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Time from last inject to PCT, tren, prop, mast, anavar

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    Time from last inject to PCT, tren, prop, mast, anavar

    Stopped tren and mast weeks ago, now just testosterone propionate and anavar. How many days do you wait from last test p to starting PCT?

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    If you have nolva, you could start it right away(in theory).. The test is no very suppressive, and it will be out soon enough. As long as the e2 from any aromatization is either blocked(nolva) and/or eliminated(AI)(though the combo will work better).. you can start pct... what do you have laid out for it?


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    It was the tren I was worried about being suppressive. Here is what I had laid out for it:

    5,000 iu HCG before PCT
    Clomid: 100/100/75/75/50/50
    Nolva: 40/40/40/20/20/20
    Aromasin: 25 mg ED

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    3 days after last injection.
    I dont like an ai in pct.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyinkedup View Post
    3 days after last injection.
    I was thinking 3 or 4 days.
    I dont like an ai in pct.
    How do you get your estrogen down? Doesn't a high estrogen level signal your body to stop producing testosterone?

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    How is your estrogen level high with virtually zero test to aromatize to estrogen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyinkedup View Post
    How is your estrogen level high with virtually zero test to aromatize to estrogen?
    I do not know how long it takes for elevated estrogen levels to decline on their own with no ai, so I cannot answer your question.

    So why do you not like an ai in PCT?

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    Run ai up to pct ....there wil be no estrogen..there is no test o aromatize. It relies on negative feedback to force the body to produce test. A condition already present since there is no estrogen present. Plus with serms blocking e recptoer forcing production of GnRH which forces production of LH /FSH ..then test.he ai is totally unnecessary. Dr Scally - the foremost specialist on treating steroid induced andro pause (shutdown) has peer reviewed published studies and hundreds of case studies. He recommend clomid and novladex to be most effective. No ai
    Last edited by Jimmyinkedup; 09-07-2012 at 10:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    Stopped tren and mast weeks ago, now just testosterone propionate and anavar. How many days do you wait from last test p to starting PCT?
    start pct 3-4 days after last testp shot
    i rec 4wks 50mg clomid 20mg tamox ed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyinkedup View Post
    Run ai up to pct ....there wil be no estrogen..there is no test o aromatize. It relies on negative feedback to force the body to produce test. A condition already present since there is no estrogen present. Plus with serms blocking e recptoer forcing production of GnRH which forces production of LH /FSH ..then test.he ai is totally unnecessary. Dr Scally - the foremost specialist on treating steroid induced andro pause (shutdown) has peer reviewed published studies and hundreds of case studies. He recommend clomid and novladex to be most effective. No ai
    Ok, I realize Dr. Scally recommends Nolva, but I am thinking that your assumption that there is no estrogen is wrong. There is a guy posting here in this forum right now about his recovery, and he has high estrogen with low testosterone. His second test, just posted recently, shows that his testosterone is increasing and estrogen has decreased. Heavyiron commented that less is aromatizing.

    I would think that reducing your estrogen would be beneficial to recovery, because, as you point out, it is this level of estrogen that tells the body how much test to produce. Low estrogen means more testosterone is produced. Wouldn't lowering it quicker and to a lower level get the body producing testosterone much more quickly, or is there something I am missing in thinking this through?

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    Nevermind, I just re-read that thread, and his estrogen was below the normal reference range . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    Ok, I realize Dr. Scally recommends Nolva, but I am thinking that your assumption that there is no estrogen is wrong. There is a guy posting here in this forum right now about his recovery, and he has high estrogen with low testosterone. His second test, just posted recently, shows that his testosterone is increasing and estrogen has decreased. Heavyiron commented that less is aromatizing.

    I would think that reducing your estrogen would be beneficial to recovery, because, as you point out, it is this level of estrogen that tells the body how much test to produce. Low estrogen means more testosterone is produced. Wouldn't lowering it quicker and to a lower level get the body producing testosterone much more quickly, or is there something I am missing in thinking this through?
    there will be virtually no e when pct starts - the body is already signaled to start. then serms selectively block the e receptor and trick the body to continue to produce test even when e becomes present. You need estrogen - you dont want to crush it. You hear all this lethargy etc during pct....low e many times. many times they are running an ai in pct.e helps lipid profile , sex drive etc. Lowering it when its already low is not prudent nor is there any benefit while you are running serms. I put my stock in Dr Scally ...not people on a forum. The man treats this condition and is the foremst specialist in the world. I think he has the optimal protocol down.
    Either way this is a great topic for discussion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyinkedup View Post
    3 days after last injection.
    I dont like an ai in pct.

    When do I bottom out? I am now 11 days into PCT, and everything is good, libido is good, is the crash coming later?

