In this case lactic acid elevation in itself is paramount to the hormonal cascade that allows us to recover and build upon our musculature. This should seem obvious when one considers the alteration of IGF-1 to a more anabolic hormone-like substance. But that is only a part of the anabolic equation. Lactic acid also increases PGF-2a and other members of the anabolic cascade. However problems can occur when lactic acid concentrations are elevated beyond that of the anabolic substances (in activity) that we all love and cherish and the inability to perform those final reps that act as the stimulus for repair and growth is certainly detrimental to progress. So the goal becomes to allow adequate lactic acid build-up that allows the anabolic cascade to occur without reaching a point of interfering with training capacities.
Many companies have attempted to capitalize on the lactic acid issue by making it a negative one-action physiological chemical. Consumers are taught that running farther and 5 more reps is a good thing without question. The truth is that we seek that perfect balance between damage and repair that allows for our best progress in whatever athletic goal we may have. This means that damage is necessary to trigger the repair and growth pathways and that lactic acid in the correct ratio to other body chemistry plays its role in both.


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[Rodja]

well that is the question..... is it just a slight increase or is it considerable? And even a slight increase, would it send you into a much stronger anabolic state? There seems to be strong opinion wehre there are some trainers who specifically go after this release. If I were supplementing with PH or gear, I could say it dosnt matter since I am creating my own artificial anabolic state and the more I tear into the muscle, the harder I can go, the better, thus getting the best of both worlds effect.

It is a nagging quesiton, issue, I am not completely satisafied with yet in it's undersanding.

Put another way, is there "certain type of training" taht would benefit MORE from using beta analine vs certain training that would benefit more from much higher GH releases?

You're being overly fickle on this. If you train like a PL'er with low rep ranges, BA won't do much, but BB'er style training will benefit from BA. You're still going to release lactic acid from a workout (provided you train in this range). The real question is if this actually provides any measurable increases in LBM or performance in the long run.

 

[carmineb]

Thank you Rodja for sticking with me on this issue... You leave questions which force me to continue my research into this....