This is not written by me. I'm just bringing it over here to share and discuss. Remember kids, high tren cycle should be reserved for experienced users.
I know its hard to wrap your mind around the concept at first, cause these boards have beat in to our head test, test, test.
I completely agree with test being in every cycle, but it DOES NOT have to be the base.
I have learned that 90% of side effects come from estrogen conversion, I think thats why I love tren so much actually, cause it is incapable of aroma.
we have to set up our cycle for the goals we want, this means taking into account side effects, previous dosages and goals.
As far as the side effects go, the reason you will see less sides from running low to a maintenance dose of testosterone is because aroma fuels other things like PGR and PRL.
So by eliminating excessive aroma by either using an AI, or a low dose test, this wards off other side effects.
People get tren dick from aroma, cause without it, i highly doubt your your PGR or PRL will go so high it gives you issues.
now if we look at something like a test/deca cycle, things change a little. This is because deca is much more anabolic than it is androgenic, so running a hefty dose of test to fill in those androgenic gaps, will give better gains, but it will also bring more sides as well, unless your very familiar with test and what dosages of an AI to run with the amount of test your doing.
Lets say i wanted to do a recomp, or even a cut with deca. why do we use AAS on a cut? to keep us anabolic, thats really the only reason. so if i ran 200mg test and 500 deca what will happen? low sides, not great for a bulk cause its not androgenic, but we will stay VERY anabolic and hold less water, plus it should help our joints due to lack of nutrition from a strict cutting diet. deca is a GREAT cutter BTW.
Now lets look at tren, since its not only 5x as anabolic as test, it is also 5x as androgenic, so why do we need test? we just need enough test to do the daily functions that it is responsible for, thats it. hell i know many people who run 800mg of tren with nothing else and their dick works just fine. as soon as someone gets tren dick i go how much test are you using? they always say a much higher number than tren. they actually have considered tren for TRT cause it does everything T does, just better.
So why not run no test? cause you will have libido problems after the cycle cause you will fuck up your DHT conversion.
so is that it? well here is the best reason to run low dose t with your tren cycle, they both compete heavily for the androgenic receptor.
But wait tren is 5x stronger so shouldnt it beat the T to the receptor? well yes it will. so in this case even if we shoot a bunch of T we are wasting it. on top of that, the more T you shoot, the more will get reduced to DHT via the 5 alpha reductase enzyme. this conversion % is dose dependent, this has been proven in TRT studies.
So DHT is 5x more binding affinity to the receptor, kind of like tren, so DHT may win. So why would I want tren hitting those receptors instead of DHT? well look at DHT derived AAS, they dont produce many gains.
So basically tren is king, and want as much as possible hitting those receptors over the T.
Ive ran this a bunch of times now, and its way better like this, and ive NEVER had tren dick once.
now for the tren dosage. at 350-500mg tren, i dont get real huge, plus remember we are not running nearly as much t as we usually do, so once you put that in perspective you will see its really not that crazy, as long as your VERY FAMILIAR WITH tren. so at these dosages here is what i see:
now once you go up to the 7-800 mg range, i see all that AND SIZE. you have to be very careful with big doses of tren for long periods though, i know people that have literally found themselves in the hospital after running that much for 8 months. I know others that have lived off the shit for 5 years too, so like i said, you have to learn what tren does for you.
I have a buddy who is just a monster, he has been juicing for like 10 years. he only weighs like 210 but he is benching +400 no problem. Im talking going to the gym, no spotter and straight up repping 400. he SWEARS the best way to run tren, for size and strength, is 100mg ace ED, and he NEVER runs much more than 300mg test. he just continues on his TRT dose.
If tren were to somehow get prolactin out of control, which is VERY unlikely, high prolactin can squash libido, this is why it takes forever to bust on progestins, decreased penis sensitivity. This is MUCH more likely to happen with deca.
We only have so many receptors in our body, roughly, they die off and re grow all the time. Different types of receptors are in specific areas of our body, mostly. androgen, estrogen a shitload of them. Once we fill up the androgen receptor the rest of the medication is wasted, it doesnt do anything.
