Study: Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan raises taxes on 84 percent of households

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    Study: Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan raises taxes on 84 percent of households

    Study: Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan raises taxes on 84 percent of households, wealthy get big breaks

    By Associated Press, Tuesday, October 18, 1:51 PM

    WASHINGTON — Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan would raise taxes on 84 percent of U.S. households, according to an independent analysis released Tuesday, contradicting claims by the Republican presidential candidate that most Americans would see a tax cut.

    The Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank, says low- and middle-income families would be hit hardest, with households making between $10,000 and $20,000 seeing their taxes increase by nearly 950 percent.

    “You’re talking a $2,700 tax increase for people with incomes between $10,000 and $20,000,” said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the Tax Policy Center. “That’s huge.”

    Households with the highest incomes, however, would get big tax cuts. Those making more than $1 million a year would see their taxes cut nearly in half, on average, according to the analysis.

    Among those in the middle, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 would see their taxes increase by an average of $4,400, the report said. Those making between $50,000 and $75,000 would see their annual tax bill go up by an average of $4,326.

    “It’s very, very regressive compared to the current system, and that’s largely because we’re exempting capital gains, and we’re taxing your spending with the sales tax,” Williams said. “People at the top end don’t spend all their money and they get a lot of capital gains, so they are doing pretty well here.”

    Cain disputed the analysis Tuesday evening during GOP presidential debate in Las Vegas, where the other Republican candidates heaped on criticism. Cain has acknowledged that taxes would increase for some but says taxes would decrease for most.

    “It does not raise taxes on those that are making the least,” Cain said. “All of those are simply not true.”

    “The reason that our plan is being attacked so much is because lobbyists, accountants, politicians, they don’t want to throw out the current tax code and put in something that’s simple and fair,” Cain said. “They want to continue to be able to manipulate the American people with a 10 million-word mess.”

    Cain’s plan would scrap current taxes on income, payroll, capital gains and corporate profits. He would replace them with a 9 percent tax on income, a 9 percent business tax and a 9 percent national sales tax.

    Cain’s campaign has gained momentum largely in response to his tax plan, which is popular in part because of its simplicity. Several polls have the former CEO of Godfather’s Pizza at or near the top of the Republican field, vying with former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

    President Barack Obama told ABC News that Cain’s tax plan would impose a “huge burden” on middle-class and working families. The president said Cain’s plan would make sure the wealthiest pay less — and replace the revenue with a sales tax hitting the less well-off.

    Romney criticized the plan in a conference call with reporters Tuesday.

    “I believe that you’re going to find with the 9-9-9 plan Herman Cain has put out that the burden shifts more to the middle class, and I think that’s the wrong direction to go,” Romney said. “A decision to completely jettison our current tax system for a new system always has some merit, but then you need to get into it, to figure out who’s this going to help and who’s this going to hurt.”

    Cain’s rise in the polls has brought increased scrutiny, and his tax plan has taken hits from across the political spectrum. Some don’t like shifting the tax burden from the wealthy to the poor and middle class; others don’t like the new national sales tax.

    “Anytime you give the Congress a brand-new tax, it doesn’t go away,” said Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn. “If we give Congress a 9 percent sales tax, how long will it take a liberal president and a liberal Congress to run that up to maybe 90 percent?”

    William McBride, an economist at the conservative Tax Foundation, said Cain’s plan to move away from taxing savings and investment “would be a very good thing for growth in the long run.”

    But, McBride said, the national sales tax would be a nightmare to administer because so many state and local governments already have sales taxes, and the bases are different.

    In most states, food and medicine are excluded from sales tax. Cain has said his sales tax would be applied to all new goods — only used goods would be exempt.

    “It’s not as simple as having all these jurisdictions simply tack on 9 percent and send it to the federal government,” McBride said in an interview.

    Cain has said his plan would initially raise as much money as the current tax system but do it more efficiently, leading to economic growth, which would produce higher tax revenues. The Tax Policy Center analysis agreed that the plan would initially raise about the same amount of money as current tax policy, about $2.55 trillion in 2013.

    The Tax Policy Center compared taxes on U.S. households under current tax policy, with those imposed under the Cain plan. In using current tax policy, the analysis assumes that tax cuts enacted under former President George W. Bush — and extended through 2012 by Obama — would be extended.

