Should I bulk or cut (please help!!)

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  1. #1
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    Should I bulk or cut (please help!!)






    I simply cannot figure what to do.

    My current stats/story are as followed:

    24 years old, 6 ft tall, 185 pounds

    I went through an ED about a year ago and lost all my muscle mass. I dropped from 220 to 170 extremely fast. After that I developed binge eating habits due to emotional issues and gained from 170 to 185 over the course of about a year. I have managed to get my binging under control for the most part with appropriate help but I am stuck in a rut as to what to do now. I feel fat but I have no muscle mass. If I cut, I'm going to be skinny fat. If I bulk, I'll get fatter but get more muscle.

    I started lifting about 3 months ago. Here are pictures prior to me lifting at roughly 175-180:

    http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/3056/45929625.jpg
    http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9798/15515252.jpg
    http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9783/64822223.jpg
    http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/4660/32811146.jpg

    Here's pictures of me yesterday at 185:

    http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4969/now01.jpg
    http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/2884/now02.jpg
    http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9224/now03p.jpg
    http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/5710/now04.jpg

    I am not looking for sympathetic answers or anything. If you were in my shoes with the above physique, what would you do (besides laughing at yourself). Would you cut or bulk?

  2. #2
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    pics don't show dude.

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    pics dont show... but if you have no muscle to cut than u cant cut because theres nothing to cut. so i would bulk then cut...just make sure your diet is on track... go to the diet section and post your situation and wait for a young lady named built to respond.. and do what she says... imho

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    You should bulk, you should be able to gain the muscle you lost back pretty fast and you probably won't gain that much fat. If I was you I would bulk back to 220 or whatever you were before, and then cut. Shouldn't take as long for you as someone who was never 220. I assume you meant you were muscular at 220.

  6. #6
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    You would look 10x better if you got some of that goodam hair! lol

    +1 for bulking.

    But slowly ramp up your cals, +200-300 above maintenance at first, then maybe another 100 every few weeks, don't go daft and eat everything in sight. Been there, done that.....not a good look.

    It's all about patience, if you're 8-10lbs heavier in 3 months then you've done a good job. Anymore and you'll have gained more fat than you think/realise.

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    I agree with hench except about how fast you will gain weight, but only because you already had a lot more muscle mass. It comes back way faster than building new muscle.

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    All points here are valid. That being said, coming off an eating disorder like you are, eat in such a way as to gain very very slowly or you're going to panic when you see the scale go up. It's going to take you a while to learn that you really do have dominion over what you weigh, and while you learn that, you'll harden up and get progressively stronger - and just a little bigger, but in the right places.

    That would be my advice anyway. I don't know you, and you may not have the same kinds of issues others with eating disorders sometimes do. I want to see you succeed and I think you will, if you let yourself.

    Good luck.
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    PS what's the plan for your diet and training?
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    Whats the plan for the Hair removal. Sweaters arent in style anymore. lol.
    Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder but dont nobody wanna lift this heavy ass weight. R.C.

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    This is the routine I am following:

    4 Day Power Muscle Burn Workout Split | Muscle & Strength

    I really am just scared as hell to try and bulk. I feel fat, overweight, and disgusting as is so I am intensely worried about fat gain. I feel more in control of things if I am cutting instead. I have tried to bulk in the past but end up stopping because I felt too fat.

    By the way, what do you guys think of my current shape. Would you consider me fat, average, a little overweight?

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    I would get fit first, plenty of cardio and lifting. Eat clean foods to slightly below maintenence. Have one day where you eat well-above maintenece and have a day off training. More of a recomp - both muscle gain and fat loss rates are much lower, but you'll feel good both physically and mentally. Definately get some hair removal.
    TheCaptn' is not a registered proctologist. His post are for his amusement only. Please seek proper medical advice if symptoms persist.


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    Quote Originally Posted by divfan80 View Post
    I really am just scared as hell to try and bulk. I feel fat, overweight, and disgusting as is so I am intensely worried about fat gain. I feel more in control of things if I am cutting instead. I have tried to bulk in the past but end up stopping because I felt too fat.

    By the way, what do you guys think of my current shape. Would you consider me fat, average, a little overweight?
    My opinion of your current shape is easily average.

