Gun logic?

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  1. #1
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    Gun logic?






    The debate always seems to go the same direction: The anti-gunner demands that we give up our rights and it will be worth it if we ?save one life.? At that point I always ask, ?So, what is important is saving lives??I wait for the response. The anti-gunner always says, ?Yes! We need to do everything we can to save lives.?
    It is almost unfair when I counter with, ?So we should restrict those items used to kill people. Regardless of the person?s right to legally use those items??
    As if on cue, the anti-gunner says something about people not having a ?need? to buy an ?assault weapon? or a magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds, or 6,000 rounds of ammunition over the Internet.
    In this particular case, an email exchange, I asked the gun control advocate, ?Have you ever bought more beer or wine than you could drink at one meal? Why are you stockpiling. Just go buy it when you need it? But? Oh My God? you are driving a car to a liquor store! The combination of cars and alcohol is too volatile. We need to do something about that. Let?s ban one or both. If we can save one life it is worth impacting the rights of EVERYONE! Can you imagine if you had to fill out a form and submit to a background check (or better yet breath-alyzer test) every time you wanted to buy booze? Hey, why not? Booze kills more people than guns. It is not the idiot who chooses to drive drunk. IT IS THE BOOZE!?
    He replied with the typical anti-gun response: I can?t stand on the stage of a crowded movie theater or roam through the halls of an elementary school and blast away with bottles of booze (or spit it out multiple rounds, or whatever image is weirdly comparable, if any) and take out multiple victims in a very small amount of time. Or can I?
    I?d had enough and I just sort of went off. It was a stream of consciousness, that upon later review, I decided must be shared. Here is my response to the man who said liquor and cars are less dangerous than guns:
    You could, if YOU CHOOSE, drink a bunch of liquor and drive right through a group of (insert your favorite group to elicit an emotional response? nuns, kids, teachers protesting at the capital, Occupy protestors, you name it) and kill dozens. We have had mass killings with vehicles where people have died by the busload! They included a van full of teenagers selling subscriptions, an anti-Semite driving through the schoolyard of Jewish daycare center, a drunken bus driver hitting a bridge, etc. It happens. So, because some scumbag CAN walk into a school and shoot, you say we MUST restrict the rights of all. Right now any scumbag CAN drink a 30-pack and drive into a school bus, but Lefties don?t want to make it more difficult for him to do that because it will keep them from their Microbrew! And their right to drink is apparently much more important than my right to be able to defend myself.
    Because 20 kids died in Connecticut, THAT ALONE makes it time to ?do something?? That number of people dies every two months in Chicago, but until it was little white kids in suburban Connecticut, the media and you and all your friends didn?t say a word! The 20 deaths is a tragedy that could have been prevented. Had that brave, educated and responsible administrator been trained and armed when she ran into that hallway there is a better than 50/50 chance every single kid would be alive. There was a 100-percent chance they would die at Adam Lanza?s hand without protection. But you will not ever agree to that because you are afraid of guns. You will never agree to that because you will not admit that evil exists and YOU must be the one to stop it. You have abandoned your responsibility. You say, ?Some one else should protect me.? You have abandoned your individual responsibility to care for yourself.
    Tell me what would you do if a man came to rape your daughter! You would call 9-1-1 and hope someone with a gun got there in time. Then you would try to do whatever you could to protect her. But the man you would be fighting was beaten and abused by his step-father, he was jumped into a gang at age 13, he was dealing drugs by 15 and later spent five years at Felony Finishing School (state prison) where he learned that violence and intimidation will get him what he wants. Not only did he learn that, but he also had every waking moment to build his strength, to learn from watching and participating in the brutalization of others. He is a man who does not know the meaning of mercy and would not offer it to you, even if he did. I have seen these men. They are in towns smaller than yours. They are looking for their next victim. And if he hits you just once, you will sit on the floor dazed and bleeding while he does whatever he wants to your daughter. Maybe he will take her and leave before the police get there. Maybe he will just rape her and kill her. And for the rest of your life, you will think, ?I wish could have done something.?
    Well you can do something. But you won?t. All you will do is say, ?It won?t happen to me.? But as long as criminals have cars, every neighborhood is a bad neighborhood. So, you can bet on the odds that crime is rare and hope it will never happen to you, but what you can?t do is work to take away from me the only thing that will even those odds. You say I am paranoid and living in fear. I say I am like a Boy Scout, prepared. And you are living in denial. You deny that anything bad will ever happen. Then when it does happen, you say someone should have done something. That someone is the person closest to the incident. We have created a nation of cowards who refuse to get involved; who think it is too difficult, too expensive and too time-consuming to be willing and ABLE to stand-up for ones self. Instead you tell others to care for you. You tell others to protect you. I will not join the fraternity of cowards. I will train, I will learn and I will pray I never have to put that training to use. And I will fight against anyone who tries to take that right away from me.
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    There are a lot of things that influence the debate we typically see. Most people lack critical thinking skills, the tools to comprehend and analyze an argument. Many people don't know the difference between mean and median, and are much less able to understand a comprehensive statistical analysis; in other words, they have no idea if a certain data set is meaningful. Another factor is emotion and general bias. Even worse is that the media has to pander to the lowest common denominator. So the segments you see on TV are vapid exchanges. I don't know if that is the cause but I've noticed people in everyday life tend to mimic this TV show style argument. This style consist of each side barraging each other with stats and anecdotes that aren't statistically meaningful.

