IronMag Research Chems


First Cycle, concerned about joints

Results 1 to 20 of 20
  1. #1
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    US
    Posts
    941
    Rep Points
    36717674

    First Cycle, concerned about joints






    Hey newbie to the forum, I have been browsing IM for a few years though. I'm 25, 6'0, 224lbs, 14%bf, I've been lifting for 10 years, started out 130 and fat and have been getting into better and better shape up until a year or two ago. I've got a masters in human nutrition and I give diet counseling and own a restaurant. My diet at the moment is weight maintenance, 4,000 calories, 40/20/40 Carbs/Protein/Fat.

    I'm working on putting together a first cycle. My goal for this cycle is to get to 250 lbs in 16 weeks, and put at least an inch on my arms and 2 inches on my legs(the rest I'd watch for proportionally). I am not too concerned with body fat gain or loss, a few pounds either way is fine with me. I'm looking to put on size, and a little strength.

    I do have some joint issues that are really freaking me out lately, brittle tendons on my right bicep, knee and wrist pains, and I am looking for a way to alleviate them during my cycle. I have been recommended either 200mg EW Deca and/or 4iu five days per week GH along with the 500mg test c I plan to take.

    Here is the cycle I put together please let me know if I should change any doses or remove anything altogether. (and keep my poor joints in mind!)

    Cycle:
    Week 1 - 16 test cyp 500mg EW
    Week 1 - 13 deca 200mg EW
    Week 1 - 16 HCG 500iu EW
    4iu HGH 5 days per week (should i start this beforehand and/or keep this going after the cycle?)

    PCT(starting 2 weeks after last test shot:
    Day 1: Clomid 150mg
    Day 2-6: Clomid 100mg
    Day 7-28: Clomid 50mg


    Supplements I take:
    Creatine Monohydrate 10g/day
    Beta-alanine: 2tsp/day
    BCAA: 20g/day
    Glutamine: 10mg/day

  2. #2
    Registered User
    M4A3's Avatar


    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    The gym
    Posts
    835
    Rep Points
    62199931

    Quote Originally Posted by Calves of Steel View Post
    Hey newbie to the forum, I have been browsing IM for a few years though. I'm 25, 6'0, 224lbs, 14%bf, I've been lifting for 10 years, started out 130 and fat and have been getting into better and better shape up until a year or two ago. I've got a masters in human nutrition and I give diet counseling and own a restaurant. My diet at the moment is weight maintenance, 4,000 calories, 40/20/40 Carbs/Protein/Fat.

    I'm working on putting together a first cycle. My goal for this cycle is to get to 250 lbs in 16 weeks, and put at least an inch on my arms and 2 inches on my legs(the rest I'd watch for proportionally). I am not too concerned with body fat gain or loss, a few pounds either way is fine with me. I'm looking to put on size, and a little strength.

    I do have some joint issues that are really freaking me out lately, brittle tendons on my right bicep, knee and wrist pains, and I am looking for a way to alleviate them during my cycle. I have been recommended either 200mg EW Deca and/or 4iu five days per week GH along with the 500mg test c I plan to take.

    Here is the cycle I put together please let me know if I should change any doses or remove anything altogether. (and keep my poor joints in mind!)

    Cycle:
    Week 1 - 16 test cyp 500mg EW
    Week 1 - 13 deca 200mg EW
    Week 1 - 16 HCG 500iu EW
    4iu HGH 5 days per week (should i start this beforehand and/or keep this going after the cycle?)

    PCT(starting 2 weeks after last test shot:
    Day 1: Clomid 150mg
    Day 2-6: Clomid 100mg
    Day 7-28: Clomid 50mg


    Supplements I take:
    Creatine Monohydrate 10g/day
    Beta-alanine: 2tsp/day
    BCAA: 20g/day
    Glutamine: 10mg/day
    You're not planning on running an AI?

    You should run an AI for both on cycle and PCT. Aromasin is preferred, but Arimidex will work as well.

    On cycle: 12.5mg EOD Aromasin, or .5mg EOD of Arimidex.

