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    State report: Medical marijuana a $10 million boost for budget






    NO, DON'T LEGALIZE MJ YOU STUPID FUCK FEDS!


    Growing like a weed: Michigan businesses sprout, flourish to supply marijuana users
    By Matthew Gryczan

    State report: Medical marijuana a $10 million boost for budget

    Medical marijuana is turning out to be a windfall for Michigan state government.

    A report issued last week by the Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs said nearly $10 million in revenue was collected from applicants ? more than double the cost of running the medical marijuana program.

    The report covers the state's most recent budget year, which ended Sept. 30.

    A medical marijuana application costs $100. Caregivers who grow marijuana for people also pay a fee.

    The report shows the number of registered marijuana users was up 44 percent in Muskegon County last fall compared with the previous 12-month period. Kent and Ottawa counties' numbers were up at least 20 percent.

    In Michigan's southwestern corner, the number of registered marijuana users was up 56 percent in Cass County and 37 percent in Berrien County.

    Voters in 2008 approved marijuana for treatment of some health problems.

    ? Associated Press

    Call it "cannabiz" ? a budding new industry for Michigan in the production and distribution of marijuana for medicinal and recreational use.

    Both aboveboard and underground, a well-established business model exists for marijuana, complete with a means of production, channels of distribution and a marketplace that reacts quickly to business conditions.

    So far, legal wrangling has kept a lid on the pent-up demand from an estimated 1 million users in the state. Legal hurdles appear to be more delays of the inevitable rather than showstoppers. But rulings such as the one passed down Friday by the Michigan Supreme Court, effectively outlawing dispensaries of medical marijuana, continue to styme the industry.

    Public sentiment appears to favor more relaxed laws. In November, five metropolitan areas representing about 1.1 million people passed laws that in one form or another loosened the reins of marijuana use. More than 124,000 people in Michigan already carry cards for the medicinal use of cannabis, which Michigan voters approved by a significant majority in 2008.

    MediSwipe Inc. ? a small, publicly traded company (OTCQB: MWIP) that provides digital identification cards for medical marijuana patients and ATM-like kiosks to handle cashless transactions at marijuana dispensaries ? relocated its headquarters from South Florida to Birmingham "based on recent and favorable state legislation regarding medical marijuana and dispensary laws" (Crain's, Feb. 4).

    It remains to be seen how Friday's court decision will affect MediSwipe's business plans. Lawyers who specialize in medical marijuana laws say it probably will be up to the Legislature to define the limits of business transactions under the state's laws.

    Local companies that make supplies for hydroponic growing and retail "hydro shops" report strong sales, especially in the wake of the elections in Grand Rapids, Detroit, Flint, Ypsilanti and Kalamazoo. Physician groups that specialize in certifying that patients have ailments qualifying for the Michigan Medical Marihuana Program registry cards are doing good business, usually charging about $150 per consultation.

    Private equity and venture capital funds want in on the action, but it's risky even by their standards.
    T.J. HAMILTON
    Todd Herrick (right), creator of Potter?s Gold potting soil, unloads a shipment with help from Anthony Cardosa, owner of two AAA Hydroponics ?hydro shops? in the Grand Rapids area. Herrick sells an average of more than 600 bags a month to shops that help customers set up marijuana growing operations.

    West Michigan financiers "want to be on the bleeding edge of where this is going," said Joseph Voss, an attorney in the corporate practice of group/debt and equity financing in the Grand Rapids office of Clark Hill PLC.

    "But we have to say to the nonaggressive money ? which is most of the money ? that it is really difficult to do this without the threat of seizure of all the assets for businesses that lean to the distribution side. It's 'Take stuff first and figure out the case later' in drug enforcement circles.

    "The specter of a federal prosecution hangs over everybody, even those who are complying with the letter of the law in Michigan."

    That hasn't stopped people from asking. Voss said he has fielded about 10 inquiries from private equity funds since November, double such inquiries from the entire year prior.

