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Help me choose my first "real" Cycle!!!

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    Help me choose my first "real" Cycle!!!

    OK, first off I have enough gear on hand to do 6 or 7 cycles. This will be my first "real" cycle. Long story short, I figured out I was low test 1 year ago, but suspected it a year or more before. I did a saliva test 13 months ago which showed low normal free test, but almost non-existant DHEA (stress from business, etc cought up to me, adrenal fatigue).

    In May I did dermacrine/S.A. with other Naty test boosters for 6 weeks. I've been on dhea since. I've put on 24lbs from Jan 1 to Dec 15 (at least 2/3ds muscle). I've been cutting for 1 month and I'm down 6lbs. In Sept I did some blood work and it showed test was 187, but everything else was normal. Even free test was normal. I've been putting off cycling to work with an Endo, but the first one was a douche working mostly with women and the second one had a bad rep, so yesterday I called in and said fuck it, I'll cycle and follow up in the summer.

    Hopefully the long winded intro to this thread will prevent some stupid uninformed suggestions...

    Goal; recomp, feel good! Cycles will be low dose and Zero of them will be test only so please resist the urge to recommend this. I've researched for more than 2 years, I've got a pretty good idea of the game plan, but nothing quite beats the experience of a vet.

    Stats; 38, 5'8", 195lbs (was 203 4 weeks ago), 20% BF. Been trainning off and on for 22 years. Starting packing on the fat Lbs 5 years ago, which is probably when the natty test started to fail. I was 174 and could squat 315 for 5 reps. I wont go into the sob life story, but I was a wreck 18 months ago, could not squat the bar for 10 reps.

    Bench 185X5 (my bench sucks), squat 265X5, deads 275X5, BB row, 185X5, overhead press 125X5.

    What I have on hand.

    90ml of Test E 250
    50ml of Test C 300
    75ml of Eq 250/300
    10ml prop 100
    50ml primo 100 (in the mail, 1 week dom)
    50 X 50mg Var
    PCT

    Cycles in post 2...
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    Any of these cycles will do, I just want to know what the vets think . I'm not going to change the dose much of anything, no matter what the folks say...consider my goal...

    The original cycle I wanted to do...

    15 weeks
    1-15 250mg Test E
    1-15 400mg Eq
    3-15 HCG (500iu/2)
    1-15 10mg ED Aromasin
    18 Triptorelin 100mcg
    18-22 Igf-1 des
    18-21 Clomid 25 ED
    18-21 Sustain Alpha
    18-21 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.

    Cycle 2

    1-12 250 Test E or C
    1-12 400 Primo
    3-12 HCG (500iu/2)
    1-12 10mg EOD Aromasin
    18 Triptorelin 100mcg
    18-22 Igf-1 des
    15-18 Clomid 25 ED
    15-18 Sustain Alpha
    15-18 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.

    Cycle 3 (I just thought of it yesterday because I got a bonus vial of Prop in the mail), otherwise I was leaning towards cycle 2.

    1-3 100 Test Prop EOD
    1-12 250 Test E
    6-12 50mg Var ED (split in 2 doses)
    3-12 HCG (500iu/2)
    1-12 10mg EOD Aromasin
    18 Triptorelin 100mcg
    18-22 Igf-1 des
    15-18 Clomid 25 ED
    15-18 Sustain Alpha
    15-18 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.

    I think I'll do the cycles in reverse

    3) lean bulk (off for 12 weeks after PCT)
    2) cut (off 16 weeks)
    1) lean bulk
    Last edited by vancouver; 01-13-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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    I would go see an endo before trusting a saliva test. Blood work trumps all.

    If it is low then start TRT and get your dose dialed in first, THEN the gears.

    By the looks of things you should be doing a little more reading.

    Good luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by XYZ View Post
    I would go see an endo before trusting a saliva test. Blood work trumps all.

    If it is low then start TRT and get your dose dialed in first, THEN the gears.

    By the looks of things you should be doing a little more reading.