    PCT: Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5

    Edit to add: Even though you are running a really low dose of Deca, it would be a good idea to have some caber on hand just in case.
    All statements provided by M4A3 are for entertainment purposes only. They are not to be mistaken as medical advice, or as advocating any illegal activity. All readers assume full responsibility for any use or misuse of this material.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    J.thom's Avatar


    Join Date
    May 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,859
    Rep Points
    69257400

    First cycle and you are running TEST, DECA, and GH? and no AI? FUUUUHHHHH

    yah dun goof boi

  4. #4
    - - - - - - -
    minimal's Avatar


    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    bout tree fiddy
    Posts
    1,022
    Rep Points
    80694232

    drop BCAA and glutamine.. waste of money if you're taking protein powder.

    i hear cissus is pretty good for joints..

    Just run test only.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    ELITE MEMBER


    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Unknown....
    Posts
    2,950
    Rep Points
    232731829

    Test E or C for 12-14 or even 16 weeks
    Simple PCT of 4 weeks.

    You probably already have this stuff coming or already have possession of it, so I would allow the guys with current experience to chime in.

  6. #6
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    101
    Rep Points
    960928

    I would think for your first cycle keep it simple. 12 week Test C or E and drop the Deca. Definitely add an AI of some sort.

  7. #7
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    US
    Posts
    941
    Rep Points
    36717674

    I considered adding an AI but I've never had any shred of gyno, and I have read that they may be bad for joints. Believe me I'd love to keep it as simple as possible. Deca and GH I wouldn't think of including in a first cycle if I wasn't truly worried about the joints. I've heard that test alone can be rough on them and I'd imagine test and an AI would be worse. I haven't ordered anything yet, looking for input on the forum before putting money out for anything. I tried cissus last year for around 5-6 weeks. Never made a difference, neither did the glucosamine/chondroiton/msm combo. From what I've heard gh or deca might help build them up since supplements alone did not.

    You guys sure test+AI followed by simple pct and no gh or deca for joint care? Bloating, decreased sex drive etc don't scare me nearly as much tearing a tendon.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    ELITE MEMBER


    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Unknown....
    Posts
    2,950
    Rep Points
    232731829

    I would have thought that the creatine monohydrate, with it's water-holding properties, would have helped out a bit? Last time I took CM, it was almost 10 years ago so I'm a little rusty on how it made my joints feel.

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    ELITE MEMBER


    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Unknown....
    Posts
    2,950
    Rep Points
    232731829

    I'm trying to figure out how the Test itself would be damaging? The only thing that I could think of is the fact that you are going to be lifting heavier and harder when "ON".

    Test does cause some water retention, so it should help out. Now if you threw Winny or a dry compound in there, then I wouldnt suggest it.

  10. #10
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    US
    Posts
    941
    Rep Points
    36717674

    Testosterone injections decrease collagen synthesis = bad joints. What to do? - Anabolic Steroids, Bodybuilding Discussion Forums - Steroidology

    ...is an article about test vs other anabolics on collagen synthesis. Says EQ is really good for it but I've never heard that from any of my friends. It's all just been test is great for mood and muscles bad for joints, deca is bad for mood great for joints, gh is good for joints and amplifies muscle building effects of juice. Is there any truth to that?

  11. #11
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    US
    Posts
    941
    Rep Points
    36717674

    @djlance:
    creatine promotes retention of water inside of muscle cells because the creatine receptor requires 2 sodium atoms to be drawn in with every creatine molecule, and both creatine and sodium require water solvate, (secure) them in the muscle. No no creatine or water is drawn into joints. I wrote a 15 page paper on creatine monohydrate as an undergrad hehe.

  12. #12
    - - - - - - -
    minimal's Avatar


    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    bout tree fiddy
    Posts
    1,022
    Rep Points
    80694232

    Quote Originally Posted by Calves of Steel View Post
    Testosterone injections decrease collagen synthesis = bad joints. What to do? - Anabolic Steroids, Bodybuilding Discussion Forums - Steroidology

    ...is an article about test vs other anabolics on collagen synthesis. Says EQ is really good for it but I've never heard that from any of my friends. It's all just been test is great for mood and muscles bad for joints, deca is bad for mood great for joints, gh is good for joints and amplifies muscle building effects of juice. Is there any truth to that?
    that article has been floating around the net and has no research to back it up. In vivo, test can also help increase HGH level, which will also help building joints.