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    An Aromatase Inhibitor, in theory, is worthless with PCT. An AI does NOTHING for estro already present. It does inhihibit test conversion to estro. During PCT your test should be bottomed out so there's really nothing for the AI to do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    When do I bottom out? I am now 11 days into PCT, and everything is good, libido is good, is the crash coming later?
    12 days in and all is well. I hope this means that recovery will be very quick and effortless.

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    Ok, at almost two weeks into PCT, no libido problems or anything. How much longer is it going to be?

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    Now more than two weeks in, and libido is normal (not on cycle normal).

    I am beginning to hope no major crash is coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    Now more than two weeks in, and libido is normal (not on cycle normal).

    I am beginning to hope no major crash is coming.
    Dont always believe what you read , everyone is different and recovers different. Not all "crash". Hopefully you are correct. Nice to follow your updates..not many "log" their pct ..I think its great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyinkedup View Post
    Dont always believe what you read , everyone is different and recovers different. Not all "crash". Hopefully you are correct. Nice to follow your updates..not many "log" their pct ..I think its great.
    Well, last time around was a terrible recovery - libido issues for months. It was after a cycle that included Deca, though. My joints felt great! No more Deca. I will maybe try NPP in the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    Well, last time around was a terrible recovery - libido issues for months. It was after a cycle that included Deca, though. My joints felt great! No more Deca. I will maybe try NPP in the future.
    Deca is rough. I would always extend my pct to 6 weeks when i run deca.

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    Time from last inject to PCT, tren, prop, mast, anavar

    I never really do crash from cycles, even when my test levels are below 400. I actually feel fine w low t except for low libido.


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    Quote Originally Posted by exphys88 View Post
    even when my test levels are below 400
    I was at 117 last time around!

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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    Well, last time around was a terrible recovery - libido issues for months. It was after a cycle that included Deca, though. My joints felt great! No more Deca. I will maybe try NPP in the future.
    did you run caber with your cycle? And did you keep estrogen low? Keeping estrogen low during cycle is key for recovery. Estrogen is 200x more supressive than Testosterone. Many ppl let their estrogen get sky high during cycle which is not a good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by moodyman1 View Post
    An Aromatase Inhibitor, in theory, is worthless with PCT. An AI does NOTHING for estro already present. It does inhihibit test conversion to estro. During PCT your test should be bottomed out so there's really nothing for the AI to do.

    The reason why some ppl use AI during PCT Is estrogen rebound. It can happen with Armidex. That is why you see some people use Aromasin during pCT because it is a suicide AI meaning their is no estrogen rebound.

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    20 days and no crash . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyinkedup View Post
    Run ai up to pct ....there wil be no estrogen..there is no test o aromatize. It relies on negative feedback to force the body to produce test. A condition already present since there is no estrogen present. Plus with serms blocking e recptoer forcing production of GnRH which forces production of LH /FSH ..then test.he ai is totally unnecessary. Dr Scally - the foremost specialist on treating steroid induced andro pause (shutdown) has peer reviewed published studies and hundreds of case studies. He recommend clomid and novladex to be most effective. No ai
    Jimmyinkedup, I ran the aromasin for the first two weeks and then dropped it, mainly based on your input to this thread. I am coming up on the end of week 4 of PCT, and I feel great. I have tapered down the amounts shown above in the fourth week to:
    Clomid 50
    Nolva 20
    and things are going so well I am considering stopping at the end of week 4.

    I had originally planned 6 weeks because I had so much trouble recovering from my last cycle (inc. Deca), and people posted on here that tren is suppressive like Deca and makes recovery difficult. I was afraid, and the extended PCT was an overreaction. I am also older than most people here, so I thought the issues last time might have been due to age and likely to repeat.

    This cycle was prop, tren a, mast, and anavar. I also continued the test out almost three weeks after stopping the tren, and almost two weeks after stopping the mast. Anavar up to the last day. A part of me believes that the easy recovery had to do with continuing the test, and I tapered it off during the last week. Oh, and HCG!!!

    Anyway, thoughts on stopping my PCT at the end of week 4, based on the above comments?
    Last edited by malfeasance; 10-03-2012 at 08:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmyinkedup View Post
    Nice to follow your updates..not many "log" their pct ..I think its great.
    Ok, in the absence of any advice from others, I am going to stop PCT now (4 weeks in). I think things will go well, but we'll see in a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    Ok, in the absence of any advice from others, I am going to stop PCT now (4 weeks in). I think things will go well, but we'll see in a while.
    Your the best judge on your body and feeling brother. Sounds great, do you plan to get blood work in 5-6 wks to see how you've recovered?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dath View Post
    Your the best judge on your body and feeling brother. Sounds great, do you plan to get blood work in 5-6 wks to see how you've recovered?
    I was thinking more like 8 weeks, but yes.

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    Just as an update, bodyweight has stabilized in spite of the cardio, and libido is good following PCT . . .

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