Supreme Court upholds Obama health care law

[irish_2003]

...gov't hand in healthcare...why not...they've done amazing with social security and medicare and controlling spending and debt

 

[heckler7]

All of a sudden I feel ever so much better about the government taking even more money from me to redistribute it to other people that didn't earn it.

you already do its your taxes. explain why its ok that illegals can take their kids to the doctor for free and I have to pay cash. That is what our taxes pay for now. I work my ass off and because I'm white I have to pay extra for shit or be denied services that freeloaders get for nothing.

 

[DOMS]

you already do its your taxes. explain why its ok that illegals can take their kids to the doctor for free and I have to pay cash. That is what our taxes pay for now. I work my ass off and because I'm white I have to pay extra for shit or be denied services that freeloaders get for nothing.

It's not okay. Illegals should be left in the street to die.

There is no way around the fact that this bill is going to cost more and required more taxes to pay for it. Taxes that will primarily come from middle class people like me.

 

[Nightowl]

We are officially the Communist States of America now.

Pretty much close to it! I heard in some states this shite' doesn't exist. ( I should have asked what states?!?)

Open Question: Do you feel this communist state is helped or brought forth by religion?

 

[bio-chem]

What you pay won't go up unless the insurance company and your employer raise what you already pay.

What the healthcare law basically says is "If you don't already have a healthcare plan that you pay in to then you need to get one."

A 906 page bill and you were able to boil it down into a sentence? Much like the men and women who voted for it, the American people have no idea what is in that law.

 

[DOMS]

A 906 page bill and you were able to boil it down into a sentence? Much like the men and women who voted for it, the American people have no idea what is in that law.

You know what is important? That Obama crafted his bill, the health care and big pharma companies didn't like it, so he retooled it in back door meetings. Now the corporations like it.

It can't be good for us

 

[bio-chem]

You know what is important? That Obama crafted his bill, the health care and big pharma companies didn't like it, so he retooled it in back door meetings. Now the corporations like it.

It can't be good for us

they hated it right up until he added the mandate. The mandate effectively guaranteed 80 million new customers. The answer is not to move to a one payer system. the answer is not to increase government interference. The answer is to have more competition. As always in capitalism the rich and powerful (evil insurance companies) need to be forced to compete with each other on the open market.

 

[bandaidwoman]

Medicare is a completely flawed system that limits care options; I know this from family members who have to use "alternative medications" that are approved by medicare instead of what the patient needs. Anyone who has used the VA hospitals can guarantee this as a reality. There is surely a better system but medicare doesn't pay doctors and hospitals on time among so many other problems I am repeatedly told by healthcare professionals like yourself.

medicare pays me in exactly two weeks. They pay me less but I have only one personell dealing with them. I have 12 office people filing for private insurance that I have to refile over and over and over again and I am lucky if they pay me in three months. I pay these twelve people workman's comp, unmeployment tax, dental and medical insurance. My average EOB medicare pays me 100 bucks. I use up maybe 3-10 bucks paying that one person to deal with its charges and collections. Blue Cross blue shield pays me 138$ for my average EOB, by the time I have refiled and begged for my payement and it arrives after 5 months, ( paying the two office managers and 12 office personell) it boils down to less than 100 bucks. With medicare, I don't have to beg medicare permission to order an echo when I hear a grade 4 systolic ejection murmer in the right upper sternal border with a fixed S2 split. I have to give some highschool moron working for BCBS cardiac auscultation lessons begging permission to order one at 3 pm while my 2:30 is waiting ( they won't accept precerts after office hours). This is why I belong to PNHP


I can send a Medicare patient to the best bone marrow transplant hospital in atlanta, I had to send my Kaiser patients to a shitty one that has 85% success rate vs over 96% success rate, who has more choice?

Medicaid is shit, but that is on the state level.

For the record, illegals have to pay me cash in my office just like everyone else, and guess what , they actually pay me, they don't walk out the back with their check out sheet. The emergency room treats anyone without health insurance for free, illegal or not, and most of the uninsured are still U.S. citizens...

