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msumuscle listen to your senses and to the boneman.....you cannot decide what is going to happen to you based on other's stories..each responds differently ..however you are 22 and it is really stupid to start messing with your hormones and gh etc... you are too young ...starting that young means you are going to do it for a long time and for that reason you might end up messing up your sperm count for good ..and that's not the only thing you can mess up dude....what is going on with you guys is normal training and health out of your dictionnary? ..
here comes the peanut gallery
 
I think the first time I read on this was from a study Dr. Scally referred to but theres alot of studies that say your more likely to have problems after the cycle if you dont run hcg to keep your nuts somewhat active during cycle. basically some studies that have been done say that what happens when you gear up with no hcg is is that your testosterone making cells, decide there is no use for them to do anything and the cells just die off. Then even when you hit up hcg after the cycle in massive doses its still really hard to recover. We do see that people who use hcg during their cycle recover quicker after cycle and this is most likely why. So, If you decide to use aas make sure you run hcg during your cycle along with an AI. Just my 2cents. ohh yea and have EVERYTHING on hand before you start!
 
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Total infertility from heavy anabolic steroids is not very likely - and if it
occurs it is reversable and successful.
A exerpt from a message I posted for
Citruscide on chat:
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum...hreadid=128924


Effect
of androgenic anabolic steroids on sperm quality and serum hormone levels in
adult male bodybuilders.


Torres-Calleja J, Gonzalez-Unzaga M,
DeCelis-Carrillo R, Calzada-Sanchez L, Pedron N.

Unidad de Investigacion
Medica en Biologia de la Reproduccion, Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social,
Mexico, DF.

The purpose of this study was to assess the influence of the
administration of high doses of androgenic anabolic steroids (anabolic steroids)
on endocrine and semen parameters. Thirty volunteering bodybuilders were studied
(ages ranging between 26.6 +/- 4.1 years). A history of anabolic steroid
administration was recorded for fifteen subjects, and results of semen analysis
and endocrine parameters were compared with data from fifteen bodybuilders not
using steroids. In those subjects using anabolic steroids, eight had sperm
counts under the lower normal limit (20 x 10(6) sperm/ml), three had
azoospermia, two polyzoospermia, and two had normal sperm counts. The percentage
of morphologically normal sperm was significantly reduced, only 17.7% had normal
spermatozoa. In the control group, only one subject had oligozoospermia.
The
hormonal parameters revealed reduced FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - (1.5
+/- 3.2 vs 5.0 +/- 1.6, p < 0.001) and PRL (5.1 +/- 4.9 vs 9.2 +/- 4.4, p
< 0.01) levels. lh - leutenizing hormone - , T, E2 and
DHEA levels did not vary.

Reversible hypogonadism
and azoospermia as a result of anabolic-androgenic steroid use in a bodybuilder
with personality disorder. A case report.


Boyadjiev NP, Georgieva
KN, Massaldjieva RI, Gueorguiev SI.

Faculty of Medicine, Department of
Physiology, Plovdiv, Bulgaria.
nutrim@plovdiv.techno-link.com


We report a case of reversible hypogonadism and azoospermia resulting
from anabolic-androgenic steroid abuse in a body-builder with primary
personality disorder. A keen body builder, a 20-year-old man, developed acute
aggressive and destructive behavior after 10-month use of Bionabol (mean total
dose of 1,120 mg per month), and Retabolil (mean total dose of 150 mg per
month). He was found to meet the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders-IV ed. (DSM-IV) criteria for Borderline personality disorder. On
admission to the hospital the clinical profile of the patient showed extremely
low levels of serum testosterone. Values increased to normal levels 10 months
after withdrawal of steroids. The semen was azoospermic at the beginning of the
study period, oligospermic five months later, and reached 20 x 10(6) sperm per
mL ten months after the steroid discontinuation. Anabolic steroids can greatly
affect the male pituitary-gonadal axis. A hypogonadal state, characterized by
decreased serum testosterone and impaired spermatogenesis, was induced in the
patient. This condition was reversible after the steroid withdrawal, but the
process took more than ten months. His personal imbalance could be considered a
personality trait rather than a result of the anabolic-androgenic steroid use.
There were probably dispositional personality characteristics that contributed
to anabolic steroid abuse in our patient. The hypogonadal changes which
occurred after his long-term steroid abuse were for the most part reversible.


The reversibility of anabolic steroid-induced azoospermia.


Turek PJ, Williams RH, Gilbaugh JH 3rd, Lipshultz LI.

Scott
Department of Urology, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA.


Anabolic steroid associated male infertility is a little known but
potentially treatable form of drug related infertility. We report on a
bodybuilder with a 5-year history of steroid use who was azoospermic. He
underwent successful gonadotropin replacement and conception was achieved 3
months after therapy was initiated
. Important diagnostic and therapeutic
considerations in steroid-induced infertility are discussed.

