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My next cutting cycle?

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  1. #1
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    My next cutting cycle?






    I have been on replacement T and GH for about 2 months now. I have gained a few lbs of fat and feel like crap. Basically I have been doing minimal training and cardio. My diet is tight the first 4 meals daily but the last two I eat and drink anything I want (crap). I was thinking about doing a low stress cutting cycle to trim down for summer. I will need to get nutrition and training back in check very soon.

    Weeks 1-8 400mg Test E or C and 400mg Primobolan
    Weeks 9-12 400mg Test Prop and 400mg Masteron
    Weeks 1-12 5iu Uncle Z GH 6 days per week

    1mg adex 4 days per week

    I'm going to do a carb cycle diet and probably only do cardio 4 times per week to start with 4 weight training sessions per week.

    Sunday~rest
    Monday~legs and abs
    Tuesday~cardio
    Wednesday~arms and cardio
    Thursday~off
    Friday~back and cardio
    Saturday~chest, shoulders and cardio

    Been thinking about doing a log as well to stay motivated.





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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    I have been on replacement T and GH for about 2 months now. I have gained a few lbs of fat and feel like crap. Basically I have been doing minimal training and cardio. My diet is tight the first 4 meals daily but the last two I eat and drink anything I want (crap). I was thinking about doing a low stress cutting cycle to trim down for summer. I will need to get nutrition and training back in check very soon.

    Weeks 1-8 400mg Test E or C and 400mg Primobolan
    Weeks 9-12 400mg Test Prop and 400mg Masteron
    Weeks 1-12 5iu Uncle Z GH 6 days per week

    1mg adex 4 days per week

    I'm going to do a carb cycle diet and probably only do cardio 4 times per week to start with 4 weight training sessions per week.

    Sunday~rest
    Monday~legs and abs
    Tuesday~cardio
    Wednesday~arms and cardio
    Thursday~off
    Friday~back and cardio
    Saturday~chest, shoulders and cardio

    Been thinking about doing a log as well to stay motivated.

    Stick some Tren Ace in there somewhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
    Stick some Tren Ace in there somewhere.
    I am VERY tempted to but I want to keep this a low stress cycle. I may change my mind around week 9 though =)





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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    I am VERY tempted to but I want to keep this a low stress cycle. I may change my mind around week 9 though =)

    Sorry, I overlooked the part of your post where it said "low stress".....


    That leaves Tren outta the equation.


    Looks like a nice program....... Toss in Clen/T3 maybe??


    Why not just go Prop all the way thru 1-12?

    ...or maybe you don't wanna be a pin cushion.
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    Primo seems like it would be excellent for cutting. I think XYZ posted about it's nitrogen retention. I'd like to see how this pans out.
    "When in doubt, whip it out"- Mother Teresa

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tesla View Post
    Sorry, I overlooked the part of your post where it said "low stress".....


    That leaves Tren outta the equation.


    Looks like a nice program....... Toss in Clen/T3 maybe??
    Clen makes me feel like a speed addict so I opt for caffeine instead. I may consider T3 but not sure I want to run it again. I abused T3 pretty hard last year.





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    Quote Originally Posted by withoutrulers View Post
    Primo seems like it would be excellent for cutting. I think XYZ posted about it's nitrogen retention. I'd like to see how this pans out.
    Primo is a very high dollar steroid. Kind of the fine wine of steroids.

    Here's an article about it AR wrote a while back.

