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Newbie needs nutrition review

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  1. #1
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    Newbie needs nutrition review






    First of all, glad to be a part of the group!...Wondering If I could get some feedback on my nurition intake.

    Sex:Male
    Age:26
    Height:5'10"
    Weight:171 lbs.
    BFP: 18% Est.
    Weight Training Frequency:4-5 Days a week, Currently No Cardio
    LongTerm Goal: 200 lbs. 10% BFP


    Wake Up-8:00 a.m.

    Meal 1-9:00 a.m.

    12 Eggwhites
    40g Old Fashioned Oatmeal
    1 Green Apple
    1 tsp. Highest Lignan Flax Seed Oil

    Meal 2-12:00 p.m.

    Protein/Carbohydrate Mix in Water
    1/2 Slice 3 Grain Whole Bread

    Meal 3-3:00 p.m.

    14 oz. Chicken Breast
    6 oz. Potato
    30 Spears Fresh Asparagus

    Meal 4-6:00 p.m.

    6 oz. Chicken Breast
    1 Cup Texmati Rice
    1/2 Slice 3 Grain Whole Bread

    Pre-Workout-7:30 p.m.
    10g Creatine in Water

    Meal 5 Post-Workout-9:00 p.m.

    6 oz. Chicken Breast
    6 Eggwhites

    Meal 6-11:00 p.m.

    48g Protein Powder

    1:00 a.m. Bedtime
    *1 Gallon Water Daily

    Totals:

    Calories:2870.5
    Fat:39.32 12.33%
    Protein:370.5g 51.62% Animal Source:344.3g 47.98%
    Carbohydrates:233g 32.47%

    A local IFBB Pro designed this program about a year ago when training days meant morning workouts. However, when I train alone, it has always been between 7-8 p.m. I think I may need some carbohydrates in my post-workout meal, I'm just not sure of the amount and the source. Also, I plan to increase may caloric intake as I grow, this is just my current nutrition plan. I am sure there can be many suggestions; any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
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    First, Welcome to the Board


    Good Reading:

    http://ironmagazineforums.com/showth...?threadid=5121


    DP

  3. #3
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    Re: Newbie needs nutrition review

    Originally posted by ALIENEGYPT
    First of all, glad to be a part of the group!...Wondering If I could get some feedback on my nurition intake.

    Sex:Male
    Age:26
    Height:5'10"
    Weight:171 lbs.
    BFP: 18% Est.
    Weight Training Frequency:4-5 Days a week, Currently No Cardio
    LongTerm Goal: 200 lbs. 10% BFP


    Wake Up-8:00 a.m.

    Meal 1-9:00 a.m.

    12 Eggwhites
    40g Old Fashioned Oatmeal
    1 Green Apple
    1 tsp. Highest Lignan Flax Seed Oil


    Try adding 2 yolks here to bring the your fat up to 20 grams, so 8 whites and two whole eggs

    Meal 2-12:00 p.m.

    Protein/Carbohydrate Mix in Water
    1/2 Slice 3 Grain Whole Bread

    5-6 frozen strawberries and 3-4 T of heavy cream, or 1 T of flax oil here, NO BREAD T= TBLS

    Meal 3-3:00 p.m.

    14 oz. Chicken Breast
    6 oz. Potato
    30 Spears Fresh Asparagus

    Too much protein for your BW...chicken is 6 P per ounce uncoked, 8-9 P/oz cooked....lower to 8-10 oz, make that a sweet potato or yam, add butter or an oil based dressing to bring total fat to 15-20 grams per meal

    Meal 4-6:00 p.m.

    6 oz. Chicken Breast
    1 Cup Texmati Rice
    1/2 Slice 3 Grain Whole Bread

    add greens/veggies, fat, ditch the bread

    Pre-Workout-7:30 p.m.
    10g Creatine in Water

    Many don't respond in water, about 1/3......ask for options if you don't

    Meal 5 Post-Workout-9:00 p.m.

    6 oz. Chicken Breast
    6 Eggwhites

    fine for now, we may want to add fat and fiber later depending how you respond to the other increases..leaves us somewhere ot go

    Meal 6-11:00 p.m.

