Looks like college degree STILL pays off

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    Looks like college degree STILL pays off


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    This girl at my work has two master degrees and is working help desk, shit must suck.

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    Well, it would also depend on what you study too. Going into Law is just plain stupid unless you're going into top tier schools due to saturation.

    What did she study?

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    There's a couple issues with this. Obviously there's the old correlation vs. causation dilemma; this graph gives no indication as to what extent the degree causes these results. The other is the 'pay off' versus the investment.

    I've got two science degrees and work a retail job along side kids still in high school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihateschoolmt View Post
    This girl at my work has two master degrees and is working help desk, shit must suck.
    I've know so many girls with master's working low paying jobs like substitute teaching, teaching special ed., etc. Education is big business and it's getting fatter from government intervention.

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    Highly depends on the field, take renewable energy where I am. Not many people have been in it since it became really popular. I designed a PV system to run data monitoring at a small Observatory. I was explaining how it all connects to 2 Astrophysicists and they told me they learned more about the photovoltaic process from me than all their years in college(all I have is an Associate in Applied Science (focused on computing). What else I have is a vacuum mind for learning, I am always filling my brain with some new knowledge on just about anything, but mostly science related....

    It also depends on motivation, if you push yourself to learn outside of college on your own and just amass a lot of knowledge you then get your foot in the door somewhere you don't need a degree of any kind, but most of the time the degree is a good foot in the door help.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimal View Post
    Well, it would also depend on what you study too. Going into Law is just plain stupid unless you're going into top tier schools due to saturation.

    What did she study?
    Oh I know, I wasn't arguing with the first post was just saying it sucks but she has an education and business degree.

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    what the hell is a "professional degree" ? Law, Accounting, Medicine etc?
    TheCaptn' is not a registered proctologist. His post are for his amusement only. Please seek proper medical advice if symptoms persist.


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    It's been my experience that the more education you have translates directly to additional doors being open to you or job opportunities made available.

    High school diploma got me into the Navy, the Navy's credits and experience (and the fact that I was an enlisted man applying for ROTC) helped get me into college, the college degree didn't help me much at all but allowed me to continue my education as I pursued and then earned my teaching certificate.

    My job as a teacher opened up graduate level classes which are fully reimbursed by the school district. Education might not pay off, but I can't see a downside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theCaptn' View Post
    what the hell is a "professional degree" ? Law, Accounting, Medicine etc?
    Pretty much

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    Education might not pay off, but I can't see a downside.
    How about the billions of dollars invested by students and taxpayers. Student loan debt has exceeded credit card debt. That doesn't even include scholarships and grants paid for by the taxpayer.

    "The value of a thing sometimes does not lie in that which one attains by it, but in what one pays for it -- what it costs us." ~ Nietzsche

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    Getting a degree doesn't make you a good worker. It doesn't mold you into something businesses can use. It doesn't give you the drive to carve out a niche out for yourself. It simply opens doors for you, and allows you to reach your potential. If you don't have much potential, all the education in the world will not help you.

    Naturally, getting a degree improves your marketability. It tells employers that a person was willing to put up with years of nonstop horseshit in order to prove their worth by finishing what they start. You don't have to go to school to do this, but it is one method. The other method is to out work, out think, and out produce you co-workers, and hope you get noticed for it. Even then, if the company you work for goes belly up, you might have to do it all over again at another company

    I don't have much sympathy for the Starbucks workers of America who have degrees in the arts and humanities. Just what in the fuck did those people think they were going to do with that? I want to feel bad for my buddy who get his masters in communication, and is stuck in a low paying dead-end job at a theme park, but I just can't. If you don't know what kind of career you want, spend a year thinking about it before jumping right into college. That shit is fucking expensive.
    Last edited by KelJu; 06-15-2011 at 10:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    Education might not pay off, but I can't see a downside.
    How about life long servitude spent paying off massive student loan debts for the rest of your life?
    Fucking Determined!

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    Quote Originally Posted by troubador View Post
    How about the billions of dollars invested by students and taxpayers. Student loan debt has exceeded credit card debt. That doesn't even include scholarships and grants paid for by the taxpayer.

    "The value of a thing sometimes does not lie in that which one attains by it, but in what one pays for it -- what it costs us." ~ Nietzsche
    What are you asking?

    As a veteran I received the maximum allowable grants, I took out loans, worked as a resident assistant on campus as well as working two other part-time jobs.

    No scholarships, but thank you, taxpayer, for the grant money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
    How about life long servitude spent paying off massive student loan debts for the rest of your life?
    Not here. And, hey, at almost 49 "the rest of your life" isn't such a long time, I suspect.

    And though I did take out some loans, I didn't enter the realm of idiocy.