Anabolic
steroids and semen parameters in bodybuilders.


Knuth UA, Maniera H,
Nieschlag E.

Max Planck Clinical Research Unit for Reproductive
Medicine, Munster, Federal Republic of Germany.

The influence of
high-dose anabolic steroid administration on endocrine and semen parameters of
41 bodybuilders (age, 26.7 +/- 0.7 years [mean +/- SEM]; height, 182 +/- 1 cm;
weight, 97.5 +/- 2.0 kg) was investigated. History of anabolic steroid
administration was recorded retrospectively, and results of semen analysis were
compared with data from 41 consecutively recruited normal volunteers not using
any steroids or other drugs. Doses of anabolic steroids taken by bodybuilders
exceeded those generally applied for clinical purposes by up to 40-fold.
Although only 5 of the normal volunteers had sperm counts below the lower normal
limit of 20 x 10(6) sperm/mL, 24 of the bodybuilders showed subnormal values.
Depending on the duration of anabolic steroid use and the period since last drug
intake before the investigation, percentages of motile and normally formed sperm
were significantly reduced in bodybuilders compared with normal volunteers. In
those bodybuilders who had stopped consumption of anabolic steroids greater than
4 months previously, sperm numbers were in the normal range. Results suggest
that even after prolonged use of extremely high doses of anabolic steroids,
sperm production may return to normal
 
wow, !! standard donkey, that was awesome reading, i really enjoyed that, ive been looking for something that informative,
solid bro, thanxs
boneyard.
 
Yeah that was a good read. Did I read the last paragraph right basically saying that the amount of gear isn't as big a factor to suppression as longevity? That was was my original understanding with no backing though.
 
Yeah that was a good read. Did I read the last paragraph right basically saying that the amount of gear isn't as big a factor to suppression as longevity? That was was my original understanding with no backing though.

I would imagine that 750mg of test would shut you down just as hard as 2 grams. I strongly believe that to be the case and i believe i remember reading it somewhere (i cant find the study though)
 
yea ive been spending alot on pct, its getting relentless, i go back in 3 weeks, and yes i tried triperellen twice. guys im still on hcg, clomid and nolvadex. im defanitly getting hmg, i hear good things about it, (promissing). the guy that posted this is 22 and he is having trouble rebounding, im 45, and had a 18 month run so only time will tell.
i ask was it worth it, i lost most my gains anyway, and i started playing with peptides, but could not afford both, i spent my cycle on this pct. yea it does suck.
im going nuts, i want to jump back on, but gotta see this threw. i have 4 more weeks left on hcg, 500iu every other day, and the clomid + nolvadex, ill keep ya posted when my next test comes back, and thank you guys, ive seen all your names b4, and received lots of good info and support from alot of you, thanxs.
bones,

dont know if it you mentioned it or not but are you self treating or have you consulted a doctor?
 
actually today i met a guy who has done everything ...AAS HGH SYnthol you name it ...he is huge ,,,he is maybe 40-42 not sure and he admitted that he has permanent infertility and he is being treated with no results..he has used anabolics and hgh since he was 20......i did not believe it was likely to cause PERMANENT infertility....but this guy proved that it is possible...he was ok before but after 20 years of steroids ...not anymore ..
 
^ It's reversible
that is what i thought ....put our conflicts aside..i am serious about this guy ..at least that is what he told me..he has been under treatment for a while ( he wants babies) but so far nothing ..
but the guy is really big ..he is maybe 5'9 or so and probably more than 250 lbs with relatively low bf and strangely enough small waist ( at least it looked small)
 
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I administer 750mg. - 1500mg of Test E every two weeks and I've done so for six years because I'm a old man and I need it.
I also take d-bol, t-bol, anavar, and anadrol every time I go to the gym without fail. Four Tabs or caps every workout. I don't even PCT because I'm constantly on one long cycle.
I've read all the bullshit about doing steroids for short cycles and worry about losing balls and being shutdown. I have no problems with erections or gonads disappearing.

Almost every time when I have sex with my wife, she says, "Are you trying to get me pregnant" and "I'm too old to pregnant now!". Maybe her pet peeves.
Freeze those sperm cells my good man just in case. Actually, you shouldn't do any steroids at your age. You are going to miss out on all of the glorious testosterone your body will natural produce.
Go from zero to huge on your own stuff within your body until 30 then "juice up" and bring in the first place win. Good Luck to you.
 
dont know if it you mentioned it or not but are you self treating or have you consulted a doctor?