    Look, Rome wasn't built in a day. You are facing some hurdles, and your are jumping them one by one. Take a victory lap, you are young, and have plenty of time to continue to be better and meet goals. Get to the gym, work on form, keep a journal both for the gym and the kitchen. For a month or so, don't worry about a bulk or cut. Keep your chin up, keep your journal up, you will get to the end of the road.

    I'm not going to comment on your routine, others are better qualified.

    And tell the hair phobes to pound sand........

  14. #14
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    All out of sand
    Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder but dont nobody wanna lift this heavy ass weight. R.C.

  15. #15
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    Shave first and you'll cut 10 lbs! Then bulk. Plus you'll look more muscular when you're hairless.
    Ban 2 1/2 's !!!!!!
    --------------------------------------------
    Some Oooold Pics. All Natural. More to come soon...Still all natural

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    The split looks great - heavy compounds throughout.

    How about you do that, maybe do a little cardio on two of your non-lifting days, and let's start working out your diet.

    What's your current diet plan? Can you describe it now? Include grams protein, carb and fat, and a rough outline of your meals and their timing. What is your biggest issue with food right now, and when do you get hungry during the day?
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    yeah bro get a wax, you'll definitely look alot younger & vascular IMO.

    & your really not even fat, not even skinny fat, slow bulk up to 200, fill up that loose skin & you'll look 10x better

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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    The split looks great - heavy compounds throughout.

    How about you do that, maybe do a little cardio on two of your non-lifting days, and let's start working out your diet.

    What's your current diet plan? Can you describe it now? Include grams protein, carb and fat, and a rough outline of your meals and their timing. What is your biggest issue with food right now, and when do you get hungry during the day?
    My diet is all over the place. I have a kickass workout routine but my diet sucks. One week I decide I'm going to cut, the next week I decide I'm going to bulk. I have no idea what to do. Right now I really want to bulk but I am scared to eat more because of fat gain. I just had a huge messup on my diet. I just binged three days in a row. I am not talking about just binging but like 4,000 to 5,000 calorie days. Now I feel like cutting with a PSMF diet this coming week to lose the weight I've gained and then trying to bulk again..

    Personally, I think I look like crap. I think I'm in a lose lose situation. If I cut, I'll look the same but thinner. If I bulk, I'll look the same but with bigger arms and a fatter stomach. I think at this point I would rather just do my weight training program and lots of cardio in a calorie deficit and just lose like 15 pounds.

  19. #19
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    I eat more calories than that every day when I bulk, 4,000 is probably about where you need to be at.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by divfan80 View Post
    My diet is all over the place. I have a kickass workout routine but my diet sucks. One week I decide I'm going to cut, the next week I decide I'm going to bulk. I have no idea what to do. Right now I really want to bulk but I am scared to eat more because of fat gain. I just had a huge messup on my diet. I just binged three days in a row. I am not talking about just binging but like 4,000 to 5,000 calorie days. Now I feel like cutting with a PSMF diet this coming week to lose the weight I've gained and then trying to bulk again..

    Personally, I think I look like crap. I think I'm in a lose lose situation. If I cut, I'll look the same but thinner. If I bulk, I'll look the same but with bigger arms and a fatter stomach. I think at this point I would rather just do my weight training program and lots of cardio in a calorie deficit and just lose like 15 pounds.
    Okay, I understand completely - I'm a woman and I've been fat; I moderate a board started by a bunch of fat - and formerly fat - women who were trying to figure out the same balance point you're coming from. It's scary starting that first bulk after dropping a lot of weight and especially while working through an eating disorder. I might be able to offer some small assistance there. You're binging because the prolonged starvation left you with PTSD. I don't want you to go hungry for a while, okay? I don't want you to bulk either. You need to get maintenance worked out.


    Can you please describe what you try to eat - meal by meal - and also describe where you fuck up? I might be able to help you with some suggestions if you do that.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by triplstep View Post
    My opinion of your current shape is easily average.