    I mean if someone has loans totaling more than one hundred grand? That's just outside my comfort zone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
    Getting a degree doesn't make you a good worker. It doesn't mold you into something businesses can use. It doesn't give you the drive to carve out a niche out for yourself. It simply opens doors for you, and allows you to reach your potential. If you don't have much potential, all the education in the world will not help you.
    .
    This. Some degree holders are academics with no place in the business world.

    I've sacked a phD holder, must to his outrage He had no concept of timelines, business requirements, or communicating to other human beings!
    TheCaptn' is not a registered proctologist. His post are for his amusement only. Please seek proper medical advice if symptoms persist.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    What are you asking?
    Nothing. I was saying the 'downside' is the huge amount paid into something that in many cases does not pay off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    Not here. And, hey, at almost 49 "the rest of your life" isn't such a long time, I suspect.

    And though I did take out some loans, I didn't enter the realm of idiocy.

    I mean if someone has loans totaling more than one hundred grand? That's just outside my comfort zone.
    For sure, if you can get someone else to pick up the tab, it is a great idea to get an education.
    Fucking Determined!

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    Quote Originally Posted by troubador View Post
    Nothing. I was saying the 'downside' is the huge amount paid into something that in many cases does not pay off.
    Well, that's life, honestly.

    Education if your goal is a certain salary or specific occupation, relationships, hobbies, sports, community participation, anything you can imagine.

    You're probably going to face many cases when things just absolutely don't "pay off."

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    Quote Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
    For sure, if you can get someone else to pick up the tab, it is a great idea to get an education.
    And?

    Do you find fault with someone setting a goal and reaching that goal by utilizing available resources?

    Do you have an objection here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    And?

    Do you find fault with someone setting a goal and reaching that goal by utilizing available resources?

    Do you have an objection here?
    There is no and. I think it is great if someone can make choices which would allow for their education to be paid as opposed to doing it like I did which was to borrow half and pay for the other half as I went.

    I know that I am an asshole, but there was no sarcasm intended there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
    I know that I am an asshole, but there was no sarcasm intended there.

    Oh.


    I'm a fan of sarcasm and always on the lookout for a good e-fight.

    Semantics, okay, but I wouldn't call my grants an example of "pick up the tab" as much as payment for services. Five years in the military qualified me for a much higher grant payment than my civilian counterparts. A girl I dated received around fifty dollars the one semester. D'OH!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
    Getting a degree doesn't make you a good worker. It doesn't mold you into something businesses can use. It doesn't give you the drive to carve out a niche out for yourself. It simply opens doors for you, and allows you to reach your potential. If you don't have much potential, all the education in the world will not help you.

    Naturally, getting a degree improves your marketability. It tells employers that a person was willing to put up with years of nonstop horseshit in order to prove their worth by finishing what they start. You don't have to go to school to do this, but it is one method. The other method is to out work, out think, and out produce you co-workers, and hope you get noticed for it. Even then, if the company you work for goes belly up, you might have to do it all over again at another company

    I don't have much sympathy for the Starbucks workers of America who have degrees in the arts and humanities. Just what in the fuck did those people think they were going to do with that? I want to feel bad for my buddy who get his masters in communication, and is stuck in a low paying dead-end job at a theme park, but I just can't. If you don't know what kind of career you want, spend a year thinking about it before jumping right into college. That shit is fucking expensive.

    Well said.

    A degree gets your first real job and experience gets the jobs after that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
    Naturally, getting a degree improves your marketability.

    I don't have much sympathy for the Starbucks workers of America who have degrees in the arts and humanities.

    Just what in the fuck did those people think they were going to do with that? I want to feel bad for my buddy who get his masters in communication, and is stuck in a low paying dead-end job at a theme park, but I just can't. If you don't know what kind of career you want, spend a year thinking about it before jumping right into college. That shit is fucking expensive.
    degrees have and will always open doors for most job seekers above the basic service type job. for a couple of decades a degree would get you in the door and the business would train the right person for the job. now it's going back to needing a certain type of education/training etc. as privatization increases more and more. I would highly suggest anyone with young children having them learn a 2nd language. I kick myself daily for not sticking with that, could have made even more easy money doing mortgages for spanish speaking households back in the day.

    can't tell you how many guys I know that got degrees in history, english, etc. but never went into education. don't know what else one could use those degrees for, don't really need one to write.

    attending a fairly prestigious college or university to make the median income is not worth it. better off attending community college for a couple of years then finishing off at the local university, etc. to save monies. unless of course the parents are picking up the tab but those days are over for the middle class, only families on the high end of the income scale can afford that.

    unfortunately many simply do not know what they "want to be" upon graduation from high school, I know I didn't. I started out with a double major in criminal justice and computer science. was going to go into LE as it seems for some reason all the other eagle scouts in my troop seemed to follow that path for some reason. an assault charge my sophomore year put the kibosh on the criminal justice thing so I went with the computer thing. the pro athlete thing would have been the end of me, I liked to party way to much when i was younger.