    The center did a separate analysis that assumed all the Bush-era tax cuts would expire at the end of 2012. Under that scenario, Cain’s plan would still impose higher taxes on 77 percent of U.S. households, the report said.

    The Tax Policy Center is a research group formed by two Washington think tanks: the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution. Researchers at the center regularly testify before Congress on tax policy. The center’s analyses during the 2008 presidential campaign were widely circulated.

    The center said researchers tried to consult with Cain’s advisers to make sure they were interpreting the plan correctly, but they had not heard back.

    ___

    Associated Press writer Steve Peoples contributed to this report.

    Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

    © The Washington Post Company

    Study: Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan raises taxes on 84 percent of households, wealthy get big breaks - The Washington Post
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    After seeing all the momentum Herman Cain has got from his 9-9-9 plan President Obama is now proposing his own plan to reform the tax code...

    He calls it his 19-19-19 plan...

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    Study: Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan raises taxes on 84 percent of households, wealthy get big breaks

    By Associated Press, Tuesday, October 18, 1:51 PM

    WASHINGTON — Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 tax plan would raise taxes on 84 percent of U.S. households, according to an independent analysis released Tuesday, contradicting claims by the Republican presidential candidate that most Americans would see a tax cut.
    Same old stupidigy by even discussing this.

    The saw a portion of the debate. Talking about "taxes" once again, when it's the spending that is the problem.

    It's a farce.

    999 or not. Reform is too complex to do.

    If Cain even won, there wouldn't be 999, IMO.
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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    Of course it will considering how many currently don't pay taxes.

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    I'm all for raising taxes on most of the 50% who currently don't pay net income tax.

    There's no free lunch regardless of what the Democrats tell you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Pimpin View Post
    I'm all for raising taxes on most of the 50% who currently don't pay net income tax.
    lol...did you just finish your breakfast of lead based paint chips?

    did Fox not tell you that 50% of the US is making 1980's wages? or can you not figure out inflation rates on your own based on the median household income of around $48K with 2 wage earners? it's like 7th grade mathematics...

    they pay plenty of taxes at the state level just not federal...maybe you could explain in detail how forcing people with low incomes to pay federal taxes would benefit the economy once these people fall into poverty.
    Last edited by LAM; 10-19-2011 at 08:59 AM.
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    I have no problem with lower income people paying more net tax, but tired of giving tax breaks to so called 'job creators' who create minimum wage jobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    lol...did you just finish your breakfast of lead based paint chips?

    did Fox not tell you that 50% of the US is making 1980's wages? or can you not figure out inflation rates on your own based on the median household income of around $48K with 2 wage earners? it's like 7th grade mathematics...

    they pay plenty of taxes at the state level just not federal...maybe you could explain in detail how forcing people with low incomes to pay federal taxes would benefit the economy once these people fall into poverty.

    I don't give two shits what the current wages are comparable too. The fact is this country is on a collision course with bankruptcy and its time for most of the lower 50% to start paying more. And so the lower 50% pay some state taxes? Big deal considering how low state taxes are in most states.

    If a couple can't live on $48K/yr in most areas of this country, they need to get their priorities straight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Pimpin View Post
    I don't give two shits what the current wages are comparable too. The fact is this country is on a collision course with bankruptcy and its time for most of the lower 50% to start paying more. And so the lower 50% pay some state taxes? Big deal considering how low state taxes are in most states.