 

[maniclion]

It's sets a foundation. If the government can mandate that we ALL have to carry health insurance, what else will they be able to mandate? Food we eat? (Ask Bloomberg) The cars we drive (Chevy Volt) This HC Bill is NOT free. It's going to add an insane amount of money to the debt and the bill will be paid for by the individuals who work for a living. NOTHING is free. Nothing. Why should I have to pay for someone elses HC?

If you are paying for Health Insurance and are a healthy person with a healthy lifestyle, chances are they are using what you pay into it to pay for those gelatinous beasts who gorge themselves on triple bacon cheeseburgers and milkshakes everyday and can't figure out why they're always sick....

 

[bandaidwoman]

exactly, the individual mandate was basic economics. If the private insurances are forced to not practice recinssion, deny coverage for pre-existing etc. etc. etc.( which is the ethical and right thing to do) they must be gauranteed a pool of healthy people who will purchase their products so they don't hemmorage losses This was the dem's version of the repub TARP plan, both corporate welfare, except the insurance companies were not floundering like the banks.....

 

[Zaphod]

So, pray tell, where's the money going to come from?

The money is going to be coming from people paying into their healthcare plan.

 

[Zaphod]

Now the government will decide for you, life or death. Treat or not to treat. Let's see, look how well they run the postal system, and social security. You really think you're better off? Think again.

2) Pg 30, Sec 123 states that there will be a government committee that decides what treatments you are allowed and what your overall benefits are.

You're a fucking moron if you honestly think it is government run healthcare. If anyone decides whether you live or die it will be up to you and your healthcare company.

People keep buying into the propaganda without ever checking facts. That's why this country is so fucked up.

 

[Zaphod]

2) Pg 30, Sec 123 states that there will be a government committee that decides what treatments you are allowed and what your overall benefits are.

I forgot about this part. Have you actually seen what it says on page 30 or is this a copy and paste?

Here is what page 30 says:

Sec. 1004 PPACA (Consolidated) 30
??(A) develop fee schedules and other database tools
that fairly and accurately reflect market rates for medical
services and the geographic differences in those rates;
??(B) use the best available statistical methods and
data processing technology to develop such fee schedules
and other database tools;
??(C) regularly update such fee schedules and other
database tools to reflect changes in charges for medical
services;
??(D) make health care cost information readily available
to the public through an Internet website that allows
consumers to understand the amounts that health care
providers in their area charge for particular medical services;
and
??(E) regularly publish information concerning the statistical
methodologies used by the center to analyze health
charge data and make such data available to researchers
and policy makers.
??(2) CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.?A center established under
subsection (c)(1)(C) shall adopt by-laws that ensures that the
center (and all members of the governing board of the center)
is independent and free from all conflicts of interest. Such bylaws
shall ensure that the center is not controlled or influenced
by, and does not have any corporate relation to, any individual
or entity that may make or receive payments for health care
services based on the center?s analysis of health care costs.
??(3) RULE OF CONSTRUCTION.?Nothing in this subsection
shall be construed to permit a center established under subsection
(c)(1)(C) to compel health insurance issuers to provide
data to the center.??.
SEC. 1004 ?42 U.S.C. 300gg?11 note?. EFFECTIVE DATES.
(a) IN GENERAL.?Except as provided for in subsection (b), this
subtitle (and the amendments made by this subtitle) shall become
effective for plan years beginning on or after the date that is 6
months after the date of enactment of this Act, except that the
amendments made by sections 1002 and 1003 shall become effective
for fiscal years beginning with fiscal year 2010.
(b) SPECIAL RULE.?The amendments made by sections 1002
and 1003 shall take effect on the date of enactment of this Act.
Subtitle B?Immediate Actions to Preserve
and Expand Coverage
SEC. 1101 ?42 U.S.C. 18001?. IMMEDIATE ACCESS TO INSURANCE FOR
UNINSURED INDIVIDUALS WITH A PREEXISTING CONDITION.
(a) IN GENERAL.?Not later than 90 days after the date of enactment
of this Act, the Secretary shall establish a temporary high
risk health insurance pool program to provide health insurance
coverage for eligible individuals during the period beginning on the
date on which such program is established and ending on January
1, 2014.
(b) ADMINISTRATION.?
VerDate

 

[DOMS]

The money is going to be coming from people paying into their healthcare plan.