    Having a green thumb

    With a master's degree in soil science from the University of Vermont and a bachelor's in ornamental horticulture from the University of Wisconsin, Todd Herrick knows what pot plants need to grow.

    He has put years of training and horticulture experience to use developing Potter's Gold, a premium, custom-blended soil well-suited for customers who visit West Michigan hydro shops to set up marijuana growing operations. After launching the product in March, Herrick sells an average of more than 600 bags a month to about 16 shops throughout the area. He hopes to boost sales by reaching stores on the eastern side of Michigan.

    "Grow stores are popping up all over the place, and there's opportunity for people like myself who have more of a specialized product to offer to the market segment," said Herrick, a Grand Haven native whose primary job is consulting on soil science through his firm, Hort Services LLC.

    "I decided to launch this knowing full well that there was a great deal of uncertainty in this green industry sector. There aren't any leaves or buds on the bag ? I wanted to make sure that I could cross over to their traditional garden center market if I needed to."

    But rising sales and feedback from growers of medical marijuana confirmed Herrick's belief that the market was ready for a locally produced, high-quality soil.

    Herrick sources and checks the ingredients, blends the soil and packages the product in Hudsonville in bags holding 1.5 cubic feet. "The business has gotten so large, I can't do it by myself anymore, so my wife and my son help when it comes to bagging the product," he said.

    Herrick does much of his own distribution of the soil, which can cost $15 to $20 per bag ? more expensive than ordinary potting soil sold in home improvement centers but midpriced for specialty soils.
    T.J. HAMILTON
    After AAA Hydroponics in Grand Rapids opened a second store in October, pot-growing products flew off the shelves to the degree that the store supplanted its November sales target. By mid-December, November?s sales had been exceeded.

    Potter's Gold is far from the only Michigan-made product that pot growers buy, said Anthony Cardosa, owner of AAA Hydroponics, which recently opened a second location to go along with the first one in Grand Rapids.

    "The market has exponentially grown just in the last two years," said Cardosa, a Grand Rapids native who opened his first grow shop in 2010. "But this is something that's been going on inside of Michigan for years. It's no news that a lot of genetics (seeds and plant cuttings) come from Michigan. We know how to grow things here."

    AAA Hydroponics does not sell genetics but does supply Michigan-made products including Potter's Gold; hormones that promote asexual propagation or "cloning" of plants, made by Hydrodynamics International Inc. in Lansing; natural fertilizers; and pesticides.

    Certainly, business has been good for Cardosa, who said he took courses in hydroponics and gardening right after Michigan passed the medical marijuana law in 2008. He opened his second store in suburban Grand Rapids in October with the hopes of hitting a sales target, only to double it by November. By mid-December, he already had surpassed November's sales.

    About three-fourths of his customers are interested in growing marijuana. It costs less than $2,500 to get a basic outfit of lights, air-moving equipment and supplies to grow 12 plants at one time indoors ? the maximum allowed by law for a patient certified to use medical marijuana. Michigan permits a person certified to be a caregiver to grow 72 plants at one time ? 12 plants for the caregiver as a patient and five other patients who may not want to grow their own.

    A popular website, growstore finder.com, lists more than 225 hydro shops throughout the state, from Mr. Grow-It-All in Holland to Hydro Giant in Detroit.

    One needn't look farther than the Maximum Yield Indoor Gardening Expo, held in June at the Suburban Collection Showplace in Novi, to get a sense of the scope of the industry.

    "Michigan Jim," writing for BigBuds ? billed as the "World's #1 Medical Marijuana Website" ? estimated that hundreds of visitors attended the show, where dozens of vendors displayed the latest in hydroponic gardening, with an emphasis on pot growing.

    What's in your wallet?

    Along with selling hydroponic supplies, another relatively safe haven for profit is certification of medical marijuana patients so they can receive registry cards.

    "Those are the places that I see where you can currently ? safely ? make money without the uncertainty of which way the legislation is going to be interpreted," said Clark Hill's Voss. "The physician (service) is probably the safest way to make money right now in medical marijuana. There's no question under the legislative framework of the patient-doctor relationship."

