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The art of coming off AAS

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  1. #1
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    The art of coming off AAS






    ________________________________________
    One of the reasons I really like this site is that there are some mature older guys, and younger guys, around here that seem to have a lot of this game figured out and for the better. Bouncing around the boards I see most of the younger guys never coming off for fear of losing their entire physique. After a year of constantly being on AAS the fear quickly turns to the rationalization that they are essentially unable to recover. Personally I think this is a fallacy and if you review the medical literature there is ample evidence that my suspicions are correct. In fact, and I have offered this up many times, most of the guys I knew from the 80s and 90s that cycled are fine today. Some of them are still in decent shape and some don't work out anymore but most of them have wife and kids and good jobs or careers.

    Back then coming off was a taper and maybe some hCG and that was it. But I would say that 90% of the guys that used took time off. Maybe they didn’t do the mantra time on = time off but pretty much everyone took time off and that went from the average gym rat to National competitors. Everyone shrunk up and dealt with it. But you know after being off for a few months they/we would all start looking healthy again, the pumps would come back, and a lot of the strength and conditioning return as well. Plus a lot of us use to play pick-up basketball or were involved in other athletic activities outside the gym and that added a different kind or level of fitness outside of just pumping metal and some mild cardio. I feel those activities helped us recover as well.

    Enter the late 90s and everyone had SERMs and hCG and the cessation of the AAS was not as hard a crash. Still there was some discomfort and a sort of sickly period but we all dealt with it. Over the last 10 years or so peptides and SARMs came on the scene and coming off really became a post cycle therapy type of chemistry experiment. Adding in a little GHRP to the hCG and SERMs made the coming off period even easier. Hell one could add lr3 IGF-1 and make it even easier. Of course this isn't really coming off enhancers any more since most guys will be on some kind of drug even when off AAS.

    One thing remains fairly clear. Less than 1/2 the users out there today ever want to come off AAS and that is sort of sad for a number of reasons. Not least of these reasons is that coming off is easier than ever with all the choices of drugs and aids out there to ease the crash. In some ways it shows that some dread so much the loss of a little size that they are willing to increase the risk to health, seriously jeopardize their endocrine system, add many ancillaries to stabilize BP, heart rate and water retention etc. This is sad because if cycling is done with some level of responsibility one should be able to come off and within 6 months look and feel healthy and strong. Actually, to the general public, the athlete that is 6 months off AAS probably looks better to the public at large than when loaded to the gills at the peak of a cycle.

    In my mind it should be pretty easy to come off unless you are someone that has a legitimate reason to be diagnosed as hypogonadal. Mostly it comes down to making the decision and sticking with it. If you are lethargic, have high red cells, high BP, poor lipid profile, sexual difficulties, cardiac arrhythmia, excessive shortness of breath and water retention then you should automatically be thinking that it's time for a break. Then it's really a matter of sticking with the decision for 3-6 months. With NO PCT drugs at all back in the 80s and after a good stint of 4 months or so most of us would taper down for 3-4 weeks and then go off. Believe it or not the taper made the crash less harsh no matter what the current wisdom dictates. Even so, and this happens with PCT drugs too, we would have a crash and life would be a little uncomfortable for 8 weeks. The second 8 weeks the gym wasn't quite such a disaster. The third 8 weeks and most of us started to make natural gains again. These are the three 8s of recovery, Simple Simon really. That's how it worked. It will likely work in that time frame for most. So by 6 months off most can expect to be feeling pretty good. Now of course there are exceptions. Some people don't recover as fast especially if they are not kind to their body. Harsh compounds and long long cycles make recovery more difficult and alcohol and street drugs make thing much worse. Sleep rest training and diet are just as important.

