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Cycle advice - National Qual. Contest

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bigiron

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DG806, I saw in your sticky we need to post the following in order to receive advice and prevent the post from being deleted. For compliance and good feedback... here you go!

1) Age - 28
2) Weight and Percent BodyFat - 205lbs & 15% BF
3) Years of Consistant Training experience Over a decade consistently
4) Previous Cycle experience - Moderate PH & PS thru college and 2 w/Test after the age of 26. (Longest was 10 weeks precontest with Test and Eq....very low dosages <300/wk test, and <200/wk eq.
5) Training routine and Diet - 4-5 days/week
6) Cycle Goals - Gain mass, come in leaner, and win my next bodybuilding show. (25-35 wks out)

Please keep your responses reasonable and scientific, and address the fact that I'm going into this show to win!
 
Are you asking a question? What exactly do you want to know
 
-16-8 Test enanthate 500 mg
-16-8 NPP 100 mg EOD
-16-8 Aromasin 12.5 mg every day
-8-1 Test prop 150 mg EOD
-8-0 Tren Ace 75 mg EOD
-8-0 Letrozol 1 mg EOD
6-0 Masteron prop 100 mg EOD
3-0 Halotestin 20 mg/d
4-0 Winstrol injection 50 mg EOD
 
Glycomann said:
-16-8 Test enanthate 500 mg
-16-8 NPP 100 mg EOD
-16-8 Aromasin 12.5 mg every day
-8-1 Test prop 150 mg EOD
-8-0 Tren Ace 75 mg EOD
-8-0 Letrozol 1 mg EOD
6-0 Masteron prop 100 mg EOD
3-0 Halotestin 20 mg/d
4-0 Winstrol injection 50 mg EOD
Click to expand...

Not too bad of a precontest cycle here ^ except that the test E is not going to kick in right away at weeks 16-8 when used along side of NPP which will kick in quickly. To combat this I would use Dbol for the first 3-4 weeks with the test E and NPP or just use Prop the whole way through which IMO would be a better idea. You may have to adjust the Letro dose or you could just use aromasin at 25mg a day towards the end near contest time. Proviron at 50mg ed would be a decent addition at the end which I would use in place of Halotestin. That is just my opinion on this cycle. This cycle isn't bad. I would just modify slightly.
 
I don't know about you but Test E I can feel in under 3 weeks. Pretty much everything I feel working in under 3 weeks from fast esters to long esters. Long esters seem to keep creeping up on me. You probably already know that no matter what the ester used the plasma levels of the released base increase dramatically within an hour after injection. Shorter ones just release it over a shorter period but the release is nearly immediate of a percentage of the drug no matter what the ester. This works according to laws of partition since essentially the drug partitions between plasma exposed and plasma unexposed. At some rate plasma esterase releases some exposed percentage as free base to the plasma. This occurs until the depot is exhausted. Given equal amounts of base, the area under the curve of short ester and long ester will be the same after complete release. This kicking in thing that people experience is the time it takes for the body to get all its "ducks in a row" so to speak. I feel front loading is nearly a complete wast even with something like dianabol since even that takes 2 weeks to "kick in". So in the end one is causing more stress on the system for a few days faster results.

If you don't like mixed esters then use test phenylpropionate with the NPP. Personally I have no problem injecting M-W-F using enanthate and phenylpropionate in the same syringe. In the end it's all personal preference. Hell, some guys inject everything once a week. Seems foolish but seems to work for them.
 
This is correct about test e raising levels but it doesn't build up and is not felt as quickly as prop or phenylprop. Incorrect with Dbol and frontloading in my opinion. If you believe that test E can be felt before 3 weeks why would you say frontloading with dbol takes at least two weeks. Dianabol is active the day you start taking it. Yes just like Test with an ester attached it will take some time for your body to adjust to it and you really start to notice it but it will surely be less than two weeks. For myself I notice the effects of Dbol within the first week. Usually after 4-7 days I can tell the difference sure it may differ slightly from person to person. My only issue with the NPP and Test E is the fact that running these two compounds together could case a drop in libido until the Test is in full swing. Not saying that you are not correct on your statement with test E showing a rise in blood levels within a few days of injection but the body is not adjusted yet. Now the Frontloading issue I disagree. Many people use frontloading for the same reason because it kicks off gains much faster than long estered AAS. We always seem to disagree about each others opinions Glycomann. Not on everything but on many small things but you know what they say Different people different strokes lol. There is a difference in what we believe and have learned. We are from different generations. In AAS there is not always a correct or wrong answer there is always a different method or style.
 