    Websites in Michigan advertise a number of physicians' offices that specialize in assessing patients for medical marijuana cards. Some offer a money-back guarantee for patients who aren't accepted for the Michigan medical marijuana card registry.

    Michigan Cannabis Physicians Group ? with locations in Detroit, Sterling Heights, Flint, Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor and East Lansing ? states on its website that patients fill out forms, provide valid identification, have their blood pressure taken, then have a 10-minute interview with a physician.

    "After the interview is completed, you will be given your recommendation and the packet to mail off to the state to get your official medical marijuana card," the site says. "That's all there is to it!"

    The center generally charges a $150 fee, while the state generally charges $100 to file an application.

    To be eligible for a card, patients "must suffer from a debilitating medical condition," such as severe and chronic pain, severe nausea, severe or persistent muscle spasms, seizures or Crohn's disease, according to the Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs.

    Robert "Dr. Bob" Townsend has logged nearly 5,000 miles on his GMC Yukon since January, crisscrossing the state in visits to 24 offices to certify patients seeking medical marijuana cards, management of chronic pain or suboxone therapy for narcotics addiction. Last year he put nearly 50,000 miles on his vehicle traveling to 17 storefront locations in Upper Peninsula communities and cities served by Denali Healthcare in Portage, which has offices in Sturgis, Cutlerville, Coldwater, Kentwood, Albion, Holland, Grandville and Jenison.
    Townsend

    "I discovered the medical benefits of marijuana in 2007 when I was doing suboxone therapy for narcotics addiction," said Townsend, who holds a bachelor's degree in biological sciences from Michigan State University and a medical degree from the Southeastern College of Osteopathic Medicine in North Miami Beach, Fla.

    "I began to notice that as I was weaning people off of narcotic pain medications, those that were using marijuana illegally, and then with medical marijuana cards after 2008, weaned very, very well."

    After seeing thousands of patients over the past five years, Townsend has concluded that marijuana has a deserved place in a doctor's black bag.

    "I discovered that people were coming off using handfuls of Vicodin a month ? high doses of Vicodin every day ? strictly through the use of medical marijuana," said Townsend, who termed himself one of the biggest advocates for it in the state ? but never has used it.

    "It's very good for the treatment of Crohn's disease, excellent for nausea, very useful for treatment of glaucoma and Parkinson's disease," he said. "I've seen it stop a seizure in front of me."

    Of the approximately 30,000 active doctors in Michigan, only about 1,900 have written a single medical marijuana certification, Townsend said. When analyzed further a year ago, 55 doctors in Michigan wrote 70 percent of the certifications, with Townsend being in that group.

    The Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs reported on its website about 124,000 active registered, qualified patients and about 26,000 active registered primary caregivers as of November. Of the 344,000 original and renewal applications received since April 2009, about 31,000 were denied, most because of an incomplete application or missing documentation.

    As a percentage of people who have obtained medical marijuana cards to the general population, Michigan trails Colorado, Washington, Oregon and California. About 2.1 percent of Colorado's residents have medical marijuana cards, compared with about 1.2 percent in Michigan.

    Townsend said he rejects patients who don't have medical records from their primary physicians or who suffer from conditions that don't fall within the criteria of state law. But he favors expanding the list to include conditions such as Parkinson's disease. He testified in late January before the Michigan Medical Marihuana Review Panel to add post-traumatic stress syndrome to the state's list of debilitating medical conditions.

    While he was generally pleased with the package of bills passed last year regulating medical marijuana that take effect in April, Townsend said he was troubled by new restrictions on telemedicine regarding consultative visits for patients. Physicians have been allowed to use Internet tools such as Skype to interview patients who have been seen by their primary physicians and have medical records to determine eligibility for the MMMP program.