i have been seeing doctors all this time, and have been to all different specialist, got another one in 2 weeks comming up.
they keep shuffling me around because half of them dont know shit about steroids, im serious one guy said he never heard of pct, i was like why are you in this buisness, for the money, im getting more results from a fertility clinic now. if i dont get them to write me a script for hmg, im gonna buy it myself, from what ive read, thats the only shot i got because it stimulates the spertoli cells, and those are the boys who make sperm, ill keep ya posted, thanks, later
bones
 
i have been seeing doctors all this time, and have been to all different specialist, got another one in 2 weeks comming up.
they keep shuffling me around because half of them dont know shit about steroids, im serious one guy said he never heard of pct, i was like why are you in this buisness, for the money, im getting more results from a fertility clinic now. if i dont get them to write me a script for hmg, im gonna buy it myself, from what ive read, thats the only shot i got because it stimulates the spertoli cells, and those are the boys who make sperm, ill keep ya posted, thanks, later
bones

hey bones, just curious if you ended up getting your girl preggo? i know this is an old thread but i'm very curious as to how it turned out after using the hmg!
 
I know trainbig just resurrected this thread but.. I think it's very person dependent.. I hear stories like theboneman and I was worried as well.

Then even after 2 years of blast/cruise in my last week of contest prep (of all times what could be worse) and my girl came off the pill 2 weeks prior to that... it happened. No PCT. Also to note this is 2nd child and I am 27 so I knew I was able to fertilize prior to the events.
 
I know trainbig just resurrected this thread but.. I think it's very person dependent.. I hear stories like theboneman and I was worried as well.

Then even after 2 years of blast/cruise in my last week of contest prep (of all times what could be worse) and my girl came off the pill 2 weeks prior to that... it happened. No PCT. Also to note this is 2nd child and I am 27 so I knew I was able to fertilize prior to the events.

ya for sure man, its definitely different for everyone. i was just curious if he went from not producing to producing. would like to get tested but its kinda expensive. will probably do it next month.
 
Just go get some rocket scientist/athletes' frozen custard.

Having your own biological child is overrated.

Half of us should not procreate anyway.

Have a nice day!
 
Ya no thanks lol im already helping raise someone else's child. Plus im not paying for some other dudes juice. Would rather just not have one if i couldn't create one. Props to those who do though.
 
hi guys, sorry its been so long, i just got back in the game, and id love to re cap some stuff, yea im still on i never came off and yes ive done multiple cycles of every combo u can imagine and alot of them were prescribed from my wifes fertility clinic, we never did conceive, i was trying to explain to you guys that when spertoli cells (semen) shut down theres NO DOCUMENTATION of them going back on, the norm is clomid hmg hcg, etc but alot of bodybuilders are off and the few with kids we dont know if the wife used a donor, my doc instituted these protocols in boston clinics and he told me personally, that this topic is all hush hush and theres thousands of sterile bodybuilders, infact TESTOSTERONE IS NOW PRESCRIBED As a male contraceptive, ILL SAY THAT AGAIN FOR YOU, MALES USE TEST NOW FROM THERE DOCTOR TO PREVENT CHILDBIRTH, IT IS A MALE CONTRACEPTIVE, THAT MEANS THE MEDICAL FIELD RECOGNIZES IT AS A SPERM SHUT OFF.....

MY DOC SHOWED ME THOUSANDS OF CASE STUDIES OF GUYS LIKE US SHUT DOWN, AND SOME KICK THERE TEST BACK ON BUT NOT THERE SPERM, AND CLOMID HCG HMG YOU NAME IT THERES NO CASE NOT ONE WHERE THE GUY TURNED BACK ON..

AND PLEASE, IM NOT LOOKING TO ARGUE ANY POINTS, OR DISAGREE WITH anyone, IM JUST SHARING WITH YOU WHAT HAPPENED TO ME, YES I had full renal failure i was numbr 1 on the transplant list for liver and kidneys, i dropped from 198 ripped to 86 lbs i lived off my muscle or id be dead, i fully recovered, and been doing juice for what 5 yrs now giv or take,

i was pinning cyp every 3rd day and i think i started eod fkn stupid with anavar someone said run 100mgs but it was the oral tren, the worst fkn drug on the market, i was taking them and 2 weeks in my urine turned gold to rust, and i got weak real weak and it was to late kinda clogged the liver and jaundice set in, it was pretty bad, scary shit, i couldnt fucking believe all the shit ive ran that fucking tren shut me off, im running test blend now, eq, a little dbol a little anadrol ands 1 ten mg halotestis, i either run 1 oral around 50mgs or 60 or ill mix a couple and keep them low they actually work great together if you just low dose them, i switch it up, but my advice is not to take a toxic drug for the fuck of it, i only ran it to like top off what i was doing like i use to make believe im getting ready for a show so i peak, if you wanna use it to peak you still run the chance of getting sick in 2 weeks its just the facts i guess, and i aint no pussy, ive ran so much shit it scared people and id say ahhhh tuffen up, but i have to share the truth so im not gonna glorify a bad drug, u can pin tren and its safer, no need to orally take it, i wanted to peak strength i remember.

