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    Sarms?






    Do they cause shutdown? At what dose and what is the purpose of using it during pct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Call of Ktulu View Post
    Do they cause shutdown? some mild shut down yes At what dose no one can tell you but higher the dose the more the shut down most likely and what is the purpose of using it during pct? NON... it should not be, SERM's should be not SARMS, if anything i rec igf1 or other peps during PCT. it could be people trying to limit muscle loss during pct, but using a SARM wont HELP pct, i would do a mild PCT after SARM use


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    this may help you too:

    SARMS Article : Uses, benefits and general compound info *A Noob Must read*
    Today I want to talk about an AMAZING type of compound that has been growing immensely in popularity and use!

    What is it?

    SARMS!!!!!!

    No not SERMS like Tamox or clomid!

    SARMS!

    *SARM's stands for---> Selective androgen receptor modulators.


    Why would I care about that?

    Well they have some of the same kind of effects as anabolic steroids and other compounds that affect the androgen receptor. SARMs are more selective in their action then most steroids on the market currently and give much less side effects that are usually seen with these steroids.
    The discovery of this new class of drugs is amazing not just to bodybuilders and power lifters, but to people in all walks of life.
    Beneficial use could be from a simple old guy (or young guy like me) on HRT or a person having bone issues or even for something very life threatening like a women fighting for her life with breast cancer!
    There are a lot of clinical applications for SARMS and possibly a lot more that we have not discovered yet.[1]

    I find this so exciting because in my opinion this is just the start in the development of SARMs.

    I guess, "Just the tip of the ice berg" you could say.

    That's not meant to sound like we don't already have great SARMs already, we do!


    We have some very amazing SARMs out right now and although none are legally on the market for general human use, if you know where to look, they do seem to be readily available now on the black market.
    It is nice to think that soon HRT might just be 1 oral SARM dose a day and for some that might mean a lot if they do not like getting a shot every 1-2 weeks or rubbing on creams daily for HRT and that's besides the side effects part of it all.

    There are the side effects of HRT that some people have issues with, for example someone with prostate issues (or even cancer) on HRT, well then the use of testosterone for HRT could be very troublesome for a person in that condition.
    With a SARM that person could possibly use the SARM for his HRT treatment while limiting the effects on the prostate and maybe even helping it. There might even be a male oral contraceptive on its way![2]


    Now I am no female, but I can only imagine the wonderful uses SARMS could have for women!

    Think about it, just about every treatment for muscle wasting and hormonal issues are treated with... well hormones!
    For a women loosing muscle mass, bone mass, has declining hormones or even less energy due to these issues could benefit greatly with SARMS and with limited side effects when compared to other hormone treatment.
    For women using hormones, side effects could be (and more times than not) much worse for them than men. Women can develop an enlarged clitoris, body/facial hair and even a deepened voice!

    For a women that could be devastating and to use hormones at an amount high enough to combat for eg. muscle wasting effectively, more times than not women seem to experience one or more of these side effects.

    Now with SARMs there is a chance at not only helping female bodybuilders gain mass with limited side effects, but also treat the very ill and needy while limiting the side effects on females.
    There can still be side effects for women, and especially at high doses of SARMS, but this would be a lot less so compared to most steroids currently available.


    OK, OK, sounds great, but how is it so orally active yet not liver toxic like just about all other oral steroids out there?

    Since SARMs are manmade and not actually a hormone they do not need to be methylated/17aa to make the hormone to be orally active, which is usually why it is liver toxic to begin with. SARM's provide the opportunity to design molecules that can be delivered orally without making them liver toxic. This is great due to the fact just about every oral hormone seems to be liver toxic due to the alterations made to the hormone making it more orally active and effective.


    To understand how a SARM works you need to have a bit of an understanding about the androgen receptor, so here is a bit of info on that:

    Androgens and Androgen receptors

    The androgen receptor plays a big role in the function of many organs in the body including sexual organs, skeletal muscle, and bone. Androgen receptors let the body to respond to androgens in the body and androgen receptors are in a lot of the body's tissues.
    When the androgen binds to the androgen receptor it regulates the activity of androgen responsive genes by turning them on or off. The androgens and their receptors help direct the development of male sexual characteristics during puberty.
    But that's not the only thing they do, androgens also have other very important functions in males and females like controlling hair growth, mood, energy, cognitive function and sex drive (amongst other things).[3]


    So a SARM is an ANDROGEN?

    NO!

    Some crazy ass scientist's figured out how to active the receptors without even using an androgen at all!
    That's the beauty of it; SARMS are on a whole new level!

    Over MANY years scientists have toyed with steroids to limit their side effects and utilize the effects they want from them.
    I mean just about all AAS are just an altered form of testosterone, DHT or prog!
    It has been many years and they still don't have a "perfect steroid"! >: - (


    Now with SARMS on the other hand, they have just started toying with them and we are already this far! If you think of it like that, I can only imagine how advanced we will be with SARM's in the coming years.
    I am very excited about this fact! That's not to say AAS is crap. I love testosterone myself and am on HRT. I love how it makes me feel and the help in recovery it gives me (on HRT or on cycle) But to be able to possibly use a SARM as full blown HRT treatment along with boosting sex drive and be a contraceptive and to be all orally taken, it is just amazing to me!

    How I see it is there may even be quite a few SARMs to pick from sometime soon for HRT treatment.

    What do I mean?

    Ok let me try to explain my theory with 3 "made up" SARM's for HRT use:

    SARM1: HRT treatment SARM with closest possible effects to testosterone, without the negative side effects.


    SARM2: HRT treatment SARM with effects like testosterone but altered to boost libido much higher and also be an oral contraceptive


    SARM3: HRT/muscle wasting SARM with effects like that of testosterone, but with a much higher anabolic activity. For use with HRT and/or muscle wasting patients.