    "There's no real physical exam for a number of the approved conditions," Townsend said. "How can you do a physical exam for seizures? There isn't one unless a patient has a seizure right in front of you. "

    According to a study published in 2007 by the federal Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, nearly 1 million people in Michigan illegally use marijuana at least once a year, and more than half use it once a month.

    Doing business in the shadows

    Michigan's medical marijuana laws have spurred demand for other support services for marijuana growers and users, such as shops selling "consumption devices," criminal defense attorneys who specialize in drug laws, and laboratories that test for concentration levels of tetrahydrocannabinol and the presence of pesticides or fungicides. Tetrahydrocannabinol ? more commonly known as THC ? is the primary intoxicant in marijuana.

    Voss said the market may be ripe for other services that don't touch marijuana directly, such as specialists who make house calls to set up hydroponics equipment for do-it-yourself marijuana growers and community banks that finance caregiver operations for which equipment alone can exceed $20,000.

    MediSwipe entered the financing sector when bank card companies stopped servicing dispensaries.

    But any commercial operation involved with obtaining money to distribute marijuana to patients quickly gets into the dicey area, Voss said. "For a commercial lender type to do some type of financing, however, you have to show the source of repayment if you are doing any financial analysis," he said.

    That becomes difficult when state law is fuzzy about the point where accepting "reasonable compensation for services" turns into selling marijuana for a profit.

    The blurred legal questions haven't stunted the growth of dispensaries that essentially act as brokers for growers and users. One popular website, PotLocator.com, lists more than 215 medical marijuana dispensaries in Michigan.

    "Being a dispensary is a scary business," said Cardosa of AAA Hydroponics. "Your inventory is at risk all the time. If you have five patients and yourself, you are only allowed to have 15 ounces at any time in your possession. But a dispensary obviously carries more than 15 ounces. Quite literally, they (law enforcement agencies) can walk inside and take everything."

    The city of Ann Arbor has had dispensaries for medical marijuana for years, and voters in Kalamazoo passed a charter amendment in November that tried to regulate dispensaries for medical marijuana.

    Some experts think that murky legal question of whether dispensaries are legal was lifted Friday when the Supreme Court affirmed an appeals court finding that Michigan's 2008 medical marijuana law does not allow people to sell pot to each other, even if they're among the tens of thousands who have state-issued marijuana cards, according to an Associated Press report.

    Although it has been a risky endeavor, entrepreneurs have pushed the envelope of commerce in an area where public sentiment has changed markedly over the past decade. Delivery services such as Michigan A-Grade have sprouted up all over the state, and it's clear that distribution will continue either aboveboard or underground.

    According to the website THCfinder.com, Michigan A-Grade bills itself as "the only marketplace that combines West Michigan's finest farmers, local caregivers and patients, eliminating the need for dispensaries."

    A group, West Michigan Medical Marijuana Caregivers, functions as "a network and delivery service for qualifying patients," serving Kent, Kalamazoo, Montcalm, Muskegon, Mecosta and Newaygo counties. Minimum donations are required and mileage charges may apply.

    In the future, the group plans on "making healthy clones and seedlings available to members, holding grow-your-own classes, personal grow coaching, discounts on grow room equipment/nutes (nutrients) and an Internet forum for members."

    Said Clark Hill's Voss: "I get the sense there's a lot going on that most of us have no idea what's happening. It is kind of like the Wild West out there."

    Early adopters and bleeding-edge entrepreneurs may gain proprietary knowledge, market share and early branding. But they also risk sudden changes in the business landscape because of court rulings, law enforcement directives ? even Internal Revenue Service rules.

    "The federal side of this makes me think this is a conversation that's going to take place over several years ? not election cycles," Voss said. For instance, entrepreneurs likely can't take write-offs on their costs for tax purposes for starting a larger-scale growing operation.

    "The law is pretty clear that there's no legalization of a commercial transaction ? cash for weed," Voss said. "And if that's happening, we need to tell you straight away that every penny that happens as a drug dealer needs to be declared as miscellaneous income on a tax return, with a large degree of certainty guaranteeing an audit, which then requires audit representation."