and instead i was dying, read me my last rights and mom ordered me a casket it was that real, no hope, nothing, and i believe god touched me and said get up and i healed that fast so im grateful to whoever that was, i had 13 doctors that said we were waiting to shut machines off, u couldnt even breathe, WOW just thinking of this again makes me grateful and grateful for this forum, i had guys pulling for me my wife use to log on and read me post, she say heres another one says bones stray strong, and i couldnt even stand , i pee in a fkn tube, and u guys became my fkn strentgh, even if it was negative it gave me the strentgh to argue with you hahahaha.
thank you, if ive never thanked you, i am now, im grateful for the members who cared and didnt even know me, and the ones that turned there backs on me also gave me the strentgh to prove i never hurt anyone, and just repped for a source that actually got popped one day and when guys said i was this or that it wasnt true so they made me so mad i fought for my reputation and got back on the forum and and im still fukn here..... i never turn my back on a friend or fukem over and im happy for the men who stood by me,,,,,

THANK YOU ONE AND ALL FOR BEING THERE WHEN I NEEDED SOMEONE THE MOST !!!!
these forums are made up of people the good the bad and the ugly, and the good always prevails i got some solid bros in my world and i thank this forum
 
and theres many who do conceive on gear, i had 3 daughters while juicing pretty heavy.... i think we were talking about end results or the possibility of long term test use... how long was you cylcling b4 pregnancy, i had a couple yrs on and banged out three, then about 5 yrs on after 3rd kid tried for a boy and never happened, so im just stating alot of case studies and proof today that and can and it will shut you off eventually, theres just to much proof to many bodybuilders, 5 yrs ago there were over 500.000 bodybuilders sterile, im sure its more today, and if there prescribing test as a contraceptive then the medical field is agreeing it will shut your spertoli cells down eventually. but im just sharing like you were and i respect your input, ofcourse.
i participated in research at the clinic, and met so many guys sterile and each one used test, not one guy said hey im sterile just because lol, and im sure there out there, but the cases are by hundreds of thousands now, see what you can come up with try dr abraham in mass i believe hes got a ton of research... i always believed your test would shut down, which it does, but it goes deeper and its something to research if your bodybuilding with test long term
 
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you asked for my opinion, ill give you an honest one, im 45 yrs old look at some of my threads, im sterile from steroids, and after 7 months of serious pct, im still sterile w/ a zero sperm count, my wife is cursing me she's 38 and wants a kid and all i hear is thats all i ask from you and you cant do it for me, sometimes it bothers me too, i ran test for about 18 months and im having serious fertility problems.

do i think you should blast and cruise at 22, no i dont, some day you may be married and your wife might ask for children, what are you gonna tell her ?? i wanted to look good and shut my system down, it really is not worth losing your manhood, cause thats how i feel.
you got a whole life ahead of you, and you have plenty of cycles still ta do, but you really should put your health first, i hope i didnt insult you in anyway, i was being honest, i almost died last year from liver failure, and laying there dying, my wife asked me, why ?? why did you do this to yourself, i wanted to share that with you, thats the reality about steroids, theres a time and place for them when used properly.

i personaly started juiceing it up early thirties, you are your own man, you gotta make that decision, then you gotta live with those consequences.
good luck 2u.
bones

edited, these guys just hit it on the nail, there are options, hcg ran w/ it, or invitro, theres always alternatives, just remember, your gonna live with the outcome


i agree with the post, now you are 22 yd, my position its if you go on roids, dont go longer that 10 weeks and make a good PCT, take a 12 weeks rest between cyccles, check your hormones, LFS and LH andd free test.
 
?MY DOC SHOWED ME THOUSANDS OF CASE STUDIES OF GUYS LIKE US SHUT DOWN, AND SOME KICK THERE TEST BACK ON BUT NOT THERE SPERM, AND CLOMID HCG HMG YOU NAME IT THERES NO CASE NOT ONE WHERE THE GUY TURNED BACK ON..? I call 100% bullshit on this. Dig a little deeper

I was on trt for 7 years and cycled the entire time. We decided we wanted to try for a baby. Went to the dr, I was steril, ran a protocol and became fertile. Whoever says it?s impossible is full of shit or repeating what they read. Theboneman, I would suggest getting another dr if he thinks once you become sterile from steroids that you cannot become fertile. I am the proof and there are many others that can prove you and your dr wrong. Try doing more research before you spit out things you know nothing about.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
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Dave Palumbo has a fertility protocol posted on youtube which requires coming completely off, proper pct, hcg, and hmg. The infamous Boston Loyd has a protocol with higher dosages, but does not require coming off test and he successfully got his girl pregnant, who also competed and used drugs. I am sure either protocol could work for lucky ones and be ineffective for others. It really just comes down to how much risk you're okay with. Not to mention hmg is expensive and can be difficult to obtain.
 
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