    Primobolan by Anthony Roberts

    (methenolone acetate)

    Primobolan is one of those anabolic steroids which has a cult following not unlike the old original version of Masteron. Actually, as you can easily see from its anabolic:androgenic ratio below in the profile, its a pretty weak steroid but actually stronger than Masteron in both regards. I dont know anyone who has run both compounds at the same dose. We are probably justified in speculating that youd probably get similar results from either of them, when you consider the fact that you are getting quite a bit less actual drug and more ester when you choose injectable Primobolan (which has the very long Enanthate ester attached to it) over Masteron (which has the very short propionate ester attached to it). In truth, I think part of the reason many Primobolan users have been disappointed is that they failed to use enough of it, for long enough. From its chemical structure and anabolic:androgenic rating, we can assume it is at least as effective as Masteron, on an equal Mg for mg basis. However, due to its ester (in the injectable version), it needs to be run for at least 12 weeks to see the full benefits from it. When you consider a measly dose of 400mgs of this stuff for 12 weeks will probably cost you around $500.

    Its easy to see why many people have tried to use less...and have been disappointed with their results. On the other hand, many competitive bodybuilders consider Primobolan indespensible to their pre-contest drud routine, and wouldnt consider dieting without it. Anyway...I think the comparison to Masteron (another great precontest drug) is the best one we can make, with reference to expected gains and results.

    I happen to be one of the few people who have used Drostanolone Enanthate (Masteron with the Enanthate ester attached) as well as Methenolone Enanthate (injectable Primobolan). I can tell you that the results from these two compounds, when ester and mg potency are the same, are in fact very similar.

    Effects of Primobolan

    Lets flesh out some of the various general effects of Primobolan, before we get into the differences between the oral and injectable versions... One study performed on sheep involved administering 100mgs of Methenolone, and electronically stimulating their lats (electronic stimulation was used because they kept falling off the chin-up bars). Anyway, when compared with the lat muscles of sheep who didnt receive Methenolone, the receiving group gained significantly more muscle mass as well as strength (1)(2). Its also has a relatively high affinity for binding to the AR, actually binding better than testosterone (3). This ability to strongly bind to the AR may be why Primobolan is such a good "fat burner." Strong AR binding has been positively correlated with lypolysis (fat-burning) (8).

    In addition, as this steroid can actually aid in reducing breast tumors, no ancillary products need be considered for use with Primobolan, and in fact, it may actually be a useful ancillary agent in its own right, similar to Masteron. Also, just like Masteron, Primobolan has no propensity to aromatize (convert to estrogen). Since it doesnt aromatize, alot of the side effects commonly associated with estrogen will not be of concern. This means water retention, acne, and gyno will be non-existent more or less. this lack of water retention combined with the slow and steady gains provided by Primo may help to explain why it has earned a reputation for creating quality muscle gains. This also helps to explain why it is so expensive. Although estrogenic sides are not a concern, hair loss still, remains a very real concern with Primobolan, as with many DHT-Derived steroids. Many primobolan fans always include Finasteride and Ketoconazole (shampoo) in cycles containing Primobolan.

    Although nobody would ever suggest to use Primobolan as a bulking agent, its been studied as an agent to halt wasting and possibly reverse many of the adverse effects of anemia. It is a shocking failure in both areas, according to some of the case studies Ive read, (5)(6) and this should come to no surprise to anyone. Anadrol reigns supreme in this area, and nobody in the athletic community would ever compare those two drugs. However, Michael Mooney and many other respected doctors who work with AIDS patients have found sufficient evidence to claim that Primobolan is an immune enhancer and as such is very useful for AIDS patients (not that the FDA cares...Primobolan is still not approved for sale in the United States). AIDS patients arent really in need of Bulking Drugs, so an immune enhancer like Primo which will add small, quality gains in muscle is perfect for them. And since we arent even going to vaguely consider the use of Primobolan as a bulking agent, clearly this leaves us with considering it primarily for use in gaining and maintaining lean tissue. Its a great choice for this purpose, and many competitors have used it very successfully to retain muscle while on a calorie reduced diet. The reason Primo is so useful for this purpose is that one of its primary functions is to help your body retain nitrogen (7) at a greatly enhanced rate. The greater your nitrogen retention is, the more muscle you will build. In the case of using primo as a pre-contest drug, this nitrogen retention will help you retain muscle and ensure that your dieting preferentially favors fat loss over muscle loss.