    If a couple can't live on $48K/yr in most areas of this country, they need to get their priorities straight.
    I thought you don't taxes in the middle of a recession? Or does that only go for raising taxes on the job creators. I guess that makes sense, those poor people wouldn't use that money, poor people save all of their money so you might as well pump it in to the government, right?
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    i'm a firm believer in if you don't pay taxes,then you shouldn't receive the benefits of taxes.....(other than national security of course)....
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    Quote Originally Posted by irish_2003 View Post
    i'm a firm believer in if you don't pay taxes,then you shouldn't receive the benefits of taxes.....(other than national security of course)....
    I agree, but what do you think is going to happen to people who already have barely enough to scrape by when you take an extra $2k from them? They are either going to become wards of the state or they steal. Perhaps if they were making a few dollars more an hour they could afford to pay taxes, but you can't force companies to pay more, right? That is why income distribution is the problem, if companies dropped CEO pay by 10% they could pay more to the bottom and pay more people. This would broaden the tax base and remove more takers from entitlements, thus both balancing the budget and making sure everyone pays their fair share. When a CEO makes 400x the amount of money as your standard middle income wage earner you can't blame an increase in the cost of goods on something like the minimum wage or gov't regulation, the problem is the CEO is paid too much. In fact, an intelligent person would think that any move that would push us in this direction would be retarded and counterproductive to getting people off the gov't tit and broadening the tax base.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    I agree, but what do you think is going to happen to people who already have barely enough to scrape by when you take an extra $2k from them? They are either going to become wards of the state or they steal. Perhaps if they were making a few dollars more an hour they could afford to pay taxes, but you can't force companies to pay more, right? That is why income distribution is the problem, if companies dropped CEO pay by 10% they could pay more to the bottom and pay more people. This would broaden the tax base and remove more takers from entitlements, thus both balancing the budget and making sure everyone pays their fair share. When a CEO makes 400x the amount of money as your standard middle income wage earner you can't blame an increase in the cost of goods on something like the minimum wage or gov't regulation, the problem is the CEO is paid too much. In fact, an intelligent person would think that any move that would push us in this direction would be retarded and counterproductive to getting people off the gov't tit and broadening the tax base.
    i'll try to find the link, but there's a 9-9-9 calculator.....prices on products will actually start to come down....these statements that poor are paying more is misleading because overall they'll save even though the tax portion is slightly higher.....

    can't remember if this is the correct one:

    http://www.nerds4cain.com/Blog/archives/723
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    In order for that to work, not only would the price of the goods have to come down 9% to accommodate the new sales tax, it would also have to drop an additional 9% because now the poor have a 9% tax burden that they never had. i don't see companies slashing prices by 18%. This would benefit you and I, but this would drive the poor into deeper poverty and become even bigger wards of the state.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    In order for that to work, not only would the price of the goods have to come down 9% to accommodate the new sales tax, it would also have to drop an additional 9% because now the poor have a 9% tax burden that they never had. i don't see companies slashing prices by 18%. This would benefit you and I, but this would drive the poor into deeper poverty and become even bigger wards of the state.
    then they'd (the poor) be forced to "shit or get off the pot" for once....and i'm 100% in favor of that
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    maybe you could explain in detail how forcing people with low incomes to pay federal taxes would benefit the economy once these people fall into poverty.
    It lessens the incentive to be a parasite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    I thought you don't taxes in the middle of a recession? Or does that only go for raising taxes on the job creators. I guess that makes sense, those poor people wouldn't use that money, poor people save all of their money so you might as well pump it in to the government, right?

    In a perfect world, Congress quits spending like drunken sailors so you don't have to raise taxes during a recession and $48k/yr for a couple isn't 'poor' its still middle class.

    If Congress cuts the budget 10%-20%, we don't necessarily need the other 50% to pay part of their share but I don't see that happening do you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by troubador View Post
    It lessens the incentive to be a parasite.

    I agree, sink or swim.
    The way this country should work according to dems -
    work hard - get punished.
    do nothing - get rewarded by stealing from those that earned shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chucko View Post
    I agree, sink or swim.
    The way this country should work according to dems -
    work hard - get punished.
    do nothing - get rewarded by stealing from those that earned shit.
    what do you call a black man on a bike?
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    Quote Originally Posted by irish_2003 View Post
    what do you call a black man on a bike?

    Do tell...