    So what is a decent protocol to coming off? Well, there are a million decent ways to come off. a simple one starts at near the beginning of the on period. Use hCG at 250-500 IU every 2-4 days when on AAS. When coming off taper for a few weeks if you have been on for 16 weeks or more. Once off get off the hCG immediately and wait no longer than 2 weeks to start a SERM. It does not hurt anything to have a SERM building up as your esters run down. That just puts them in place at the exact moment they become useful. SERM therapy should continue for 4 weeks. If using GHRPs/GRFs stop them when the SERM therapy is finished and stay off them for at least 6 weeks to allow EVERYTHING to return to normal. Expect a crash. You will crash but you will start to recover in the next weeks and that will be felt in the gym as you begin to feel your pumps coming stronger and your strength returning. Keep protein high and adjust diet as needed. If you are older then it' may be desirable and maybe wise to start GHRP and or GRF therapy again at night time. This type of therapy is not very disruptive to the endocrine system and helps with arthritis, immune function and recovery whilst keeping GH and growth factors in normal range. If you are in your 20s or early 30s I don't feel this is necessary.

    Be smart. Take your time off. In the end you might have periods where you are a little small, a little off and maybe insecure but in the long run you will be healthier for it. If you know what you have been doing after cycling for a few years you should be able to get right back to your peak after 8 weeks back on and with a good enhancement protocol I really think that a smart bodybuilder can apply a good protocol for 6 months of enhancers and continue to climb the hill. The 3 eights of the off period may actually set you up for better growth. As we all know, the rested well recovered body responds best.

    G
    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
    Vincent Van Gogh

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    if you are a regular gym goer on juice, cycle, come on and off absolutley

    for people that are competitive bbers. AND THIS IS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE PRO OR HAVE THE SERIOUS POTENTIAL TO BECOME PRO. you dont really have a choice because you will never be at top cycling always coming on and off

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdtrain View Post
    if you are a regular gym goer on juice, cycle, come on and off absolutley

    for people that are competitive bbers. AND THIS IS FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE PRO OR HAVE THE SERIOUS POTENTIAL TO BECOME PRO. you dont really have a choice because you will never be at top cycling always coming on and off
    Worked for Levrone so I wouldn't say never.
    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
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    he cycled, however what he doesnt tell you is that he bridged in between, because otherwise body cannot, i repeat cannot maintain that weight of muscle. and if you dont have hormones to back it up you will lose it.

    and i want to fill you guys in on something else that you guys may disagree with

    the levrone reports, he is geared guys, he is still using now, may not be alot but he is using

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    and btw, levrone was great bber

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    Everybody takes time off eventually whether they want to or not. But hey to each his own. I've seen what I've seen and I've been watching for over 30 years. Some guys will stay on for decades. In the end there is a price to pay. It's not such a great price to pay even if you are the elite of the elite. This is not to say that everyone that uses is going to fall to extreme consequence,. On the contrary, these compounds seem to be fairly safe given the amount they are abused. But do them to extreme, walk around with extreme RBCs, high BP, strain on kidneys etc and there will be consequences. I don't see the point for 99% of users to follow that pattern when going off periodically and using responsibly will relieve much of that risk.

    You seem pretty bent on extreme use. That may be your choice but I don't think it is the best service to the community at large to push the idea that if one is serious then they should never come off. Even if you don't state that explicitly it is implies because you and I both know that these young guys of average genetics are going to rationalize that their potential is directly linked to abuse and off they go. In this thread I am offering a message of reason. It is one voice in a forest of 10 million voices that preach extreme.

    If you truly have known the genetically gifted then you will have known at least one individual that can walk on a stage natural in a local show and win the overall. You would have seen someone that grows on next to nothing in anabolics. If you've been around long enough you will have known one or 2 natural competitors that grow better than most guys fully loaded. These are the guys that maybe possibly can justify extreme use to reach to top of the pageantry that is bodybuilding. Otherwise it;'s still a personal choice but I would think it better to take time off from time to time.

    I don't buy that one can not take time off and cycle in a way that leads to year to year progression. That is a fallacy to think otherwise.
    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
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    Glyco, thanks for your contribution to this board.

