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  1. #1
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    DES for injuries or IGF LR3?






    DES for injuries or IGF LR3?
    Anyone have experience with this?

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    DES isn't good for injury as its life is only minutes unlike LR3 life is 20-30 minutes.Iv tried this myself and LR3 was king for this.
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    Yep. LR3 is where it's at.


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    uncle z rep.
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    Typo the lr3 is 20-30 hours.
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    ^^^ sure is.. didn't even notice that.


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    since lr3 active life span is 20-30 hrs, does that mean once per day protocal? is there another pep that has a synergistic properties when run in conjunction with lr3 ?

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    There are nice cycle layouts that leave us open to options.. Here's my favorite,

    IGF Des Pre-workout
    MGF post workout
    wait 15 - 20 mins. pin ghrp/ghrh combo
    15-20 minutes pin IGF lr3

    Peg MGF on your off days.


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    If you want to run just one compound, I highly suggest IGF-1 LR3. If you want to do something that does not require the use of carbs after injection like LR3 does, I suggest a combo of CJC-1295/Ipa or GHRP-2/Ipamorelin. I did the former and I did get some nice relief. Another option my rat is currently getting amazing results from is TB-500, it is once a week.
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    Thank you Pittsburgh63 and oufinny, that helps me narrow my reading to a more specific group of peptides.

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    Happy to help brother.. don't hesitate if you need any questions answered down the road.


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    uncle z rep.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riles View Post
    Thank you Pittsburgh63 and oufinny, that helps me narrow my reading to a more specific group of peptides.
    You must not like my info LOL
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    Quote Originally Posted by aminoman74 View Post
    You must not like my info LOL
    I apologize aminoman74, I appreciate your input also, thank you

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    I think the regular MGF would be a waste for healing an injury other than muscular in nature. The circulation in the white connective tissue is too low for it to actually receive much of it and instead it would be absorbed by damaged muscle tissue instead. However the Peg MGF would be great for injury recovery, and probably more so than IGF-1 Lr3, since MGF is specifically meant to heal and repair damaged tissue. However the 2 of them combined is one hell of a good combination for both healing and growth.

    The TB500 is also supposed to be really good and I know Houston said his elbow has improved even more since he has been on it. Doses are up in the air here. Some say do 10mg week one and 5mg for the next 5 weeks then you find others who do well off of 6 weeks at 2g per week. There is a small amount of anabolism and some elevated fat burning to be experienced as well but it is a secondary effect.
    Kleen - Live hard, Love Hard, Laugh Hard, and Heal Fast!

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    Heres the correct answer to your question..... the above advice is wrong

    TGF-ß during inflammatory phase of the injury, and then DES for tendon repair and growth as it has shown to have the highest ability of collagen synthesis out of the 10 major growth factors that effect tendon repair after injury.

    -T
    Last edited by TwisT; 03-21-2012 at 02:33 PM.


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    Thanks TwisT, I'm affraid when I'm done educating myself on healing specific peps my current injuries will be gtg. Oh well, education is priceless and I wont kid myself about being injury free forever, thanks again

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    Quote Originally Posted by TwisT View Post
    Heres the correct answer to your question..... the above advice is wrong

    TGF-ß during inflammatory phase of the injury, and then DES for tendon repair and growth as it has shown to have the highest ability of collagen synthesis out of the 10 major growth factors that effect tendon repair after injury.

    -T
    Des is great for tendon repair.. but so is LR3. I could pull studies pointing the other direction too... but it's all subjective information for the most part. I appreciate that you don't agree with what was stated above.. But it is far from Wrong.


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    Thanks pit for your last response.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittsburgh63 View Post
    Des is great for tendon repair.. but so is LR3. I could pull studies pointing the other direction too... but it's all subjective information for the most part. I appreciate that you don't agree with what was stated above.. But it is far from Wrong.
    I agree, both are good, but he was asking which is superior.. and DES was shown to have a slightly superior effect in terms of collagen sythesis in a 2010 study... ill do my best to pull it up but they tested all the growths factors, including IGF variants on collagen in humans. Which would make DES, not lr3, the absolute best choice in the (OP: des or lr3 for tendon injury) question. Non-subjective

    I have first hand experience with EGF, Insulin, TGF, AR, and a few IGF's in rats. You can take my word for it
    Last edited by TwisT; 03-21-2012 at 06:03 PM.


  19. #19
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    I can respect that.. I like how you slid that "slightly" in there. LOL. I like des for rehabing a particular problematic area.. but lately now that I'm becoming "middle aged" I prefer LR3. Helps nicely with my acute pains as well as those little aches that plague many of us from years of abusing our joints.

    Where the hell have you been by the way?


  20. #20
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    Youre right, it was "slight". It wasn't by much, but it was enough to be significant and be shown pretty clearly in the data to be able to conclude superiority. Normally, in research if the said difference is small enough, it will normally not be concluded as any "better or worse".

    I Like Lr3 too, but theres just too many cons for me. I like having more control.

    I've been away and very busy working on some research, learning from some seriously brilliant people..makes me look like a toddler. But im trying to be more active around here... I've been slacking i know

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittsburgh63 View Post
    I can respect that.. I like how you slid that "slightly" in there. LOL. I like des for rehabing a particular problematic area.. but lately now that I'm becoming "middle aged" I prefer LR3. Helps nicely with my acute pains as well as those little aches that plague many of us from years of abusing our joints.

    Where the hell have you been by the way?


  21. #21
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    Happy to have you back. Always great to have the opportunity to learn from brilliant minds. I try to leach off of them whenever I have the chance. LOL


  22. #22
    uncle z rep.
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    I used DES for my tendon and it didn't do jack but when I used lr3 it helped alot.I had to spot injected i tho. Right nex to the tendon.
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  23. #23
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    Me too man, I love working with people much smarter then me, you learn so much and very quickly. But sometimes its like they are speaking in another language...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pittsburgh63 View Post
    Happy to have you back. Always great to have the opportunity to learn from brilliant minds. I try to leach off of them whenever I have the chance. LOL


  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by TwisT View Post
    Me too man, I love working with people much smarter then me, you learn so much and very quickly. But sometimes its like they are speaking in another language...
    No doubt.. but i usually respond better to trial by fire. I like getting thrown in over my head. Get sooo much more out of it... plus it holds my interest. If things are slow to even moderately paced, I tend to lose that motivation.


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    spot injection concerns me, is it a must? or just better on a case by case basis? I have gone over it with my PT and his Anatomy books and it just looks like it would be better left to someone more qualified than myself, some tendons look like they would be less hassle than others but my biceps tendon will have to heal on its own, I'm just not that brave

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    Spot injections are necessary for Des.. for LR3 you can pin IM or Subq and it will distribute throughout.


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    Thank you Pittsburgh63

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    Very Welcome Riles.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pittsburgh63 View Post
    There are nice cycle layouts that leave us open to options.. Here's my favorite,

    IGF Des Pre-workout
    MGF post workout
    wait 15 - 20 mins. pin ghrp/ghrh combo
    15-20 minutes pin IGF lr3

    Peg MGF on your off days.
    how long can you run this combo? i mean DES and LR3? do you cycle LR3 every 4-5 wks and keep DES all the time? same for MGF
    is it true that DES,if used 3on 1 off can be used permanently like RS said ?

    thanks!!

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    LR3 should be cycled 4-5 weeks on, then the same off. Des can be run indefinitely when using it for Preworkout only.


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