    48g Protein Powder

    Fat is crucial at this point, 15 grams, either 3 T of Cream, or 1 T of flax oil

    1:00 a.m. Bedtime
    *1 Gallon Water Daily

    Totals:

    Calories:2870.5
    Fat:39.32 12.33%
    Protein:370.5g 51.62% Animal Source:344.3g 47.98%
    Carbohydrates:233g 32.47%

    Suggests too little fat for gains and hardening

    A local IFBB Pro designed this program about a year ago when training days meant morning workouts. However, when I train alone, it has always been between 7-8 p.m. I think I may need some carbohydrates in my post-workout meal, I'm just not sure of the amount and the source. Also, I plan to increase may caloric intake as I grow, this is just my current nutrition plan. I am sure there can be many suggestions; any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.
    Water to 5-6 Liters may be better!

    Post W/O nutrition is subjective here, because of your BF levels, I would w8 before experimenting with a PWO spike until you are in the 10-12% ranges.....hopefully you didn't just adopt this plan and worked into it, if this is a lot more food for you, be more gradually as you can/will accummulate fat!

    Good Luck!


    DP

  4. #4
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    Hey Dr. Pain, I sincerely appreciate your response...When you describe 3-4 Tablespoons of Cream, what kind would you recommend?...I will try some of these changes and see where it takes me. Once again, thanks for your time.

  5. #5
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    Your welcome...

    It's known as Heavy Cream, you can search it here at IM (for more info)....has a profile of 5 grams of fat, .7 grams of carbs per Tbls

    DP

  6. #6
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    would w8 before experimenting with a PWO spike until you are in the 10-12% ranges....
    Why? The sugars in the post-workout spike are used in muscle glycogen restoration. They also increase GH levels post-workout! This is the ONLY time that insulin does this to GH. Also, this causes the release of IGF-1 (IGF-1 owns you). Plus it bumps you out of catabolism. Even on a cut, your goal is to lose fat, but it is also your goal to MAINTAIN THE LBM YOU HAVE!

    Fluid

  7. #7
    Patrick
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    Actually fluid I think you have it backwards. I believe that the release of HGH is inhibited in the face of an insulin spike (someone please correct me on this if I am wrong). Also, an insulin spike post w/o is going to halt fat burning, which isn't what you want if you are trying to cut. In my opinion protein and something to spare the protein, either fat or slow burning carbs (to keep insulin levels stable) post w/o is optimal.
    Optimum Sports Performance

    "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few."
    -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

  8. #8
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    I believe that the release of HGH is inhibited in the face of an insulin spike (someone please correct me on this if I am wrong).
    True, however, after an intense workout insulin has been shown to enhance GH.

    Also, an insulin spike post w/o is going to halt fat burning, which isn't what you want if you are trying to cut.
    Losing fat is all about the diet, not post-workout spike. You're only asking to lose muscle by not spiking.

  9. #9
    Patrick
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    Losing fat is all about the diet, not post-workout spike. You're only asking to lose muscle by not spiking.
    Right, fat loss is all about the diet, not the post w/o spike. However, lose of muscle is also all about the diet, not the post w/o spike. Whether you spike insulin or not, as long as you spare protein somehow (fat or slow burning carbs)you will not lose muscle. Overall daily caloric and macronutrient intake is what is important. An insulin spike is not neccessary.

    True, however, after an intense workout insulin has been shown to enhance GH.
    I don't know if I can call it a truce.....the way i undertand it is when there is too much insulin in your blood the body's reaction is to release somatostatin. Somatostatin supresses insulin release and growth hormone release.
    Last edited by P-funk; 04-06-2003 at 08:21 AM.
    Optimum Sports Performance

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  10. #10
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    Gentlemen...I'm not entering the fray..you all know our position on this...but I will offer some fuel for thought.....kind of like saying something I have, but with a different twist.

    Yes, insulin does supress serum cortisol...BUT...this is largely over-rated and if you are an individual w/such a problem, so does glutamine or BCAA's

    Higher Insulin stops fat oxidation cold..for 2-3 hours...., to get back to where you would have been means 4-6 hours.... Insulin and glucagon are almost opposite reactions.....see glucagon/leptin/ghrelin

    Excess insulin...esp insulin that an IR person would produce to say more than 25 grams of simple sugars (actually we don't know how little or how much) from the combination of PWO carbs and and hepatic gluconeogenesis from the PWO protein (see Insulin Index), converts to a triglyceride, glycerol and then adipose tissue ITSELF!