    Primobolan is a very unique steroid, as it is one of the few that comes in both an oral as well as an injectable version. I suppose Winstrol does also, but Primobolan actually has a different ester on the oral (acetate ) and injectable (Enanthate) versions. The oral version is one of the more interesting oral compounds Ive looked into. For starters, its one of the few compounds available to athletes and bodybuilders which is both oral as well as non-17-alpha-alkylation. This alteration is (as Im sure you remember from other stuff Ive written) what generally makes oral steroids survive their first pass through your liver, but also makes them Hepatoxic (Liver toxic). Well... oral Primo doesnt have this feature, so it is very mild on your liver (actually it basically isnt liver toxic at all), but also is largely destroyed by it, since 17 beta estrification and 1 alkylation is the method used to make this stuff orally available. Youll need to take a lot of this stuff for it to be effective... 100mgs/day of the oral version is a safe estimate for reasonable gains& for women, you could get away with less; perhaps 25mgs/day. Even though the acetate ester has a 2-3 day active life, your liver will do some damage to oral primo, so every day dosing will still be necessary.

    When men were given a 30-45mg dose of the oral version of Primo, they experienced a 15-65% decrease in gonadotropin levels (9). Remember, I said 100mgs is a good dose for gains... well, youll also reduce your gonadotropin levels considerably. I have personally never understood why people recommend either oral or injectable Primobolan as a possible bridging compound for this reason... maybe at a too-low-to-do-anything dose of 10mgs it could be used as a bridge. And forget about using injectable Primo to bridge &

    Hey... speaking about injectable Primo...

    Ive used this stuff at 200mgs/week and wasnt very impressed with it. Generally, I think injectable primo needs to be used at a dose of at least 350mgs/week (100mgs/Every other Day), and preferably at a dose of 400-600mgs/week. I happen to like running it with testosterone propionate, but for convenience I would imagine most people would run it with Testosterone Enanthate, to keep dosing times the same (shooting it twice per week, in most cases).

    Buying Primobolan

    The unfortunate truth about injectable Primo is that its a very expensive chemical to obtain, and that price is reflected in the cost to the average consumer. Ten dollars per 1ml/100mg ampule is not unheard of, and Ive seen it go for more. This is, of course, absurd. As if thats not enough, this is also the most commonly counterfeited steroids on the black market. I recommend buying Primobolan (either the oral or injectable) from a respected Underground lab instead of trying to play a game of "spot the fake steroid" in Mexico or Europe. The underground versions should cost between $5-7 for 100mgs of Methenolone and I wouldnt really consider paying more for it, although I have seen the British Dragon version of this product priced up to $20/ml.

    Primobolan Profile

    (Methenolone)

    (Oral Version is + Acetate Ester)
    (Injectable Version is + Enanthate Ester)
    [17beta-Hydroxy-1-methyl-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one]
    Molecular weight of base: 302.4558
    Molecular weight of Acetate ester: 60.0524
    Molecular weight of Enanthate ester: 130.1864
    Formula: C20H30O2
    Melting Point:
    Manufacturer: Schering
    Effective dose(oral): (Men)50-100mgs/day; (Women) 10-25mgs/day
    Effective dose (injectable): (Men) 350-600mgs/week; (Women) 100mgs/week
    Active Life: 10-14 days (injectable); 4-6hrs (oral)
    Detection Time: 4-5 weeks
    Anabolic/Androgenic Ratio (Range): 88:44-57

    References:

    1. Anabolic steroids (metenolone) improve muscle performance and hemodynamic characteristics in cardiomyoplasty. Ann Thorac Surg. 1995 Apr;59(4):961-9; discussion 969-70.
    2. Effect of an anabolic steroid (Metenolon) on contractile performance of the chronically stimulated latissimus dorsi in sheep. Eur J Cardiothorac Surg. 1994;8(4):214-9.
    3. Relative binding affinity of anabolic-androgenic steroids: comparison of the binding to the androgen receptors in skeletal muscle and in prostate, as well as to sex hormone-binding globulin. Endocrinology. 1984 Jun;114(6):2100-6.
    4. [Anabolic therapy in metastatic breast cancer] Med Klin. 1981 Nov 20;76(24):689-91. German.
    5. Partial remission and severe adverse effect caused by metenolone acetate in a male patient with aplastic anem. Eur J Haematol. 1995 Jul;55(1):57-8.
    6. Fatal outcome of a patient with severe aplastic anemia after treatment with metenolone acetate. Ann Hematol. 1993 Jul;67(1):41-3.
    7. Metabolic effects of anabolic steroids. Wien Med Wochenschr. 1993;143(14-15):368-75.
    8. Biochim Biophys Acta. 1995 May 11;1244(1):117-20.
    9. Comparative Studies about the influence of Metenolone Acetate and Mesterolone on hypophysis and male gonads. Arzneimittelforshung. 1970 20(4) 545-7








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    Eq always a option if you can resist the hunger pains.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ontopthegame85 View Post
    Eq always a option if you can resist the hunger pains.
    Yeah, I was thinking that would be a decent option but I kind of have my heart set on the Primo in phase 1. Phase 2 I want to run Mast as it has been shown in research to exhibit slight anti-estrogenic effects therefore it is a nice dry cutter with little chance of flaring gyno.





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    Excited to see this heavy as I always wanted to take primo

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    primo 1-12 instead? The longer the better. Do you have your primo yet? Bayer?

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    Personally i think it looks solid, I would maybe consider bumping the gh to 6 or 8 iu ed. With diet right on you have good plan and dont need more chems in my mind. Thats more than enough to preserve muscle mass and aid in fat loss. Maybe add over the counter mix of caffiene, yohimbe. Your plan should have no stress on liver, or anything else, looks g2g.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lordsks View Post
    primo 1-12 instead? The longer the better. Do you have your primo yet? Bayer?
    Yeah, Primo and Mast share some very similar structure so for cost effectiveness I was thinking of switching to Mast at the end but running Primo the whole 12 is another option. Bayer for sure brother.





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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Clen makes me feel like a speed addict so I opt for caffeine instead. I may consider T3 but not sure I want to run it again. I abused T3 pretty hard last year.
    When you get down to it you are very disciplined. I think your cycle looks fine. Big part of it is your diet and consistency in the gym both of which you have. It will actually be good for the board members for you to do the mild cycle and post pics when you peak. then some of the young guys will get the idea that you can do it without everything and the kitchen sink.

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    Quote Originally Posted by littlekev View Post
    Personally i think it looks solid, I would maybe consider bumping the gh to 6 or 8 iu ed. With diet right on you have good plan and dont need more chems in my mind. Thats more than enough to preserve muscle mass and aid in fat loss. Maybe add over the counter mix of caffiene, yohimbe. Your plan should have no stress on liver, or anything else, looks g2g.
    I'm a caffeine/coffee junky when I cut. I love strong coffee.





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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    I'm a caffeine/coffee junky when I cut. I love strong coffee.
    Def, i am learning to utilize compounds and not just run more for more effects and its amazing what just diet on point and caffeine can do. Wish u luck Heavy i am sure your results will be awesome!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glycomann View Post
    When you get down to it you are very disciplined. I think your cycle looks fine. Big part of it is your diet and consistency in the gym both of which you have. It will actually be good for the board members for you to do the mild cycle and post pics when you peak. then some of the young guys will get the idea that you can do it without everything and the kitchen sink.
    Thank you for the kind words brother.

    I want to just stay lean and healthy so I really don't need to do crazy cycles. If I was competing I would up the dose but for a basic summer cut this should be plenty for sure.