    Regardless of the legal wrangling, it probably is as hard to pare back the pot industry in Michigan as it is to eradicate the vigorous weed itself.

    "The genie has been out of the bottle for lots and lots of years," Cardosa said. "All the way around, it is a lucrative business for Michigan ? and it is already here."





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    just can't see this MJ thing going very far unfortunately. the entire US for profit-prison system is built around the fake "war on drugs".

    fucking greedy douche-bags....
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Michigan has a few things going for it and pot is one of them.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    just can't see this MJ thing going very far unfortunately. the entire US for profit-prison system is built around the fake "war on drugs".

    fucking greedy douche-bags....

    .......that's the scary thing......they already make so much money warehousing so-called 'druggies'.....I don't think I'll live to see true legalization .....

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    let's see, how many people die from alcohol, tobacco, Rx drugs, OTC drugs, etc. - 100,000s of thousands each year!

    how many people die from weed, ZERO!

    oh, I know it's a so called "gateway drug", interesting and fucking stupid logic, I know numerous people, myself included, that smoke MJ regularly and do not touch any other drugs and don't ever plan to.

    and see my avatar, I just took that a few days ago, I smoke weed every night!





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    All those people that commited mass murders with their semi or fully automatic weapons were on some kind of RX meds.

    If they just would've smoked a joint instead, all that hate would've passed !



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    Quote Originally Posted by IronAddict View Post
    All those people that commited mass murders with their semi or fully automatic weapons were on some kind of RX meds.

    If they just would've smoked a joint instead, all that hate would've passed !
    yup, just imagine if we took most Rx drugs and alcohol away how much less crime there would be. lol
    I don't think I have EVER heard of someone being violent when they are high, for me it's pretty much impossible.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince View Post
    yup, just imagine if we took most Rx drugs and alcohol away how much less crime there would be. lol
    I don't think I have EVER heard of someone being violent when they are high, for me it's pretty much impossible.
    Me too. After all these years I still get put into a good mood, no matter what kind of shitty day I had.

    And In 2013 I still can't fathom alc. being sold in drive thru dairies ?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince View Post
    oh, I know it's a so called "gateway drug", interesting and fucking stupid logic, I know numerous people, myself included, that smoke MJ regularly and do not touch any other drugs and don't ever plan to.
    Which is bullshit...even if it is true. I'm willing to bet serious money that alcohol is 1000X more a gateway to hard drugs than pot is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Prince View Post
    and see my avatar, I just took that a few days ago, I smoke weed every night!
    Arnie did pot, too. It's a shame that it ruined his life...


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    Quote Originally Posted by DOMS View Post
    Which is bullshit...even if it is true. I'm willing to bet serious money that alcohol is 1000X more a gateway to hard drugs than pot is.
    not to mention how many lives alcohol ruins, it's not a victimless drug, I know first hand from going thru it with Gena.

    last time I checked there is no such thing as MJ Anonymous.





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    oh one more thing....MJ has several proven, legit medicinal uses hence the reason big pharma is trying to make it in a pill, alcohol has ZERO.





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    and MJ is easier for teens to get in high school than alcohol is, FACT!





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    the majority of violent convicts in US prisons are there because they were drunk or drinking at the time of their offense. good luck finding a bunch of convicts that were under the influence of MJ alone and committed a crime. not the standard MO of a stoner.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    the majority of violent convicts in US prisons are there because they were drunk or drinking at the time of their offense. good luck finding a bunch of convicts that were under the influence of MJ alone and committed a crime. not the standard MO of a stoner.
    agreed, it seems that only the people that smoke it understand and realize how harmless MJ really is.





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    The profits brought in by making MJ legal would be of great help to the states.

    The profits brought to a few greedy individuals would be even greater if MJ were to remain illegal.



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    Quote Originally Posted by IronAddict View Post
    The profits brought in by making MJ legal would be of great help to the states.