TGB1987 said:
This is correct about test e raising levels but it doesn't build up and is not felt as quickly as prop or phenylprop. Incorrect with Dbol and frontloading in my opinion. If you believe that test E can be felt before 3 weeks why would you say frontloading with dbol takes at least two weeks. Dianabol is active the day you start taking it. Yes just like Test with an ester attached it will take some time for your body to adjust to it and you really start to notice it but it will surely be less than two weeks. For myself I notice the effects of Dbol within the first week. Usually after 4-7 days I can tell the difference sure it may differ slightly from person to person. My only issue with the NPP and Test E is the fact that running these two compounds together could case a drop in libido until the Test is in full swing. Not saying that you are not correct on your statement with test E showing a rise in blood levels within a few days of injection but the body is not adjusted yet. Now the Frontloading issue I disagree. Many people use frontloading for the same reason because it kicks off gains much faster than long estered AAS. We always seem to disagree about each others opinions Glycomann. Not on everything but on many small things but you know what they say Different people different strokes lol. There is a difference in what we believe and have learned. We are from different generations. In AAS there is not always a correct or wrong answer there is always a different method or style.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with NPP and test E the way I dose it. I do not buy into this ratio bit that people preach about test and deca. I think it's total BS. It's more of a balancing act than that. In part it has to do with androgen stimulation in the limbic system. There is a delicate balance of steroid hormone rooted activity that must be in place for proper libido. For instance, to much DHT will over stimulate and lead to down regulation of signaling. To much estrogen and other signals are out of tune. Using say a ratio of 2:1 of test:nandrolone would put one at say 800 mg test and 400 deca. That much test alone can lead to sexual dysfunction in some users. In addition to that one has to deal with progestogenic activity in the neurons lining the hypophyseal portal system, which are progestin sensitive and regulate dopamine release. To much nandrolone and the Pr in these regions diminish dopamine leading to the localized prolactin release leading to sexual dysfunction. More to the point, the difference in free base release between enanthate test and phenylpropionate nandrolone I just don't think is a problem using similar doses of each. Essentially you have to find the blend that works for you. For me it has been 75 - 150 mg of each 3x a week depending on what my goals are. Add hCG and a small dose of AI and that seems to be fine for me.

The dianabol seems to lead to noticeable effects a little faster. I can only speculate as to why. the 17 alpha alkylates work a little differently. Plus 17 alpha methyl estradiol is a very potent estrogen and leads to a lot of water retention in and out of the muscle so one can expect tissue leverage. The 17 alpha methyl alkylates have activity at the glucocorticoid level. They modulate glucocortioid signaling so there is an anti-catabolic effect. These are 2 reasons why an oral may be more quickly "felt".
 
Great info so far! The first recommendation didn't mention D-Bol at all, and the others did? Arnold and many of the old school pro's ran this during prep, so I'm wondering if I should keep this in until ~8 weeks out. Also, I'm way more than 16 weeks out from show, but am considering running a cycle now, through the competition this time since I want to come in 100%.
 
Running a cycle too far out might not give you what you want. One thing it would do is give you a much harder time trying to recover. 16 weeks is plenty of time. If this cycle isn't enough maybe you aren't ready to compete yet. If you still have time to kill til you start your cycle start to work on bringing your bodyfat down now and getting your diet ready for contest prep.
 
TGB1987 said:
Running a cycle too far out might not give you what you want. One thing it would do is give you a much harder time trying to recover. 16 weeks is plenty of time. If this cycle isn't enough maybe you aren't ready to compete yet. If you still have time to kill til you start your cycle start to work on bringing your bodyfat down now and getting your diet ready for contest prep.
Click to expand...

I've competed once before and placed very well for having zero experience in a major, non-tested contest. My last (and first) precontest cycle was only 10 weeks. Not to be rude, but you really need to ask more questions before you make statements that are total BS like, "If this cycle isn't enough, maybe you aren't ready to compete yet." I completely agree about the cautionary aspect with individuals who are a certain age, have a low/moderate experience, etc, but I'm no spring chicken and am training to win, not half ass something...
 