  13. #13
    - - - - - - -
    minimal's Avatar


    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    bout tree fiddy
    Posts
    1,022
    Rep Points
    80694232

    Quote Originally Posted by Calves of Steel View Post
    @djlance:
    creatine promotes retention of water inside of muscle cells because the creatine receptor requires 2 sodium atoms to be drawn in with every creatine molecule, and both creatine and sodium require water solvate, (secure) them in the muscle. No no creatine or water is drawn into joints. I wrote a 15 page paper on creatine monohydrate as an undergrad hehe.
    what did you study?

  14. #14
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    101
    Rep Points
    960928

    I believe Glucosamine (sp?) is to help with joint issues. You shouldn't tear anything as long as you stretch and warm up properly.

  15. #15
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    US
    Posts
    941
    Rep Points
    36717674

    @minimal
    I studied human nutrition with a focus on heart disease prevention in undergrad and antioxidant bioavailability in grad. I've always been crazy about the fitness end too, just not as interested in working in it.

    @hawk
    I warm up, stretch, etc as best I can but especially the tendon in my right bicep is very thin compared to my left arm and I'm always paranoid that it'll snap one day. Glucosamine didn't help :/

  16. #16
    Senior Member
    ELITE MEMBER


    Join Date
    May 2006
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Unknown....
    Posts
    2,950
    Rep Points
    232731829

    Interesting. Have you thought about going to your doctor? Maybe he/she can refer you to a specialist so that way they can try to diagnose the problem.

    And yes, EQ is good for joints also...

  17. #17
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    US
    Posts
    941
    Rep Points
    36717674

    I haven't seriously pursued attention from a doctor about it, however I've asked my PCP and he would recommend weight loss to most people and that glucosamine helps some people but I probably would not benefit from either and I should take it easy. Been on and off of taking it easy. I feel like I'm maintaining them, however they just aren't growing any stronger.

  18. #18
    Registered User
    Winny_ng 24/7's Avatar


    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    US
    Posts
    128
    Rep Points
    3336693

    holy fucking first cycle batman!
    Train Hard or Don't Train at All.

  19. #19
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    earth
    Posts
    2,917
    Rep Points
    137490307

    If you are sticking with the 200 of deca your joints will be fine

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk

  20. #20
    Senior Member
    BOARD REP
    Digitalash's Avatar


    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    US
    Posts
    4,078
    Rep Points
    77554866






    I have some joint issues as well, and test didn't seem to help or hurt them any. I'm running deca next cycle pretty much for that reason alone. That seems way long for a first cycle, but IMO ( and I'm sure many will dissagree) you could run a low dose of deca without any issues. But it is STRONGLY reccomended that you use an AI, if you dose it right it will keep you in normal range which won't hurt your joints any more than they are now. It'll also prevent a ton of side effects, you say you've never experienced gyno but that doesn't mean you won't with close to ten times the amount of test you've ever had in your body. Not to mention acne, looking bloated as hell all the way through your cycle, mood swings, and it could also screw up your libido which is one of the best parts of being on cycle :P

    If you're dead set on doing this use .5mg of cabergoline every week, use an AI, keep your dosages low and shorten it more to 12 weeks. Stop the deca at ten weeks and stop the test at 12, start your pct two weeks after last test injection. I'm sure many will dissagree with this but I think if you're using a low dose of deca like that and the proper ancillaries you shouldn't have any problems.

Similar Threads

  1. VERY Concerned!
    By superlite17 in forum UncleZ
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 01-02-2012, 08:07 PM
  2. My joints are killing me on test cycle
    By ThisBigBastard in forum Anabolic Zone
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 02-11-2009, 11:45 AM
  3. Maybe I'm concerned about nothing
    By wannabfit in forum Anabolic Zone
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-24-2006, 10:08 PM
  4. Concerned
    By shiznit2169 in forum Diet & Nutrition
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 06-04-2006, 05:12 PM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 12-16-2004, 05:26 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
-->