Just wondering what you thought of this story. It kind of pisses me off.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/09/police.kill.dog/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/09/police.kill.dog/index.html
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Attn Law Enforcement members
- Thread starter I Are Baboon
- Start date
Well, Here is my take on the situation..........
They prob. got stopped because their vehicle matched the discription of the Armed Robbery suspect.
You notice the article did not mention what type of dog it was. I have a 55lb Pit Bull, and he is a med. size dog. And often wags his tale when he's pissed.
It's hard to second guess what the officer did, because there was no account from the officer in the news story. And usually the media tends to leave out some important details. I'm not saying the officer was just in what he did. But I will say, it smells fishy.....I think there is more to the story than what that family is actually telling.
In the story it tells of the police dept and the Highway patrol being involved. If the Police Officer was wrong in shooting the dog, it will come out.
It just seams there is more to that story.
They prob. got stopped because their vehicle matched the discription of the Armed Robbery suspect.
You notice the article did not mention what type of dog it was. I have a 55lb Pit Bull, and he is a med. size dog. And often wags his tale when he's pissed.
It's hard to second guess what the officer did, because there was no account from the officer in the news story. And usually the media tends to leave out some important details. I'm not saying the officer was just in what he did. But I will say, it smells fishy.....I think there is more to the story than what that family is actually telling.
In the story it tells of the police dept and the Highway patrol being involved. If the Police Officer was wrong in shooting the dog, it will come out.
It just seams there is more to that story.
That thing that gets me is that the story indicates the suspects asked the cops to close the car door so the dog would not get out. They did not. So the dog got out, wagging it's tail, and they killed it.
You're right though, there is probably more to it. Think about that family though, and now they have to live with images of seeing their dog getting it's head blasted off.
You're right though, there is probably more to it. Think about that family though, and now they have to live with images of seeing their dog getting it's head blasted off.
Well, that another thing.............A shotgun or a pistol is not going to take a dogs head off. That was one of the things in the story that told me the reporter was trying to sensationalize the story. Remember the reporter was trying to write and article to sell news papers. Sorry IAB, I don't trust the media with the truth.
Gotcha. That's why I was wondering what you cops/former cops thought of this.
I would be interested to find out the results of this investigation...........
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This is an example of why video cameras in cop cars are a good thing, not only to protect the cops from people, but also to protect the people from bad cops. As someone who is aspiring to be an officer (have my interview next month) I know there are people out there who abuse their authority and should be punished for it.
Good Luck PB.......I've been in your shoes......Its not fun going thru the hiring process.
IAB.........I hate to say it...but Im with IPMC on this!!!! (Not really)
As part of my last job...I had to check on "family" dogs to see if they were suitable for Customs Drug Detector work. Alot of these medium sized dogs would often wag their tails.....but its not the tail end that you should be paying attention to!!!!
If the Officer felt in anyway threatened...he had full rights to do as he did. The dog would, and I say with almost 95% certainty, have become aggressive towards the officers if they had in anyway made a move towards the owners.
I find it a sad story......but lets not let facts get in the way of a great news story!!!! I have seen the great job the media have done in the past to try to sensationalize a story.....to the detrement of the Officer involved!!! Unfortunately, the Officer is hardly able to stand up and give his account......not until the official investigation has been finalized.
As part of my last job...I had to check on "family" dogs to see if they were suitable for Customs Drug Detector work. Alot of these medium sized dogs would often wag their tails.....but its not the tail end that you should be paying attention to!!!!
If the Officer felt in anyway threatened...he had full rights to do as he did. The dog would, and I say with almost 95% certainty, have become aggressive towards the officers if they had in anyway made a move towards the owners.
I find it a sad story......but lets not let facts get in the way of a great news story!!!! I have seen the great job the media have done in the past to try to sensationalize a story.....to the detrement of the Officer involved!!! Unfortunately, the Officer is hardly able to stand up and give his account......not until the official investigation has been finalized.
So what do the cops say to the innocent family whose dog they just killed? "Sorry we pulled you over, and sorry we killed your dog. We know you are innocent. Our bad."
Did you read the story? The husband and wife asked the cops to close the car door so the dog would not get out. They refused, and the dog got out. That dialogue was taken right from the police video.