You mean the middle class. Just like I was saying.

Source.

 

[Zaphod]

A better approach would be to regulate the industry, not put it in the hand of people that have been shown to fuck things up.

Just because I'm getting financially raped by the wealthy, doesn't mean that I want to get it from the poor, too.

You're right though, the real problem is the corporations, their special interest groups, and bought-off politicians. That's where real health care reform needs to start. Which, by the way, Obama has made even worse during his administration.

The government will not regulate the industry and it sure as hell isn't going to self-regulate.

 

[DOMS]

The government will not regulate the industry and it sure as hell isn't going to self-regulate.

I'm talking about real regulation and not the shitty special-interest-groups-tell-us-how-to-regulate crap that Washington has been pushing out at least since the mid-80s.

 

[Zaphod]

People Who Say They're Moving To Canada Because Of ObamaCare

Not a single one will.

 

[Zaphod]

the difference is romney has admitting repeatedly that his plan was a mistake and there's alot he'd do differently...the liberals would NEVER admit they made a mistake...they are perfect and it's always the rights fault and they never do anything wrong...think about how terrible it was in hawaii too...families dropped their private coverage for the cheaper state plan and it went bankrupt in less than 2 years...there's other examples...

He only says it was a mistake because it's politically convenient. Romney should just finish the job and put a scoop of ice cream on his head and be the waffle cone that he is.

 

[Zaphod]

A 906 page bill and you were able to boil it down into a sentence? Much like the men and women who voted for it, the American people have no idea what is in that law.

Not at all. I covered one part that is the most grief for people who can't be bothered to read it. If you can't be bothered to read it you deserve what you get.

 

[Zaphod]

You mean the middle class. Just like I was saying.

Source.

Only in extreme cases will people be getting assistance with their healthcare plan. You won't be taxed more, there won't be a government run healthcare plan except for Medicare and Medicaid, there won't be death panels, there won't be clandestine paramilitary forces, the government won't be deciding what your plan will or will not pay, etc.

Quit buying into the propaganda. You're smarter than that.

The healthcare act is far from perfect but it isn't what the GOP has said it is.

 

[Zaphod]

I'm talking about real regulation and not the shitty special-interest-groups-tell-us-how-to-regulate crap that Washington has been pushing out at least since the mid-80s.

I know that is what you are talking about, but unless there is some act of God the demolishes the federal and state governments we're screwed. Until then just put on your cape because you're that new superhero, Captain Fucked.

 

[oufinny]

exactly, the individual mandate was basic economics. If the private insurances are forced to not practice recinssion, deny coverage for pre-existing etc. etc. etc.( which is the ethical and right thing to do) they must be gauranteed a pool of healthy people who will purchase their products so they don't hemmorage losses This was the dem's version of the repub TARP plan, both corporate welfare, except the insurance companies were not floundering like the banks.....

This is a half assed explanation. There is no true competition and one of the biggest issues, you being a doctor I cannot believe have not mentioned by the way, is tort reform like what is in place in Indiana. It limits costs associated with mal practice, must be why so many great physicians practice there or so I am told by someone with 37 years of nursing experience (the real source of unbiased knowledge, not doctors). My other point, there is no interstate commerce, that was left out because it allowed for state monopolies by the insurance companies. They would actually have to compete and face the real world like so many other businesses do with national and global competition. Does your basic point about needing more people to offset losses make sense, without question, did they leave out the key issue that has great potential to drive down costs, you better believe it because that would mean less profits. And a lot of these companies don't even pay much tax either, its not corrupt at all, like the FDA.