    Look, Rome wasn't built in a day. You are facing some hurdles, and your are jumping them one by one. Take a victory lap, you are young, and have plenty of time to continue to be better and meet goals. Get to the gym, work on form, keep a journal both for the gym and the kitchen. For a month or so, don't worry about a bulk or cut. Keep your chin up, keep your journal up, you will get to the end of the road.
    +1

    couldn't agree more with this post, get back in a healthy routine diet and working out till you're to the point its second nature and no longer guess work- ie: restablish your discipline and keep your calories at maint. (once you figure out what that is), simply refine the "shape" you're in now (to include shaving). Once you do reestablish the discipline full circle then pull the trigger on cutting or bulking. Odds are you'll clean up a bit of the fat you see now as you'll find your maint. cals now but then you'll start working out again and body cal consumption will increase and you'll be cutting to a point. Then yes after a good few weeks when things become second nature diet/lifting/cardio I deffinately say start bulking. LITTLE BY LITTLE as allready stated "crawl, walk, run" don't go jumping cals by a K 3wks from now you'll pile on chub like no other, take it slow- its a marathon not a sprint. Remember when that time comes you don't have to bulk a 1lb a week, you'll mind fuck yourself into thinking your a fat ass again and all will be sabotaged considering your mind state I'd take it even slower than that.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by divfan80 View Post
    Personally, I think I look like crap. I think I'm in a lose lose situation. If I cut, I'll look the same but thinner. If I bulk, I'll look the same but with bigger arms and a fatter stomach. I think at this point I would rather just do my weight training program and lots of cardio in a calorie deficit and just lose like 15 pounds.
    Well, there's your answer. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you bud, I was pudgy as a child and when I start bulking I gain fat pretty easily. Plus I'm about the same height, weight, and bodyfat. But if we cut, what is left when we're done cutting?

    Like built and curlingcudys said, take some time to figure out what you need to do to maintain. You can even build some strength without a crazy caloric surplus. But you have to get past your mental block. If you're bulking you're going to gain some fat, but you try to minimize it by eating clean and not eating insanely over your maintenance. Plus, when you're ready to cut, it will be easier after you've added a couple pounds because your base metabolic rate will be higher. If you're interested, I have a couple motivational articles on bulking, just let me know.

    Ok, I'm getting off my soapbox now. haha. Good luck with whichever you decide to do!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Built View Post
    The split looks great - heavy compounds throughout.

    How about you do that, maybe do a little cardio on two of your non-lifting days, and let's start working out your diet.

    What's your current diet plan? Can you describe it now? Include grams protein, carb and fat, and a rough outline of your meals and their timing. What is your biggest issue with food right now, and when do you get hungry during the day?
    Currently I'm eating veggies, chicken, lean red meat, egg whites, lean ground turkey, and fish. I guess you can say a PSMF style menu but with higher calories (though not many more than a usual PSMF diet). Low carbs, low fat, high protein.

    I do not believe at this time I am capable of bulking. To maintain a calorie surplus ALL week round...deal with occasional binges...try to remain positive about myself/body image...maintain my current dating life...PLUS going out on the weekends with my friends as I do would be a recipe for disaster when it comes to my mental sanity. I would probably become near suicidal from all the weight gain.

    When I am consistently in a calorie deficit I feel much better about myself if I cheat or fall off plan because I have "room" to do so if the situation comes up. When you are bulking you will gain fat period. When you are bulking if you cheat too much you are guaranteed to gain more fat. It's a lose/lose situation for me if I bulk. I'll gain muscle but the fat gain will be greater.

    Right now I have been keeping my calories low while working out twice a day for over an hour each time. I am probably burning well over 3,000 calories per day, easily, with what I am doing. I feel in total control and that makes me happy, for now at least.

    Now if I could eat a surplus on workout days and a deficit on off days, I would feel better. Something like 3,000 cals (or whatever needed to bulk up) on workout days and 1,800 on off days would make me feel more comfortable. Unfortunately it seems to bulk up you must remain in a surplus all week round. So I workout M-T-T-F. If I could eat a surplus on those days and on wednesday/weekends eat less but enough protein and still make gains, I'd be happy. But that does not seem like an option. It seem slike I must stay in a surplus around the clock.

    This is the only thing I could see working for me. Eating a calorie surplus on workout days (Monday, Tues, Thurs, Fri) but keeping a calorie deficit (but eating 1.5g of protein per bw for muscle maintenance) on off days. Is it possible to make gains this way or must I be in a surplus week round?
    Last edited by divfan80; 05-10-2011 at 01:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by divfan80 View Post
    Currently I'm eating veggies, chicken, lean red meat, egg whites, lean ground turkey, and fish. I guess you can say a PSMF style menu but with higher calories (though not many more than a usual PSMF diet). Low carbs, low fat, high protein.