    As someone with a STEM background and a gun proponent, the most difficult things to overcome in the debate are most opponents are 1) ignorant of firearms in general and 2) lack the education to form a substantive argument. It's like arguing about platinum catalyst layers in a fuel cell with someone who think batteries are witchcraft. You cannot win an argument with someone unable to comprehend it. Some anti gunners are intelligent but I've yet to see an argument worth much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by troubador View Post
    1) ignorant of firearms in general and 2) lack the education to form a substantive argument. It's like arguing about platinum catalyst layers in a fuel cell with someone who think batteries are witchcraft. You cannot win an argument with someone unable to comprehend it. Some anti gunners are intelligent but I've yet to see an argument worth much.
    Truth!
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    it looks like your post was a stream of conciseness. I agree with you. Those looking to ban any type of gun will always use an emotional rather than a logical argument. There simply is no logical argument to be made against us owning firearms. including the big bad AR style rifle. The only thing we can really do is sit down and calmly educate those who are in the middle to our side. Leave the wacko nut job Senator Feinsteins to themselves. They are without hope in this. Focus on winning the middle through proper education and reason, and then let the far left suck it. The far left is counting on the middle sitting back on this issue. if the middle doesn't get vocal they have a chance of winning. I intend on making that very difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    Sheep get their news from the media, I get my news from Facebook. That's where the real unbiased news is found. any everyone from IM that is friends with me on FB knows this.

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    I did have chance to talk to a police officer Sunday on a casual basis. He lives in the same condo as my Girlfriend.

    I was very happy to hear that most Police are very against this gun control BS. They know that the gun grabbers are grasping at straws so to speak.

    just glad to hear it from the men in blue! Law abiding citizens have the right to keep and bear arm. The police want more control with the criminals!
    Jagbender's battle of the bulge
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    Offer to beat the fuck out of him with a pipe. And when he's on the verge of death ask him how he intends to stop you and wouldn't a gun be nice to have right now.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    Offer to beat the fuck out of him with a pipe. And when he's on the verge of death ask him how he intends to stop you and wouldn't a gun be nice to have right now.
    This is also how you win an argument with someone who doesn't believe in objective truth.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jagbender View Post
    I did have chance to talk to a police officer Sunday on a casual basis. He lives in the same condo as my Girlfriend.

    I was very happy to hear that most Police are very against this gun control BS. They know that the gun grabbers are grasping at straws so to speak.

    just glad to hear it from the men in blue! Law abiding citizens have the right to keep and bear arm. The police want more control with the criminals!
    The police know that when the dumbshits that are trying to take guns away from citizens are finished with that task, that the police are next, and that they'll end up being a joke.



    And then killed by the still armed criminals.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DOMS View Post
    The police know that when the dumbshits that are trying to take guns away from citizens are finished with that task, that the police are next, and that they'll end up being a joke.



    And then killed by the still armed criminals.
    Look at the police in the UK. They are even out of their depth when faced with someone with a knife. They banned samurai swords. Working on banning steak knives. They have either the highest, or nearly highest, rate of violent crimes and deaths. Gun ban only made it worse.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Makes about as much sense to keep guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens as it did when I was in the Navy and our new Senior Chief took me and another Radioman off of the Vessel Board, Search and Seizure Team. His logic was that because we had Top Secret clearances and access to classified info we shouldn't be allowed to handle guns on board. In order to get a TS clearance they inspect your whole life and know that you are trust worthy, far more in depth than the average Deck Hands was screened and there were 5 of the on the VBSS team. Wouldn't you want those in charge of the most sensitive area of the ship to be armed and qualified to protect said Classified Info and Equipment? The VBSS was the most excitement I got in the Navy and when he took that away I lost all interest in continuing a career in the service.
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    but oh they have yet to be experienced and that makes aging so very worth it...ML circa2012

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