    The above is just me explain my theory, Please don't PM me asking where to get them lol.


    What I am getting at is we may have an option for "many flavours" of SARMs depending on our personality, goals or conditions!
    I think that's FREAKING AWESOME!!!

    If you could cut down the amount of medications and treat more than one condition with just one drug that is not even liver toxic AND with less side effects is just amazing!


    So what SARM's are out there then?

    Well there is many and many still being made. I am going to talk about the 2 most popular and currently used and they are called Ostarine (or MK-2866) and Andarine (or S-4).

    These SARMs very a bit in their effects but both will get the job done for those of us that are into powerlifting or bodybuilding.


    So whats the deal of these two SARMs?


    Here is a short description on them:

    MK-2866 :
    Ostarine is a selective androgen receptor modulator developed by GTx Inc for treatment of conditions like muscle wasting and osteoporosis. Ostarine is an orally active, potent and selective agonist for androgen receptors shown in animal and human studies to have anabolic effects in both muscle and bone. It has an androgenic potency around 1/3rd of its anabolic potency. It was shown in vitro to increase the ratio of osteoblast formation from bone marrow osteoprogenitor cells, and reduced the number of new osteoclasts formed. It produced dose-dependent increases in bone mineral density and mechanical strength in vivo, as well as decreasing body fat and increasing lean body mass.[4] Human trials have shown promising efficacy and with a long half-life in humans of about 24 hours.[5] Ostarine has also gone through human trials up to Phase II with positive results.[6]
    Dosing: 10-40mg ed seems to be the norm in its black market use for muscle building effects.


    S-4 :
    Andarine is an orally active agonist for androgen receptors. In an animal model of benign prostatic hypertrophy, Andarine was shown to reduce prostate weight with similar efficacy to Finasteride, but without producing any reduction in muscle mass or anti-androgenic side effects. This suggests that it is able to block binding of dihydrotestosterone to its receptor targets in the prostate gland, but its partial agonist effects at androgen receptors prevent the side effects associated with the anti-androgenic drugs traditionally used for treatment of BPH. Studies showed that Andarine is rapidly absorbed and highly bioavailable after oral doses capable of maximal pharmacologic activity. The favorable pharmacokinetics of Andarine permits convenient low doses and show that it is a strong candidate for continued clinical development.[7] A common side effect is slightly yellow colored vision and night blindness, but these side effects diminish around 5-6 days after last dose.
    Dosing: 30-100mg ed, 1-2X a day is the norm for black market use for muscle building effects.



    Ok so now that I covered the basics on what the hell a SARM is and how they even work if they are not hormones, I will move on to how you can cycle these.

    There is A LOT of debate on what is the best way to use these compounds (I mean for the most part medical human use it limited so) but I along with many others have personal experience with these compounds. So Combined with my years of research, personal experience (and of others) I will base these cycles of what I feel is the most effective yet safe way to go about it.

    Now there is a lot of debate (more so in the past) that SARM's do not shut you down, I believe this to be untrue.
    They may be VERY VERY mild in this regard and lower doses you may not even notice shut down at all, but they can cause shut down so keep PCT in mind and/or on hand as a possibility.
    I rec a small PCT anyway if you are using them more than 4-6weeks at a time, just to be safe.


    Some may argue to limit its use to 4 weeks, while others recommend much more. I found for optimal results with no added side effects (that I noticed or from others reports) that 6-8weeks min and 8-10wks avg is a good amount of time to run these SARM's.
    I personally like 8-10wks of osta. *Also since we do not exactly have long term use record of them so it is best to be on the safer side*



    SARMS CYCLES:

    S-4 cycle:
    Wk1-6 25mg ed 2X a day = 50mg total


    Osta cycle:
    Wk1-8 25mg ed



    HA, very simple when compared to AAS cycles is it not? :-)

    If you feel like you may need a PCT then 2-3 weeks of low dosed Tamox (10mg ed) or clomid (20-30mg ed) should help.

    Most should be fine with just OTC supplemental help post cycle to aid in recovery.


    I truly hope this information help someone out that is new to SARMs and did not understand them.



    Hope you enjoyed!!!




    Take care












    References:
    1) Selective androgen receptor modulators in preclinical and clinical development. Ramesh Narayanan, Michael L. Mohler, Casey E. Bohl, Duane D. Miller, and James T. Dalton Selective androgen receptor modulators in preclinical and clinical development
    2) A SARM for Horomonal Male Contraception http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/conten...2/546.full.pdf
    3) J Endocrinol Invest. 2003;26(3 Suppl):23-8. Sexual differentiation. Sinisi AA, Pasquali D, Notaro A, Bellastella A. Sexual differentiation. [J Endocrinol Invest. 2003] - PubMed - NCBI
    4) Kearbey JD, Gao W, Narayanan R, Fisher SJ, Wu D, Miller DD, Dalton JT. Selective Androgen Receptor Modulator (SARM) treatment prevents bone loss and reduces body fat in ovariectomized rats. Pharmaceutical Research. 2007 Feb;24(2):328-35. PMID 17063395
    5) Gao W, Kim J, Dalton JT. Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of nonsteroidal androgen receptor ligands. Pharmaceutical Research. 2006 Aug;23(8):1641-58. PMID 16841196
    6) GTx Announces That Ostarine Achieved Primary Endpoint Of Lean Body Mass And A Secondary Endpoint Of Improved Functional Performance Discovery and therapeutic promise of selective androgen receptor modulators. Chen J, Kim J, Dalton JT.Source Division of Pharmaceutics,College of Pharmacy, The Ohio State University, Columbus, Ohio 43210, USA. Discovery and therapeutic promise of selective an... [Mol Interv. 2005] - PubMed - NCBI
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    Thanks that answered my question.

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