    Good luck
    You didn't read the whole thread. I did do blood with my doc and an Endo; 187 was the last score...

    Will not be dialing down a TRT dose. I'm going to cycle first, then follow up with a good Endo in this summer, it's going to take 6 months to get into this guy. I'll put off cycle 2 and 3 until I get TRT down...

    In the meantime...low dose cycle...

    Forgot to mention that I'll be getting blood work done every 2-3 weeks and my current doc whose a good guy will monitor...

    Thanks anyway though, cheers.
    Last edited by vancouver; 01-13-2012 at 01:46 PM.
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    made an error to cycle 3 (too late to edit)

    Cycle 3 (I just thought of it yesterday because I got a bonus vial of Prop in the mail), otherwise I was leaning towards cycle 2.

    1-3 100 Test Prop EOD
    1-12 250 Test E
    8-14 50mg Var ED (split in 2 doses)
    3-12 HCG (500iu/2)
    1-12 10mg EOD Aromasin
    18 Triptorelin 100mcg
    18-22 Igf-1 des
    15-18 Clomid 25 ED
    15-18 Sustain Alpha
    15-18 Natty supps, Creatine, test busters.
    6-18 Liver Juice
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    If you're going to cycle than 250mgs of test a week is pointless. That's barely above what a normal male produces in a week. for some people that's a trt dose. IMO, you need at least 400mgs for a decent cycle.

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    test,tren,drols,ipam/cjc,igf-1 LR3 with a hint of slin

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    First off I'm no vet.

    Secondly your 5 foot 8 and 200lbs with not much muscle judging by your lifts. Personally I would take OP advice and get your shit together in the gym and trt before deciding to blast gear

    For first cycle I would do test only with maybe a dbol kick start. Like below running test at 250 a week ain't shit.

    Weeks 1-4 20-40mgs dbol
    Weeks 1-16Test e 500 a week
    25 adex eod

    And if your trt you probably wouldn't need a pct right?

    But to recap start your trt and get some gym time in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aminoman74 View Post
    test,tren,drols,ipam/cjc,igf-1 LR3 with a hint of slin

    Bro its his firt real cycle....that stuff is too much for him
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibrant View Post
    If you're going to cycle than 250mgs of test a week is pointless. That's barely above what a normal male produces in a week. for some people that's a trt dose. IMO, you need at least 400mgs for a decent cycle.
    I think a lot of vets are going to disagree, I'm staking a second compound; I would totally agree with you if I were doing test only. will I get better results with 400? For sure, but with greater sides. This is a first run and I'm prone to MPB, If things are going well at week 6, I might up it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by aminoman74 View Post
    test,tren,drols,ipam/cjc,igf-1 LR3 with a hint of slin
    That's fucking idiotic advice even if you're joking. Dude is asking for help and that's the advice you give him? if you want to troll and joke around, do it in anything goes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vancouver View Post
    I think a lot of vets are going to disagree, I'm staking a second compound; I would totally agree with you if I were doing test only. will I get better results with 400? For sure, but with greater sides. This is a first run and I'm prone to MPB, If things are going well at week 6, I might up it...
    Your wrong most vets on here would not agree. You should go back and read the sticky above titled first cycle. And then research the compounds your talking about using.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vancouver View Post
    I think a lot of vets are going to disagree, I'm staking a second compound; I would totally agree with you if I were doing test only. will I get better results with 400? For sure, but with greater sides. This is a first run and I'm prone to MPB, If things are going well at week 6, I might up it...
    400 is a very low and safe dose. Test is actually one of the safest steroids. if you're worried about sides, then a test +primo cycle is your best bet IMO. Keep a proper dose of ai and you'll be fine.

    And pct should be (if you're planning on it):

    Clomid 100/100/75/50
    Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5

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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    Your wrong most vets on here would not agree. You should go back and read the sticky above titled first cycle. And then research the compounds your talking about using.
    BS. A lot of guys have had no problem gaining 10lbs on Var only, Eq only or Primo only on first cycle. I'm adding more than a maintanance level of test. If I gain 10 keepable lbs with little sides and no fat gain, I'll be very happy. I'll then do it 2 more times.