    it seems like more women from my experience are better at picking majors and knowing what they want to do in terms of a career, etc. right out of high school. so many of my girl friends from HS wanted to teach or get into nursing, most of them still in it today except for the full-time moms.

    vocational schools will be making a comeback very soon. with stagnant wages less and ever increasing inflation, less "should" be buying new cars frequently, keeping autos for the lifetime will be making a comeback. certified mechanics should do pretty good in the near future.

    business degrees along with some computer classes seem to be the thing in all the retailers that i service. new construction/residential real-estate is pretty much a wrap, surpluses of houses and not many with the monies to afford them. those with the gift of gab should get some type of business degree, etc. and get into sales, they are one of the few that actually make money these days.

    military service is still a viable option for those that score high on the ASVAB that don't want to see combat. it definitely opened up doors for me being ex-military in the private sector. militarism is only going to increase, it is the main tool for expanding globalization and capitalism by the US. unfortunately that is going to come at the expense of a continual budget deficit, that will never be balanced. but that's a topic for another thread.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KelJu View Post
    Getting a degree doesn't make you a good worker. (snip)

    out work, out think, and out produce you co-workers, and hope you get noticed for it. Even then, if the company you work for goes belly up, you might have to do it all over again at another company (snip)

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Pimpin View Post
    Well said.

    A degree gets your first real job and experience gets the jobs after that one.
    Out working and out producing your co-workers might seem effective, but won't always bring success. Worked as a material handler for a local printer. Didn't have aspirations other than to do my 8 to 13 hours and get out, but the managers (I thought) recognized my work ethic and attendance and offered me an assistant operator position.

    There was a large expansion as the company had picked up Reader's Digest as a client. Worked and trained as an assistant for about six months but was not suited/capable of making those machines (GaVehren tippers) run the way I wanted. The shift supervisors never had anything bad to say about my performance, but a machine like this (YouTube) drove me insane for a typical 60-hour work week.



    Back to what I thought the managers saw in me, I later heard that they went through the employee files to look for people with high mechanical aptitude scores on their entry applications or quizzes.

    To make a long story even longer, I'm here to tell you that application tests are BS. Or rather that mechanical aptitude does not always translate into mechanical ability.

    Worked as an assistant and did well enough, but it was definitely not the job for me. Gave three weeks notice and moved on.

    I didn't just up and quit because that would have been burning a bridge I'd rather have available. Too many people walk out of jobs and gain no benefit whatsoever from having been employed by a company.

    But considering the idea that the company simply looked at aptitude tests, I'm not sure that out working or even out producing a co-worker will gain you any advantage. I was noticed but was it for my hustle, attitude, and attendance or was it because I scored a certain number on a test?

    Definitely agree that experience will help you get additional opportunities. I was able to get a job at another printing company as a proofreader, I'm guessing, based on my service as a Navy journalist, having worked for the company with the Reader's Digest job, and also having been a proofreader for another company previously.

    Otoh, that guess might be all wrong because that company also had a pre-hiring test for aptitude/ability. Did they look at work experience or was the major deciding factor for hiring the aptitude test?

    This post is entirely too long, but the jaded meat of it is that a person cannot predict what will work. So many variables are involved. Education, experience, who you know, and more. A person has to weigh out all those factors, choose a course of action, and hope for the best.

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    Degrees don't guarantee anything. People with those get laid off just anyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post
    Out working and out producing your co-workers might seem effective, but won't always bring success.
    that got me run out of the last 2 jobs in the private sector here in vegas
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    [QUOTE=Big Pimpin;2342781]Well said.

    A degree gets your first real job and experience gets the jobs after that one.[/QUOTE

    One would think. I moved a couple years ago, (nicer area) and switched over to teaching in a new school district. I was pinked after two years because of my years of experience. Cost the district almost twice as much to employ a teacher like me with years of experience (and a Masters degree) compared to a newbie. If I would have stayed in one district, I would have had seniority (tenure) and thus been immune from layoffs. Very frustrating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt James View Post

    Oh.


    I'm a fan of sarcasm and always on the lookout for a good e-fight.

    Semantics, okay, but I wouldn't call my grants an example of "pick up the tab" as much as payment for services. Five years in the military qualified me for a much higher grant payment than my civilian counterparts. A girl I dated received around fifty dollars the one semester. D'OH!

    I agree. Serving in the military is a huge investment of your time and effort. An education should be part of the package deal, because I think it is only fair. Military personnel aren't exactly making bank most of the time.

    I am all for getting assistance with college. I mean let's face it, most educations cost as much as a 3 bedroom house. That is fucking ridiculous. There is no sense in it.
    Fucking Determined!

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    Just watched a "documentary" about this stuff.

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