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    good post man

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdtrain View Post
    he cycled, however what he doesnt tell you is that he bridged in between, because otherwise body cannot, i repeat cannot maintain that weight of muscle. and if you dont have hormones to back it up you will lose it.

    and i want to fill you guys in on something else that you guys may disagree with

    the levrone reports, he is geared guys, he is still using now, may not be alot but he is using
    When Kevin Levrone would come off he would get down to almost 190lbs. He wouldnt bridge. He would kick back his cycle on a few months away from the olympia and would get in phenomenal stage due to his response to drugs and muscle memory. Chances are non of us can do this though lol

  10. #10
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    very good post

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    Big train speaks what everybody don't want to hear and that is the truth... sadly but surely

  12. #12
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    Good post.

    Im old. Cruise & Blast is the way its gotta be.
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    You must spread some reputation around before giving it to Glycomann again.

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    I'm old too... workin hard, consistent -

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    Great post as always bro...

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    Good shyte.

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    Glycomann- yes this is a good post indeed. what i was trying to get off is that yes people should cycle aas. in the long run it is much better for your natural hormones, and better for your overall health. however my point was if someone is very serious about getting into the professional level of bbing, they need to be using high high amounts, because those are the guys that make it to the top. you will never be 5'10'' or under walking around 260 muscle without high amounts of aas, gh and insulin, just wont happen

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    Agree with bigdtrain ..
    Body building is a life time commitment not a training course.

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    But a very nice post ...
    Body building is a life time commitment not a training course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdtrain View Post
    Glycomann- yes this is a good post indeed. what i was trying to get off is that yes people should cycle aas. in the long run it is much better for your natural hormones, and better for your overall health. however my point was if someone is very serious about getting into the professional level of bbing, they need to be using high high amounts, because those are the guys that make it to the top. you will never be 5'10'' or under walking around 260 muscle without high amounts of aas, gh and insulin, just wont happen
    Tough to do 260 at 4% on stage.
    What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
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    I had the same mind frame a year ago and thought I never wanted to come off.I then realized I don't have the genetic potential to ever be a pro bodybuilder and realized I'm just fucking my body up.For what?A little extra muscle not worth it imho.I will never cycle longer then 15 week's now with atleast 15 week's off.So what if I loose some size and strength not the end of the world.



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    yes your body will thank you. remember only top top pros get big pay day aswell

    Quote Originally Posted by ontopthegame85 View Post
    I had the same mind frame a year ago and thought I never wanted to come off.I then realized I don't have the genetic potential to ever be a pro bodybuilder and realized I'm just fucking my body up.For what?A little extra muscle not worth it imho.I will never cycle longer then 15 week's now with atleast 15 week's off.So what if I loose some size and strength not the end of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdtrain View Post
    he cycled, however what he doesnt tell you is that he bridged in between, because otherwise body cannot, i repeat cannot maintain that weight of muscle. and if you dont have hormones to back it up you will lose it.

    and i want to fill you guys in on something else that you guys may disagree with

    the levrone reports, he is geared guys, he is still using now, may not be alot but he is using
    Thank you.. for stating the obvious truth.. A lot of guys flamed me when I posted on his YouTube videos that he is still on gear because he was increasing his bench press by 5 or 10 pounds weekly.. At that age and without gear it's almost impossible to do it.. But a lot of idiots think he is still natural...

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    yes a lot of people are oblivious
    if you look at him, that is not what a natural physique looks like, thats what a geared physique looks like. and anyone who disagrees i say this to you; find me anyone who is 5'10'' and 225lbs at 6%. just wont happen without gear. plus most pro bbers need trt after they are done with career, and if he is using even 500mg a week. natural guys have about 6mg a day they produce

    Quote Originally Posted by mario_ps2 View Post
    Thank you.. for stating the obvious truth.. A lot of guys flamed me when I posted on his YouTube videos that he is still on gear because he was increasing his bench press by 5 or 10 pounds weekly.. At that age and without gear it's almost impossible to do it.. But a lot of idiots think he is still natural...

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    Good post bro..

    And good points bigtrain..
    OBSESSED "Word lazy fukers use to describe the DEDICATED. Failure has never been an option go HARD or go HOME"

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