Yep read the story...unfortunately didnt get the video. I dont know what the ruling is over your way....but over here, the dog is the responsibility of the owner. If they said the dog was in the car, they are supposed to close the door...not the cops. As I said, I feel bad that the dog was killed, but what would have the outcome been if the dog had attacked??? Would the owner pay restitution for the officers injuries.......no.
But how could the people close the doors when they were handcuffed and on their knees? Is it that much trouble for an officer to walk over to the car and close a door? I thought it was an officer's duty to "Serve and PROTECT." It seems the dog could have been protected, and that did not happen.
I'm not venting or anything here, just trying to understand why the officers behaved like they did. I'm sure we'll learn more. This has got to be a public relations disaster for the local police.
I'm not venting or anything here, just trying to understand why the officers behaved like they did. I'm sure we'll learn more. This has got to be a public relations disaster for the local police.
At which point in the video did the owners let the officers know there was a dog...or was it obvious??? Not getting narkie...just curious!!! And as I am lead to believe...Officers request that the passengers of a car...get out and move away from it....did they not say then that the dog would get out??? There are three passengers arnt there? So one of them surely should have made an effort to let the officer know.................just asking..........
Well the video does not really show it. It's in the story. The family was ordered out of the car and on their knees, where they were then handcuffed. At that point, they mentioned the dog.
"Pamela Smoak is seen on the tape looking up at an officer, telling him slowly, "That dog is not mean. He won't hurt you."
Her husband says, "I got a dog in the car. I don't want him to jump out."
The dog then jumped out of the car and the cop popped a cap in him about four seconds later.
"Pamela Smoak is seen on the tape looking up at an officer, telling him slowly, "That dog is not mean. He won't hurt you."
Her husband says, "I got a dog in the car. I don't want him to jump out."
The dog then jumped out of the car and the cop popped a cap in him about four seconds later.
Thats what I thought too.
MSNBC.com, my friend. CNN does suck for video. There are plenty of other sites that offer the same videos for free.
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One has to think there is more to the story, because if there isn't, like IAB said, it is a diaster for the local police.
From reading the story the police are screwed. But it's one of the "had to be there" things to make a call on it.
It could have been an over anxious rookie. Most cops won't shoot a family pet just for grins...
mmafiter
Banned Member
It looks bad for the police, but since I couldn't see the video, I can only go by the story.
I suspect there may be more to the story, but it could be a simple case of circumstances quickly spinning out of control.
The story says the police pulled the car over because they suspected the family were carjackers. I would think the reason the police didn't worry about closing the doors and letting the dogs out is simple safety. If I suspected the car was involved in a carjacking, I wouldn't be to quick to run up and close a door so a dog wouldn't get out. You never know what's waiting for you in the back seat, which in this case were two pitbulls.
Another factor is when the dog got out, he was running toward the road. This could have been much worse if the dog ran into traffic and caused a huge accident where innocent people died.
Was it tragic? Yes. Could it have been handled differently? Maybe, but what do you want your police department to do in these situations. Before pulling suspected violent criminals out of a car should they ask if they have any pets in the car, and if so what is thier demeanor?
I'm not trying to take sides here, but I've been in situations where I was falsely accused of something which led to an investigation , and it is very frustrating and depressing. You ask yourself what's the point of doing your job, if no one seems to want to back your decisions.
I suspect there may be more to the story, but it could be a simple case of circumstances quickly spinning out of control.
The story says the police pulled the car over because they suspected the family were carjackers. I would think the reason the police didn't worry about closing the doors and letting the dogs out is simple safety. If I suspected the car was involved in a carjacking, I wouldn't be to quick to run up and close a door so a dog wouldn't get out. You never know what's waiting for you in the back seat, which in this case were two pitbulls.
Another factor is when the dog got out, he was running toward the road. This could have been much worse if the dog ran into traffic and caused a huge accident where innocent people died.
Was it tragic? Yes. Could it have been handled differently? Maybe, but what do you want your police department to do in these situations. Before pulling suspected violent criminals out of a car should they ask if they have any pets in the car, and if so what is thier demeanor?
I'm not trying to take sides here, but I've been in situations where I was falsely accused of something which led to an investigation , and it is very frustrating and depressing. You ask yourself what's the point of doing your job, if no one seems to want to back your decisions.
mmafiter
Banned Member
BTW IAB, awesome debatable post!