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    Quote Originally Posted by irish_2003 View Post
    then they'd (the poor) be forced to "shit or get off the pot" for once....and i'm 100% in favor of that
    You mean they'll take one of the millions of jobs that are available right now? Smarten up.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    You mean they'll take one of the millions of jobs that are available right now? Smarten up.
    there's plenty of jobs....people (in general at the lower end of the spectrum) aren't putting in the effort and are waiting for "someone else will do it for me".....if only everyone had the mentality of "the harder i work, the luckier i get"........
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    I agree, but what do you think is going to happen to people who already have barely enough to scrape by when you take an extra $2k from them? They are either going to become wards of the state or they steal. Perhaps if they were making a few dollars more an hour they could afford to pay taxes, but you can't force companies to pay more, right? That is why income distribution is the problem, if companies dropped CEO pay by 10% they could pay more to the bottom and pay more people. This would broaden the tax base and remove more takers from entitlements, thus both balancing the budget and making sure everyone pays their fair share. When a CEO makes 400x the amount of money as your standard middle income wage earner you can't blame an increase in the cost of goods on something like the minimum wage or gov't regulation, the problem is the CEO is paid too much. In fact, an intelligent person would think that any move that would push us in this direction would be retarded and counterproductive to getting people off the gov't tit and broadening the tax base.

    It's funny how they say they can't afford to pay any federal taxes, but they seem to find a way to pay for $200 hair weaves, nails, name brand clothes, $100 cell phone bills and big rims for their buckets...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    You mean they'll take one of the millions of jobs that are available right now? Smarten up.
    You mean they doing everything possible to better their careers and become financially independent? Smarten up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by troubador View Post
    You mean they doing everything possible to better their careers and become financially independent? Smarten up.
    Just to be certain, are we talking about welfare recipients or people on unemployment?
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExLe View Post
    It's funny how they say they can't afford to pay any federal taxes, but they seem to find a way to pay for $200 hair weaves, nails, name brand clothes, $100 cell phone bills and big rims for their buckets...
    Come on, now. You can't honesty think that welfare fraud adds up to any significant amount of money. I'm not saying that it should be allowed to happen or that it's fair, but it's chump change. It's certainly not going to turn around the economy. Even so, that money the few people who are scamming the system spend on hair weaves, iphones, and rims actually contributes to the tax base via sales and business taxes.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by irish_2003 View Post
    there's plenty of jobs....people (in general at the lower end of the spectrum) aren't putting in the effort and are waiting for "someone else will do it for me".....if only everyone had the mentality of "the harder i work, the luckier i get"........
    The problem is really a question of values. The lefties/liberals/altruists/etc believe (by the very nature of their beliefs) that the weak are good and they're being disadvantaged is a result of some oppressor or perhaps just bad luck. It simply is not in the value system of liberals to see the lower class as parasitic. The altruist must see the weak as good or else the sacrifice is for nothing.

    So trying to convince liberals that the poor are there of their own accord, lazy, good for nothing ,etc is probably a waste of time.
    Last edited by troubador; 10-19-2011 at 01:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    Just to be certain, are we talking about welfare recipients or people on unemployment?
    (the poor)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Pimpin View Post
    In a perfect world, Congress quits spending like drunken sailors so you don't have to raise taxes during a recession and $48k/yr for a couple isn't 'poor' its still middle class.

    If Congress cuts the budget 10%-20%, we don't necessarily need the other 50% to pay part of their share but I don't see that happening do you?
    What kind of house do you think you can buy with $48k per year and 2 kids in school? How much extra money do you have to spend in our consumer-based economy with $3000/month in take home pay for 4 people?

    As for your second question...I don't see anything being done for a while. Most of the things being batted around by dems won't do anything and most of the things the GOP would do will cause the ship to sink.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by troubador View Post
    The problem is really a question of values. The lefties/liberals/altruists/etc believe (by the very nature of their beliefs) that the weak are good and they're being disadvantaged is a result of some oppressor or perhaps just bad luck. It simply is not in the value system of liberals to see the lower class as parasitic. The altruist must see the weak as good or else the sacrifice is for nothing.
    That's utter bullshit. They don't have to be oppressed, they can make shitty decisions and end up where they are. The disconnect is that the right believes that because at most 1 out of 10 people cheat the system you need to tear it down. Oh yeah, and they believe that if you have a $1.5 trillion budget deficit the primary way you fix it is by completely removing a program that costs 1.4% of that deficit.

    As for democrats, they are pussies, incompetent, and as corrupt as the GOP.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    That's utter bullshit. They don't have to be oppressed, they can make shitty decisions and end up where they are.
    I didn't say they had to be oppressed. Remember we are talking about policies that apply to a group as a whole and thus how they are valued as a whole.

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