    The profits brought to a few greedy individuals would be even greater if MJ were to remain illegal.
    for some reason our government does not understand that banning anything just creates a huge underground black market, the war on drugs as been a colossal failure and costs millions of dollars each year, the only thing that happens is we put more people in prison for using drugs, wouldn't it make more sense to pay to put them thru a rehab program?





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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince View Post
    for some reason our government does not understand that banning anything just creates a huge underground black market, the war on drugs as been a colossal failure and costs millions of dollars each year, the only thing that happens is we put more people in prison for using drugs, wouldn't it make more sense to pay to put them thru a rehab program?
    Makes perfect sense to me, but then they'd be cured and not part of the revolving door scheme. These guys have it all rigged well, phuquin crooks!



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    you know how we can get some?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince View Post
    oh, I know it's a so called "gateway drug", interesting and fucking stupid logic, I know numerous people, myself included, that smoke MJ regularly and do not touch any other drugs and don't ever plan to.

    and see my avatar, I just took that a few days ago, I smoke weed every night!
    It's funny, I always thought potheads were losers in high school and college. I "tried" ecstacy and coke off and on for a year when I was 27 and didn't like either. I tried weed when I was 28 and loved it from the first time on. It relaxes and actually motivates me in some ways, and definitely expands the mind. I actually like it more than alcohol because of the lack of a hangover, the next morning it's gone. I don't really do it that often anymore but did it several times a week for a while.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    It's funny, I always thought potheads were losers in high school and college. I "tried" ecstacy and coke off and on for a year when I was 27 and didn't like either. I tried weed when I was 28 and loved it from the first time on. It relaxes and actually motivates me in some ways, and definitely expands the mind. I actually like it more than alcohol because of the lack of a hangover, the next morning it's gone. I don't really do it that often anymore but did it several times a week for a while.
    yup, I was the exact same way, we (jocks) looked down upon the "stoner crowd", I agree I like the feeling I get from weed, the fact that it does not harm my body and no hangover, can't beat that!





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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince View Post
    yup, I was the exact same way, we (jocks) looked down upon the "stoner crowd", I agree I like the feeling I get from weed, the fact that it does not harm my body and no hangover, can't beat that!
    Plus, given that the average person is on 1 pharmaceutical for every decade old they are and I don't see how weed is a significant problem. I have friends who are on like 3 or 4 pharmaceuticals and know people who aren't even 20 yet who are on multiple meds for BP, ADD, etc. A little pot would probably even them out and they wouldn't need to fuck themselves up with the pharm drugs. I have no problem with pharmaceutical drugs for people who need them. I don't consider people who take BP medication because they eat chicken fingers and fries every night as "needing" them.

    PS, Prince, when did you start up? I can't tell you how many people I didn't know that toked up actually do. Most of them started in their 30s, but they are the same jock crowd who thought they were for losers in HS.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    PS, Prince, when did you start up?
    about 4 years ago.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    Plus, given that the average person is on 1 pharmaceutical for every decade old they are and I don't see how weed is a significant problem. I have friends who are on like 3 or 4 pharmaceuticals and know people who aren't even 20 yet who are on multiple meds for BP, ADD, etc. A little pot would probably even them out and they wouldn't need to fuck themselves up with the pharm drugs. I have no problem with pharmaceutical drugs for people who need them. I don't consider people who take BP medication because they eat chicken fingers and fries every night as "needing" them.

    PS, Prince, when did you start up? I can't tell you how many people I didn't know that toked up actually do. Most of them started in their 30s, but they are the same jock crowd who thought they were for losers in HS.
    I know you didn't ask me, but I'd like to give my answer here. I started in HS, was a jock, but liked to party, too. I disliked those guys that looked down on others, always seen them as hypocrites and followers. Still do.

    Guit while in the service, now I toke whenever I can, which is very often. I hate to be redundant but my ptsd and it's causing me not to sleep is nullified with the use of MJ. Zoloft works too, but I'd rather imbibe the good herb.

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    I have my own "start up story."