For anyone that wants to see the video:
http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=1076500&nav=1ugBDHrP
mma: The dog ran away from the road. If you watch the video, you can see at least three officers within arm's length of the door. There is no reason why one of them could not close the door. I understand the cop felt threatened, but this was a mid-size bulldog. It could have been stopped with mace or a thwap to the head with the butt end of the shotgun.
I understand the frustration of having your judgement second guessed, but that is part of any job. Someone who uses a shotgun in their job should act a little more responsible with the weapon, instead of capping a dog because he can. Watching the video and reading the story, it appears to be bad judgement on the part of the cop. He ought to suffer the consequences of that, as any of us would if we made an error on the job.
http://www.wkrn.com/Global/story.asp?S=1076500&nav=1ugBDHrP
mma: The dog ran away from the road. If you watch the video, you can see at least three officers within arm's length of the door. There is no reason why one of them could not close the door. I understand the cop felt threatened, but this was a mid-size bulldog. It could have been stopped with mace or a thwap to the head with the butt end of the shotgun.
I understand the frustration of having your judgement second guessed, but that is part of any job. Someone who uses a shotgun in their job should act a little more responsible with the weapon, instead of capping a dog because he can. Watching the video and reading the story, it appears to be bad judgement on the part of the cop. He ought to suffer the consequences of that, as any of us would if we made an error on the job.
I saw the dog exit the vehicle and charge a police officer as he was backing up he fired his shotgun.
They were at the rear of the vehicle......not exactly arms reach.
I'm not trying to start anything, but I gotta disagree with ya on the whole thing. (remember I own a med-size bulldog) Mace would have just pissed the dog off even more. (my dog has a steel bar as a chew toy). The butt end of a shotgun was not made as a club. And police officers are not taught to use that part of the weapon in a defensive tactic.
Now keep in mind that I don't have sound on my computer and I did not get the benifit of the biased media response to the whole situation.
DISCLAIMER: This post was not intended to flame or start any negitive mudslinging, this post was ment to continue the conversation of the great thread that IAB started.
Of course! Just a healthy debate.
Do you really think shooting the dog was necessary? About three seconds went by between the time the dog hopped out the car and the time the cop shot him. Seems like a knee-jerk reaction rather than a cop accessing the situation and thinking first.
Watching the video, I see two cops standing right next to the car door.
No doubt the media is biased about the story, but I think it's because the family did nothing wrong and their dog was shot. Had the family been perps, you probably wouldn't be hearing about this.
I thought I could hear the dog growling as he charged the police officer! I'd be scared and threatened too of that type of dog!
Originally posted by I Are Baboon
Of course! Just a healthy debate.
Do you really think shooting the dog was necessary? About three seconds went by between the time the dog hopped out the car and the time the cop shot him. Seems like a knee-jerk reaction rather than a cop accessing the situation and thinking first.
Look at it this way................
YOU are the cop standing there with the shotgun (covering the subjects while the other officers are trying to determin wheater or not they have the right people). And all of a sudden a Pit-Bull dog runs out of the vehicle and starts looking for the first person that is attacking it's owner. As the dog turns it sees you standing there with a BIG stick looking thing in your hands. It makes is move to you......And at that time you have to decide, shoot the dog and control the situation. Or don't shoot the dog and take a lets see what happens attitude. Possibly putting yourself and the other officers in danger of being malled by a pit bull.
If those people would have been bad guys, and the dog was allowed to attack the officers, my bet is you'd have a bunch of dead police officers because the bad guys would have taken advantage of that situation...............
NOW, I must say.......I own a pit bull...... and he is the sweetest dog I've ever had. I don't think my dog would harm anyone. But the perception of the public is that these dogs are man killers. Sure my dog has a steel bar as a chew toy, and he can hang on a rope for about 45 min's with out letting go. And he has more strength than I do in his med-size body. And his head is the size of a truck tire. But he is a good dog. You have all heard this before and I'll say it again. There are not bad dogs, just bad dog owners.
Really? I didn't think the audio was that clear.
IPMC, we can agree to disagree.
I can understand everything else the officers did: Pulling the car over, pulling the people out at gunpoint, making them kneel, cuffing them. I didn't think shooting the dog was necessary.
Being a dog lover myself, I don't like to see an animal killed either.