    If anything, I could up the Eq or Primo...I don't have to up the test.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibrant View Post
    400 is a very low and safe dose. Test is actually one of the safest steroids. if you're worried about sides, then a test +primo cycle is your best bet IMO. Keep a proper dose of ai and you'll be fine.

    And pct should be (if you're planning on it):

    Clomid 100/100/75/50
    Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5
    My PCT is listed in my cycle and I'm sticking to it. I also like the Primo cycle

    The Official PCT Thread - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums
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    Quote Originally Posted by vancouver View Post
    My PCT is listed in my cycle and I'm sticking to it. I also like the Primo cycle

    The Official PCT Thread - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums
    I actually always do clomid 100/100/75/50 with the aromasin and it works like a mofo, even after tren. I do use hcg throughout though too.

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    Plus I'm scared of that triptorelin shit. I personally don't think there's enough experience out there to trust it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibrant View Post
    400 is a very low and safe dose. Test is actually one of the safest steroids. if you're worried about sides, then a test +primo cycle is your best bet IMO. Keep a proper dose of ai and you'll be fine.

    And pct should be (if you're planning on it):

    Clomid 100/100/75/50
    Aromasin 25/25/12.5/12.5



    This
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    Quote Originally Posted by vancouver View Post
    BS. A lot of guys have had no problem gaining 10lbs on Var only, Eq only or Primo only on first cycle. I'm adding more than a maintanance level of test. If I gain 10 keepable lbs with little sides and no fat gain, I'll be very happy. I'll then do it 2 more times.

    If anything, I could up the Eq or Primo...I don't have to up the test.
    Are you serious man? Listen to vibrant he was nice enough to respond to a thread that is stickied on the top. You are an idiot primo only would not get you shit, var only for a guy as fat as you would be useless. You want to gain 10 lbs I'm 185 5'11 and my lifts are bigger than yours. Youre a fatty that needs to lose 15pounds. stop argueing and start listening.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GarlicChicken View Post
    I actually always do clomid 100/100/75/50 with the aromasin and it works like a mofo, even after tren. I do use hcg throughout though too.
    The link in my thread is a real good read. I was going to go 100/100/75/75. but after reading about the Natty supps that help and using HCG on cycle, many feel these doses can be much lower. Clomid is toxic drug. The good thing is, I'll have plenty of ancillaries and if PCT takes 5 weeks...so be it...

    Cheers
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    Quote Originally Posted by vancouver View Post
    My PCT is listed in my cycle and I'm sticking to it. I also like the Primo cycle

    The Official PCT Thread - Primordial Performance Discussion Forums
    Sorry to be so blunt but that fucking pct is stupid. you're going to listen to pct advice from a company that sells over hyped supplements/pro hormones. You already have low test and you're risking complete shutdown.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    Are you serious man? Listen to vibrant he was nice enough to respond to a thread that is stickied on the top. You are an idiot primo only would not get you shit, var only for a guy as fat as you would be useless. You want to gain 10 lbs I'm 185 5'11 and my lifts are bigger than yours. Youre a fatty that needs to lose 15pounds. stop argueing and start listening.
    No I'm a guy with 187 natty test levels Ass Hole and I've been reading a shit load for 2 years. If I can gain 6 clean lbs on 6 weeks dermcrine, clearly I can gain 10 lbs on any of the cycles above.

    And who gives a shit what I lift, you did not read the first thread which was aimed at elliminating as many stupid posts as possible. I lift WAY more than the average guy.

    My goals are not your goals.

    Vibrant knows his shit, but he does not know what my goals is. I still appreciate his feedback though...
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    Good luck!