    While we do know glycogen/amino peptide uptake is enhanced by PWO nutrition.....thereby in theory enhances recovery. We also know that a constant amino peptide flow (eating protein, with fat/fiber to slow down gastric emptying, reducing gluconeogenesis)...helps maintain POSITIVE Nitrogen Balance).

    So while glycogen replacement/depositon may be slowed w/o PWO spiking...(not spiking a good thing in my opinion to enhance glucagon/fat oxidation).......we also know that adequate daily macronutrients will eventually..(although not as rapidly) do the same thing!


    As far as HGH....if you are that concerned.....daytime release is infintesimal compared to night time....RULE ONE...Sleep better, as stage 3 and 4 REM sleep induces GH...Avoiding Carbos at night also is proven to help as P-Funk states, which empirically means don't eat protein alone...as 58.5% can be converted to serum glucose...raising insulin levels....etc


    *** (My understanding here is that GH is released about 20-25 minutes into an exercise bout, and after 40-45 minutes, depleted and surpressed by continued exercise....(think about this...lower ATP, lower CP, lower glycogen, lower serum glucose, higher Lactate......ALL contributed to the environment that spurred GH)

    Exercise in 74 to 76 degree F temperatures. w8 also recently reviewed w/me some literature that GH release is enhanced in a high lactic acid enviroment....and we have always known that heavy compound movement in a certain rep range enhance this...although I am still unconvinced the serum cortisol from sprinting doesn't offset the GH benefit from the higher LA concentratation


    NOW THE IMPORTANT PART:

    I figured out long ago...that much of this controversy exists because of differences in the metabolic types that are expressing/spewing/studying these topics! Non IR people, just don't "get it"...they usually assume if it works for so and so "athlete" and it works for me...then "this is how it is! IR people don't "get it", because "it's" working for the people who "they want to look like!" Except that THAT (the transformation) never happens, INSULIN RESISTANCE and INSULIN, hence PWO insulin spiking is in their way.

    On the flip side......IR techniques work for everyone (slow burners/fats as needed)......PWO spiking does work well for lean Ecto's (not fat Ecto's, and I see them all of the time), Ecto-Meso's and most Meso's (about 20-25% or the populus).....if you have excess BF, have any Endomorphic qualities, genes or tendencies (parents, siblings, GP's..the other 75-80 % of the population BTW!)

    .....I'm not even suggesting anymore...you have to say to yourself.."Self, IS THIS WORKING?".......and when you realize that it is or it isn't, take the appropriate action!

    CheerS

    DP

    Last edited by w8lifter; 04-06-2003 at 09:26 AM.

  11. #11
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    Prince...If you could find someone to edit this, provide some research citations..and then another one or two individuals to write on the contrary side...I think this would make a good article..

    "The Pros and Cons of PWO Insulin Spiking"

    JMHO

  12. #12
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    I've always had much better results when I spike. Without spiking I feel terrible. I would rather inhibit fat loss that lose muscle.

    click here - PWO Nutrition

    Fluid

  13. #13
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    Originally posted by Fluid
    I've always had much better results when I spike.

    Fluid
    I've gained almost ten pounds of muscle in the past year w/o any spike....bodyfat has been up and down due to bulking/cutting over the year...but at the moment I'm still 10lbs heavier than last year at this time w/ a similar bodyfat

  14. #14
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    ------------

    I once saw a board divided over 'Cardio" too....ummm...same board had PWO issues too....they had to Close "Hell Unleashed" which addressed this issue, and DELETE 9995 of my posts.

    In a bulk w/the right somatotpye/genetics and metabolism...PWO spike is so beneficial....On maintenance, some get away w/it, some don't....on a cut.....usually only the strongest, or "enhanced" metabolisms get any kind of results w/it....others don't, slows BF loss to much!!

    JMHO!

    DP
    Last edited by Dr. Pain; 04-06-2003 at 01:03 PM.

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