 

[heckler7]

Wheres Romney on auto insurance, I'm forced to have it or the government imposes a huge fine and takes my drivers license. Its unconstitutional and a form of communisn started by Hitler, you'll notice the DMV is mirrorred after the gestapo

 

[oufinny]

Only in extreme cases will people be getting assistance with their healthcare plan. You won't be taxed more, there won't be a government run healthcare plan except for Medicare and Medicaid, there won't be death panels, there won't be clandestine paramilitary forces, the government won't be deciding what your plan will or will not pay, etc.

Quit buying into the propaganda. You're smarter than that.

The healthcare act is far from perfect but it isn't what the GOP has said it is.

So when the CBO scores this bill and says it will add hugely to the debt and be 1/6-1/5 of GDP, that is all propoganda right? Cause they are right when they say the GOP budgets don't raise revenue which is convenient for a political argument but we can't use that, its propoganda. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Like you and LAM say all the time, facts are facts, you can dismiss them or be ignorant. The facts are this bill is going to be a massive expense just in the people to bring it to fruition and there will be large costs for the uninsured that the government will have to cover. These are facts, you can't insure people without incurring expense and last I checked the government isn't a for profit organization, they actually are doing pretty well at racking up the debt after 12 years of bad leadership.

 

[bio-chem]

Not at all. I covered one part that is the most grief for people who can't be bothered to read it. If you can't be bothered to read it you deserve what you get.

Anyone want to make a guess on the amount of people who have actually read the entire 906 page bill? care to guess how many of our elected officials read the thing? I've spoken with one person whose read it front to back. Guy was a CMIO, at a major IDN i've worked with. He got done and didn't have too many good things to say about it

 

[Zaphod]

Anyone want to make a guess on the amount of people who have actually read the entire 906 page bill? care to guess how many of our elected officials read the thing? I've spoken with one person whose read it front to back. Guy was a CMIO, at a major IDN i've worked with. He got done and didn't have too many good things to say about it

I, too, have read it. There are some things that are good, but in such a huge bill there's going to be a lot of crap that really shouldn't be in there.

 

[Zaphod]

So when the CBO scores this bill and says it will add hugely to the debt and be 1/6-1/5 of GDP, that is all propoganda right? Cause they are right when they say the GOP budgets don't raise revenue which is convenient for a political argument but we can't use that, its propoganda. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Like you and LAM say all the time, facts are facts, you can dismiss them or be ignorant. The facts are this bill is going to be a massive expense just in the people to bring it to fruition and there will be large costs for the uninsured that the government will have to cover. These are facts, you can't insure people without incurring expense and last I checked the government isn't a for profit organization, they actually are doing pretty well at racking up the debt after 12 years of bad leadership.

Just 12 years? Blame the large GDP being spent on healthcare on the insurance industry.

 

[heckler7]

Romneycare, dont forget where it started

 

[LAM]

Which is hypocritical because in 2009, Barack Obama scolded an interviewer for asking if this was a tax. He said it was not a tax and never would be. Now, the SCOTUS rules that it is a tax which effectively makes this the largest tax increase in history. As I said, sad day for America.

in the long run it will decrease healthcare costs for many at the EOL due to preventive care and lifetime health monitoring

I think the saddest day in US history was when the Bush admin allocated the whopping sum of 600K to fund the 9-11 Commission, but that is obviously a different topic of debate.

 

[maniclion]

So when the CBO scores this bill and says it will add hugely to the debt and be 1/6-1/5 of GDP, that is all propoganda right? Cause they are right when they say the GOP budgets don't raise revenue which is convenient for a political argument but we can't use that, its propoganda. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Like you and LAM say all the time, facts are facts, you can dismiss them or be ignorant. The facts are this bill is going to be a massive expense just in the people to bring it to fruition and there will be large costs for the uninsured that the government will have to cover. These are facts, you can't insure people without incurring expense and last I checked the government isn't a for profit organization, they actually are doing pretty well at racking up the debt after 12 years of bad leadership.

If people are being fined by the gov for not having insurance how is the gov paying for uninsured people? Is their any reading comprehension going on here or are half of you clinging to soundbites you heard from your favorite partisan rabble rousing cheerleader?