    Btw there is a reason why their are 1000 people in this section an three responding to you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vibrant View Post
    Sorry to be so blunt but that fucking pct is stupid. you're going to listen to pct advice from a company that sells over hyped supplements/pro hormones. You already have low test and you're risking complete shutdown.
    C'mon man...I see your point but seriously...this shit as come a long way. I've read dozens of studies posted by some good guys on a lot of boards which discuss the need for less clomid when using HCG, added with the other compounds...I'm not too worried.

    I'm still all ears though...you never stop learning.

    For the other guys who are going to post, assume I've read a shit load...unilike most guys, I'll be getting blood work done throghout, if someting isn;t right, I'll make an adjustment...
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    wks. 1-10
    500mg test E per week, 2x injections of 250mg 3.5 days apart
    .25mg arimidex every day

    PCT wks. 12-16
    start clomid 14 days after last injection, run @ 100mg clomid per day for week one, 50mg per day for the three following weeks for a total of 4 weeks pct.


    I don't like most of your cycles to be honest, your test is too low at 250mg and you're adding in unnecessary compounds. 500mg test will make you grow pretty damn well with almost no sides except for mild acne/extreme horniness. If you want to use your free prop run it @ 100mg EOD for about the first three weeks to kickstart the long estered test. There's no reason to use anything else really, test is king anyway so you're not missing much

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    Sorry I didn't realize you had such a gear stockpile considering this is your first cycle. If you want to get slightly more complex then definitely kickstart with prop, and finish with around 7weeks of var @50mg. Ideally you should go a little higher on the var but it's up to you if you want to grab some. You'll start making gains right out of the gate, have some solid time on test E to gain some weight and then the var should harden you up a bit at the end if your diet's on point. Sounds pretty good to me no?

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    You keep saying that you did alot of reading but you havent figured out a simple first cycle? You could read for about 5min on this site and figure it out. Listen to what you are being told. That is way too many compounds for a first cycle. Your goals are really no different than anyone elses. We all want to put on muscle, while either reducing or maintaining our fat level. Swallow your pride and listen to people who know. Good luck no matter what road you take.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rage racing View Post
    You keep saying that you did alot of reading but you havent figured out a simple first cycle? You could read for about 5min on this site and figure it out. Listen to what you are being told. That is way too many compounds for a first cycle. Your goals are really no different than anyone elses. We all want to put on muscle, while either reducing or maintaining our fat level. Swallow your pride and listen to people who know. Good luck no matter what road you take.
    Are you on the same thread as everyone else. I looking at doing 250 test e (with a prop kicker (it's still fucking test) with Var starting 8 weeks into the cycle. This is too many compounds???

    If your refering to my PCT, I could through some more shit in there too...I've got plenty of money to burn...

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    Quote Originally Posted by vancouver View Post
    C'mon man...I see your point but seriously...this shit as come a long way. I've read dozens of studies posted by some good guys on a lot of boards which discuss the need for less clomid when using HCG, added with the other compounds...I'm not too worried.

    I'm still all ears though...you never stop learning.

    For the other guys who are going to post, assume I've read a shit load...unilike most guys, I'll be getting blood work done throghout, if someting isn;t right, I'll make an adjustment...
    hcg doesn't do anything to restart natural test production. post up the studies you are talking about because I believe you're missing the point somewhere(Im saying that's not the case though)

    The bare minimum for clomid would be 50mg. and you need an ai for pct as well. if you dont want aromasin, check out formerone by black lion research. that's what I'll be using for pct after being on gear for 6-7months. pm me if you want more info on that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digitalash View Post
    Sorry I didn't realize you had such a gear stockpile considering this is your first cycle. If you want to get slightly more complex then definitely kickstart with prop, and finish with around 7weeks of var @50mg. Ideally you should go a little higher on the var but it's up to you if you want to grab some. You'll start making gains right out of the gate, have some solid time on test E to gain some weight and then the var should harden you up a bit at the end if your diet's on point. Sounds pretty good to me no?
    Yes!! this is what I'm looking at for a first run. Carefull, some of the bros might think you're an idiot.

    I'll do the other cycle later and most likely up the test, but for the purposes of this threard...I would to keep the Test and a base level...
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