    I do not believe at this time I am capable of bulking. To maintain a calorie surplus ALL week round...deal with occasional binges...try to remain positive about myself/body image...maintain my current dating life...PLUS going out on the weekends with my friends as I do would be a recipe for disaster when it comes to my mental sanity. I would probably become near suicidal from all the weight gain.

    When I am consistently in a calorie deficit I feel much better about myself if I cheat or fall off plan because I have "room" to do so if the situation comes up. When you are bulking you will gain fat period. When you are bulking if you cheat too much you are guaranteed to gain more fat. It's a lose/lose situation for me if I bulk. I'll gain muscle but the fat gain will be greater.

    Right now I have been keeping my calories low while working out twice a day for over an hour each time.
    Please stop doing this. You WILL mess yourself up if you continue to do this on low calories.

    Quote Originally Posted by divfan80 View Post
    I am probably burning well over 3,000 calories per day, easily, with what I am doing. I feel in total control and that makes me happy, for now at least.

    Now if I could eat a surplus on workout days and a deficit on off days, I would feel better.
    Then do that.


    Quote Originally Posted by divfan80 View Post
    Something like 3,000 cals (or whatever needed to bulk up) on workout days and 1,800 on off days would make me feel more comfortable. Unfortunately it seems to bulk up you must remain in a surplus all week round.
    Okay, hold it. You appear to be unclear on the concept. Bulking means you eat more food than you require in a deliberate act to gain weight. While doing so, you lift heavy and hard, and pack on muscle.

    This means you must run a surplus ON AVERAGE.

    If you go OVER some days and UNDER other days, you can bulk if on average you're over, or cut if on average you're under, or maintain if on average you're ... er, average.

    Why not do that for now? Eat at maintenance - higher on training days, lower on rest days.
    Quote Originally Posted by divfan80 View Post

    So I workout M-T-T-F. If I could eat a surplus on those days and on wednesday/weekends eat less but enough protein and still make gains, I'd be happy.
    You will make gains if you eat more calories than you require, when averaged over the week.
    Quote Originally Posted by divfan80 View Post
    But that does not seem like an option. It seem slike I must stay in a surplus around the clock.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by divfan80 View Post

    This is the only thing I could see working for me. Eating a calorie surplus on workout days (Monday, Tues, Thurs, Fri) but keeping a calorie deficit (but eating 1.5g of protein per bw for muscle maintenance) on off days. Is it possible to make gains this way or must I be in a surplus week round?
    You need to be clear on what the word "gain" means. Gain means "eat more food than your body requires so as to ensure weight gain". It is impossible to gain weight without eating more food than you require.

    Now - if you try this "over/under" thing, you'll probably find you'll recompose a bit in a way that doesn't make you panic. So do that. I like eating and training this way, myself.

    What calories are you running on the high days, and what on the low days?

    What's your training like?
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    I have been following this routine:

    4 Day Power Muscle Burn Workout Split | Muscle & Strength

    My diet is all over the place..yesterday I have egg whites, chicken, and broccoli for breakfast. Tuna and broccoli for lunch. Whey shake, chicken, and more broccoli for dinner. Today is pretty much same thing but I had some oatmeal and a granola bar because I was craving carbs so bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by divfan80 View Post
    My diet is all over the place..yesterday I have egg whites, chicken, and broccoli for breakfast. Tuna and broccoli for lunch. Whey shake, chicken, and more broccoli for dinner. Today is pretty much same thing but I had some oatmeal and a granola bar because I was craving carbs so bad.
    Dude, please quit beating up yourself....Don't make me come through the monitor. You are eating no junk, good work.

    Slow and steady finishes the race. If I could rep you I would.

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    I appreciate all of the advice in this thread. I am also curious though from the pictures I posted if anyone has a guess as to what my BF % may be?

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    You need to eat ASAP!!!!!!! Your way to skinny for your height. Try eating 6 meals a day every 2 to 3 hours. Minimum 4000 calories.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NOPAIN View Post
    You need to eat ASAP!!!!!!! Your way to skinny for your height. Try eating 6 meals a day every 2 to 3 hours. Minimum 4000 calories.
    Okay I find that hard to believe. Way too skinny for my height? I am 24 years old, 6 ft tall, 185 pounds...that is overweight on the BMI scales. I do not think I am too skinny by any means.

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