    When I was a teen in High school, I tried Marijuana and it wasn't for me. In the Pacific Northwest it was (is still?) hydrponic strong stuff that was too strong for me. I didn't like pot. I preferred beer.

    I had not smoked MJ for 20 years or more until last year.

    A lot of people in Vietnam smoke weed. People pass joints around in some bars and cafes freely. I decided to take a puff or two. People also gave me pieces of MJ and I would put it in an old vitamin bottle in my fridge. I let the pot keep piling up, but for months I never smoked it (because weed was not my drug of choice).

    After a few months I decided to smoke it after 20 years or more.

    First.....I had to (duh) buy a lighter. Then, papers, and I tried to roll joints (which I suck out). Then I went to the smoke through a can route (don't know where to get a pipe here). People use doobies.

    The weed here in VN is mostly natural stuff. Meaning, it's not hydroponic, and "weak." It gives me energy and I can now read lengthy article on the computer and keep my concentration, whereas I cannot when I am not smoking. The weed in VN gives a light buzz and it does not last very long.

    So far, it's been great.
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronAddict View Post
    I know you didn't ask me, but I'd like to give my answer here. I started in HS, was a jock, but liked to party, too. I disliked those guys that looked down on others, always seen them as hypocrites and followers. Still do.

    Guit while in the service, now I toke whenever I can, which is very often. I hate to be redundant but my ptsd and it's causing me not to sleep is nullified with the use of MJ. Zoloft works too, but I'd rather imbibe the good herb.

    By the sounds of things, I'm not alone! to you guys
    Nice, we should start a tokers thread.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    just can't see this MJ thing going very far unfortunately. the entire US for profit-prison system is built around the fake "war on drugs".

    fucking greedy douche-bags....
    yes but the masses are catchign on a bit quicker now. if not to that atleast to the fact most want MJ legal and it as soon as it hurts political seats i assure you all a sudden it will change, already seems to be.

    not likr the 1960's where BS could be pumpped out by gov and us not know any better.

    what happens when there is more stats having it legal then not?
    i see it being legalized soon and the (cash train) will slow down to the DEA and prisons.. if it didnt it would blow up and cost jobs from the highrankers. just my op anyway
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    Decent article noting that 'correlation' is not 'cause'

    Marijuana as a Gateway Drug: The Myth That Will Not Die

    Read more: Marijuana as a Gateway Drug: The Myth That Will Not Die | TIME.com
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prince View Post
    for some reason our government does not understand that banning anything just creates a huge underground black market, the war on drugs as been a colossal failure and costs millions of dollars each year, the only thing that happens is we put more people in prison for using drugs, wouldn't it make more sense to pay to put them thru a rehab program?
    NOT if you want a reason to take tax dollars.... DEA should have NO say in laws at ALL, only enforcing them.
    science should make up the drug laws. meth = bad MJ= good mushrooms = middle ground or what ever. anyway I think the GOV knows its nto working but taking tax dollars you need a reason right>?
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    Quote Originally Posted by prince View Post
    yup, i was the exact same way, we (jocks) looked down upon the "stoner crowd", i agree i like the feeling i get from weed, the fact that it does not harm my body and no hangover, can't beat that!
    well put! :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Smoothy View Post
    Decent article noting that 'correlation' is not 'cause'

    Marijuana as a Gateway Drug: The Myth That Will Not Die

    Read more: Marijuana as a Gateway Drug: The Myth That Will Not Die | TIME.com
    umm of COURSE its a gate way drug..... but thats due TO THE DRUG LAWS!!

    want any e or coke? curious? who do i ask? ohh the weed guy, and chances are out of 5 one of them sells more then just weed.
    atleast thats how i tried other stuff.
    if it was legal there would be less drug use in my op.

    nvm the dealers that DO push the other drugs "hey man want one of these E's? let me know if you like it..... you dont get that kind of person at the beer store...

    Im up for legalizing all drugs really with the exception of a few and even then delt with differently then how drug charges are now.
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