Keep in mind Cobra that just cause your T levels are 2000 does not mean your using it. The first 1980 mgs gets gobbled up by albumin and SHBG right away, and that never hits a receptor. now you have the rest attaching to recptors in your body. it is really just a signaling system, you can only make the signal so strong.
Since I want the tren gains, dry lean huge vascular gains, I want the tren to attach to more recptors than the test right? its a synergistic effect in one nice formula, and the best one AAS wise.
So running 4-600 tren (i know guys that say the real size gains from tren are up around 7-800mg shooting 100 or so daily) with 300 test is great.
These guys run low dose test with it, just enough for normal activities, we dont need any anabolic or androgenic muscle building effects from it, we have the tren for that.
This will actually leave you less prone to side effects, since high prolactin is usually associated with high estro.
I've been running low dose test with tren for years. People absolutely run tren wrong.
I run 525mg/wk tren and 175-250mg/week test P with ZERO sides when I run tren cycles.
Most of the people on the boards that tell you to run higher test most likely have never run it the other way or even ran at all.
i have tried running tren 100mgs ed, but by the end of the 8th week it start making feel like crap. dizzy spells, breathing, and the feeling like iam going to throwing up every time i turn me head. forces me to stop.
what are your gains like on cycle like that? how long do you run it for?
Strong as a horse. I also get pretty lean. The test keeps me "normal" and the tren makes me a beast. I've used it for both cutting and bulking even though I like bulking with it better. I guess I just hate cutting on purpose. I find that when I bulk with higher tren, I get pretty lean either way. Zero bloat.
Also, maybe it's just me, but I have never had any sides when I run it like this. This includes night sweats and sleeping issues. I sleep like a baby. I've always been prepared for prolactin problems, they've just never come.
I've ran cycles like this for over 3 months before.
He gives off an idea about AR saturation that is unsupported because the more T you administer the more AR's your body makes.
Also bloat isn't always an hormonal problem. Diet can and does play a role in water retention.
Deca does aromatize but he uses it as his example. Also he obviously has never ran 500mg of deca weekly because he states you will hold less water. LOL!
Overall its an interesting read so I am not trying to pick it apart. I have run Tren higher than Test at the end of a cut and it works fine. I was injecting 50mg of prop and 80mg of tren ace eod. However I was on 1mg of arimidex daily to stop aromatization which is really the easiest thing to do. Run your T as high as you like and add an AI in the correct dose and you will be fine. Your body just makes more AR's so no biggie. Sounds like his concept of AR's got him a bit off track.
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I have runned tren without T. Actually it was my first cycle :P I ran 500mg Tren for 10 weeks and 16 weeks EQ @ 600mg. I had no libido troubles even after and not much sides from Tren. I don't really recommend a cycle like that though
A long time ago I ran Deca only with no deca dick issues and I felt like a porn star so those kind of sides were not an issue at all, off cycle was a slow recovery though. The cycle im on now is pretty low dose 300deca / 525 test p a week, and the gains are very noticable after only week 5, but Ive done 300deca with just 350test p a week with no issues, and I have to agree the gains were much much leaner. I already have my next cycle in hand and am going 350 tren a / 350 mast / and was going 525 test p but might switch it up to 350. Im going for a leaner look because Im a big dude already 6'4" 235 guessing 12% bf. looking forward to others input on this thread.
I was running the TEst Cyp just a tad higher than the TRen. The TRen was certainly responsible for the greatest strength gains I've ever experienced. Took a break from 8 weeks of tren and I'm not sweating round the clock quite as much and the reddish hue to my skin has somewhat dissipated BUT - I will run Tren again b/c it's amazing IMO. Next time, I will probably try a maintenance dose of Test such as 300mg EW and run the Tren 1.25 - 1.75x higher.
I am currently running tren ace at 350mg a week and test e at 300mg a week. I am absolutely loving the results. Never looked better in my life. I am only 4weeks in too. The changes in body comp is truly amazing. Tren with low dose test gets my personal approval. I have had very little sides, dry lean gains, and BF reduction.