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    great cycle..

    i think i will do same for me..
    maybe only replace primo with masteron all the time. i love masteron. i dont feel much from primo.
    and for end tren with testo and winstrol with testo and yes last 4 weeks urgent halotestin!!

    and HGH,LOL

    its my cycle..

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    Quote Originally Posted by World-Pharma.org View Post
    great cycle..

    i think i will do same for me..
    maybe only replace primo with masteron all the time. i love masteron. i dont feel much from primo.
    and for end tren with testo and winstrol with testo and yes last 4 weeks urgent halotestin!!

    and HGH,LOL

    its my cycle..

    I love Masteron as well. I have gyno flares so much that Mast is a VERY good med for guys like me.





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    i can only say masteron for me is best of the best..like halotestin and HGH!
    price of all this 3 meds tell you all why they are good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by World-Pharma.org View Post
    i can only say masteron for me is best of the best..like halotestin and HGH!
    price of all this 3 meds tell you all why they are good!
    Does your shop have Masteron now?





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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Does your shop have Masteron now?
    AP shows in stock. I hope he does. I need some. And anavar!




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    Subliminal WP sales tactic?
    DRSE: SEEK AND DESTROY

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmoe65 View Post
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    No !!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Yeah, Primo and Mast share some very similar structure so for cost effectiveness I was thinking of switching to Mast at the end but running Primo the whole 12 is another option. Bayer for sure brother.

    You won't be disappointed.

    300mg Test C EW
    100mg Primo ED

    That's it!

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    I like it Heavy. I ran Primo at around 500mg EW back in the fall and it really helped in the body recomp phase. (Yes - you are right about Primo hitting the wallet hard in order to run it long enough at an adequate dose) Actually, I started the Primo just as I ended the Masteron and both these compounds worked phenomenally to help me maintain and even gained a little extra musculature when running the reduced calorie diet. And oh yeah - it was the Bayer Schering ampoules. I would only run the BS amps for Primo.

    Currently in my bulk phase, but will follow with a cutter consisting of Test (obviously), EQ at 750-800mg EW, Mast Prop at 600mg EW and Halo (probably last 5 weeks running Halo between 20-40mg ED). Halo is expensive too, wow! Thought about running Tren for the cutter but I ran A LOT of Tren last year and wouldn't mind giving the Tren a rest for a while....(still got one bottle of Tren Ace on hand in case I need my 2-3 week Tren "fix" lol)

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    i love halo in my cycles,for 3-4 weeks for end,30-40mg day
    your body got hard like a rock

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    Quote Originally Posted by XYZ View Post
    You won't be disappointed.

    300mg Test C EW
    100mg Primo ED

    That's it!
    That's an expensive cycle my friend!

    Hit 250mg Primo yesterday. Think I will do 500mg Primo per week till I run out.





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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    I have been on replacement T and GH for about 2 months now. I have gained a few lbs of fat and feel like crap. Basically I have been doing minimal training and cardio. My diet is tight the first 4 meals daily but the last two I eat and drink anything I want (crap). I was thinking about doing a low stress cutting cycle to trim down for summer. I will need to get nutrition and training back in check very soon.

    Weeks 1-8 400mg Test E or C and 400mg Primobolan
    Weeks 9-12 400mg Test Prop and 400mg Masteron
    Weeks 1-12 5iu Uncle Z GH 6 days per week

    1mg adex 4 days per week

    I'm going to do a carb cycle diet and probably only do cardio 4 times per week to start with 4 weight training sessions per week.

    Sunday~rest
    Monday~legs and abs
    Tuesday~cardio
    Wednesday~arms and cardio
    Thursday~off
    Friday~back and cardio
    Saturday~chest, shoulders and cardio

    Been thinking about doing a log as well to stay motivated.
    nice stack bro for my cutting cycle I like to add some IGF-1LR3 around 50mcg-80mcg on training days it will give u some crazy pumps also get a clen and eca u will be fine.

    PS try out IM GH injections

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