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First of all what i meant by the statement "If this cycle isn't enough, maybe you aren't ready to compete yet" is that no amount of drugs can win you a show. You need to be more concentrated on Diet and training to win a contest. We can not just give you a magical cycle that will win the contest for you. If that was the case everyone would use it. Not saying that is exactly what you think but you come here and ask a broad question and myself and Glycomann take the time to give you what we think would be best and you come off with the bright idea to cycle from over 20 weeks out to the show. That is not the answer. That being said The cycle Glycomann provided is much more advanced than any cycle you have run to date. Looking at your cycle experience here you are a novice and the cycle provided is advanced. There is absolutely no reason why this would not be enough for you. Even though there are things I would tweak here that I stated above those are my preferences that work for me. They may not be the same for Glycomann. Either way we have much more experience than you with putting together cycles and running cycles. You should take our advice instead of trying ot critize us for telling you the truth. We are not going to tell you to cycle until the show without time off or at least a time at a TRT dose. Running a cycle from 26 wks out til the show is going to put you at risk for health issues and there is no promise of winning the show if you don't have everything else where it needs to be. Your bodyfat % needs to come down if you want to win. I am done explaining myself here. I am not trying to bash you I was trying to help you and make you understand reality that drugs aren't the cure all. You can take it how you want. I don't appreciate your not listening to solid truthful advice. If you understand the precautionary view and you mentioned towards people with low to moderate experience well based on your cycle history that fits you to a T so think about what you want to do here.
 
Glycomann said:
-16-8 Test enanthate 500 mg
-16-8 NPP 100 mg EOD
-16-8 Aromasin 12.5 mg every day
-8-1 Test prop 150 mg EOD
-8-0 Tren Ace 75 mg EOD
-8-0 Letrozol 1 mg EOD
6-0 Masteron prop 100 mg EOD
3-0 Halotestin 20 mg/d
4-0 Winstrol injection 50 mg EOD
Click to expand...


Based upon his limited cycle experience and low doses of previous AAS, I would say that this is overkill.

TGB is right to say that you need to focus more on your diet and training to help you dial in for your contest. Drugs are not a magic solution to the complex discipline known as bodybuilding. With your limited AAS experience, there is no reason why a simple Test prop, Tren A and winstrol cycle will not get you prepared for a contest, IF your diet and training are dialed-in. Just my 0.2, take it or leave it...
 
Ok, I'm in the early stages of contest prep and want to apologize to TGB and Glycomann if I came off harsh. My only point about the duration is that I know many amateurs and national level competitors who go 12-18 months on without breaks, and have heard some pros stay on for years without coming off. Can't speak personally if this is true, but seems to be based on what I've heard out there.

Anyhow, I'm gradually starting to bring my weight down for competition and am running test @ 600/wk, eq @ 600/wk (no anti-e's, thermo's, etc)...also, they're u.g. and feel underdosed for being 1.2g/wk.

Here is my current plan that I would love for you vets to modify, pick apart etc. For the last six weeks I was thinking:

-Cut the Test E down to 300/wk
-Cut the EQ down to 300/wk
-Prop 150 week
-Tren Ace 150 week
-Masteron 150 week
-T3 (not sure how I want to dose this?)
-Clen (not sure how I want to dose this?)
-Letro (1mg/day?)
-I have heard taking 2 or maybe even three anti-estrogens are good during the final weeks to make sure all receptors have been locked on to prevent estrogen. Open to taking more, but want you guys to let me know!!

Also, if I can get some tren e, would this be okay to throw in or does it need to be tren ace? I've heard from many that test is test, tren is tren, etc, so I'm curious why the shorter esters are encouraged by many during the last weeks. Hope to hear back soon and will appreciate any feedback!
 
Only if it's labled a "natural" competition. And if it's a nationals qualifier, then it's definitely not gonna be tested
 
Well, that's understandable. Some adderall, or coke would giva a chess player the edge that they need to dominate lol.
 
Trying to keep a serious thread here, so please take your side conversations elsewhere. TGB / Glycomann, any thoughts?
 
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simple precontest

from 10 weeks out
700mg test prop EW (ED injects)
350mg tren ace EW (ed inject)
350mg master prop (ed inject)

run injects thru wed before saturday show
start orals at 6 weeks out of either 50-100mg winny ED or 40mg halotestin ED

last 30 days nolvadex or aromasin to drop water

this is my approach anyway.....no diuretics


now none of this matters if your diet isn't spot on.......
 
Why the switch from aromasin to letro? What about some caber or prami for the 19-nors? No need to go all crazy like has already been stated.
 
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