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This makes a little more sense right?

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  1. #1
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    This makes a little more sense right?

    I will be coming off a dbol only cycle 50mg in 4-5 weeks
    they say novladex is better for gyno but if I take letzorole shouldn't I be better off with clomid?
    I heard clomid puts your natural test back in order faster

  2. #2
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    Cant I just use a SERM like Clomid for gyno and PCT?

    NO! Well I mean you could, but it is not optimal and I strongly recommend against it.

    This is why:
    SERMS like Clomid, Tamox and others, only BLOCKS estrogen at some receptors like the breast glands. But it WILL NOT lower estrogen in your body!

    If you have Gyno setting in and started up Clomid or Nolva sure you would block the gyno but your estrogen levels would still be building up and in my opinion that is NOT a good thing.
    If you were not very smart, didnt think ahead and didnt have an AI on hand and only SERMs, then yes you could start a low dose while you wait for the AI to come, BUT USE THE AI for gyno control long term!
    I ALWAYS tell people to use an AI for gyno/estrogen control; its just the most effective and healthy way to go about it.
    Save the SERM for PCT use and IF NEEDED the onset of gyno while waiting for the AI to take full effect (if that ended up being the case).
    Other than that I feel a SERM should not be used for gyno control and only as part of a PCT.

    Some of the older guys may have used a SERMs for gyno control, but we know better now and its time to move with the times.

    I am going to list the most used and well known of these compounds with a small description on each, then I will move into how you may want to implement its use and some standard ways of doing so that are generally accepted.


    Clomiphene Citrate-
    Increases production of gonadotropins by inhibiting negative feedback on the hypothalamus. It is also used in female infertility. Clomiphene has estrogenic and anti-estrogenic effects in the body. It also appears to stimulate the release of gonadotropins, follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), and leuteinizing hormone (LH).[2] Dosing of 30-100mg daily seems the norm for PCT use.

    Tamoxifen Citrate (Nolvadex )-
    Tamoxifen is usually used as an endocrine (anti-estrogen) therapy for hormone receptor-positive breast cancer in women. It is an antagonist of the estrogen receptor in the breast, while in other tissues it acts as an agonist sort of like how Clomid does.[3] Half-life is about 6 days, so ed to eod dosing is best for PCT use. 20-50mg daily seems the norm for this.

    Toremifene Citrate (Torem/Fareston)-
    Torem Is SERM similar to Tamoxifen (Nolva). Torem is also used to treat breast cancer and also does this by exerting estrogen antagonistic effects in certain tissues like breast tissue (anti-estrogen). It can act as an antagonist in the hypothalamus and pituitary, which could also increase testosterone production (why I recommend it as a PCT). Torem also seems to have a better ability to increase testosterone levels over Tamox because its andro to estro ratio is much greater than Tamox/Nolva. Half life is about 5 days. Dosing daily to eod is recommended for PCT use. Dosing of Torem for PCT at 20-100mg ed seems to be the norm.

    Raloxifene (Ralox)-
    Raloxifene is a second generation Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM). Raloxifene is similar in its action to that of tamoxifene but with much less of an increase in testosterone levels when compared to Tamox or Torem. The half-life is only about 27hrs so daily dosing is optimal for use in PCT. Dosing of 30-100mg ed seems to be the norm for PCT use.

    Prolactin Antagonizer (PA):

    Prami (Pramipexole)-
    Prami has actions similar to Cabergoline (another type of PA) but with a significantly more positive impact on libido and mood. Pramipexole acts as a dopamine agonist and one of dopamine's main function as a hormone is to inhibit the release of prolactin. Pramipexole plays an important role in the inhibition of prolactin secretion which is important to some using some types of steroids where prolactin build up may be an issue. Prami is also used for treating early-stage Parkinson's disease (PD) and restless legs syndrome (RLS).[4] Pramipexole has a half-life between 8-10 hours. Normal dosing is 0.25-0.5mg ED (pre-bedtime dosing is recommended as it make some feel a bit sleepy)


    Letrozole (Letro)-
    Letro lowers estrogen production in the body by blocking the aromatase enzyme, the enzyme responsible for estrogen synthesization. Letro has a very high rate of estrogen suppression in the area of 90%+, so care should be given to dosing as over suppression could lead to side effects associated with low estrogen levels, like achy joints, low energy levels etc. This can be an issue with all AIs but Letro is very good at its job and that leads to helping prevent bloating and gyno which may be associated with the use of AAS.[6] Letro has a fairly long active life so dosing of every other day, to even 1-2 times a week is optimal at doses of 0.25mg - 1.3mg.

    Anastrozole (aka LiquiDex/Dex)-
    Dex lowers estrogen production in the body by blocking the aromatase enzyme, the enzyme responsible for estrogen synthesization. Dosing of 0.5 mg to 1 mg a day should reduce serum estradiol about 50% in men,[5] which leads to helping prevent bloating and gyno which may be associated with the use of AAS. Active life is fairly short so daily to eod dosing is optimal.

    Exemestane (Stane/Aromasin )-
    Exemestane lowers estrogen production in the body by blocking the aromatase enzyme, the enzyme responsible for estrogen synthesization. Exemestane has about an 85% rate of estrogen suppression and does this by selectively inhibiting aromatase activity in a time-dependent and irreversible way. That helps prevent bloating and gyno which may be associated with the use of steroids. Stane has a fairly short active life so daily to every other day dosing is optimal.

    As you can see there is quite the selection of compounds and this I not all of them.
    I think these are the most often used, safe and effective for our topic today.

    How would I use this in a steroid cycle?

    Do I take it as soon as I stop them?

    Do I wait a few weeks?

    Well I will give you a few examples of how you would properly incorporate these compounds into your cycle, but something you need to understand is the compounds you are using.
    Steroids have differing release and clearance times!
    Some might leave your system in hours, like with more orals if you were to stop them today you could start PCT tomorrow (I do not recommend oral only cycles BTW, this is just an example).
    But if you were taking for example teste or testcyp, well if you stopped today you would wait 1-2 weeks before starting your PCT because their release times and active life are much longer then the orals.
    But some injectables are also very short in active life like NPP or trenAce, with then you would wait 2-4 days and start pct. It is very important to understand EVERY compound you put in your body to be able to use them safely and effectively.

    I will list a few examples of AAS cycles with an AI and PCT/SERM implemented:

    Wk1-12 500mg teste ew
    Wk1-14 0.6mg e3d (2X a week) Letro
    Wk14-18 PCT Clomid 50mg ed

    Wk1-14 500mg TestE ew
    Wk1-12 300mg Deca ew
    Wk4-15 0.25mg Prami ed (pre-bedtime)
    Wk1-16 12.5mg ed Stane
    Wk16-20 50mg Clomid and/or 20mg Nolvadex or 40mg Torem ed

    Wk1-10 50mg TrenAce eod
    Wk1-12 100mg TestProp eod
    Wk1-10 0.25mg Prami ed (pre bed)
    Wk1-13 12.5mg Stane ed
    Wk12/13-17 50mg Clomid ed

    Wk1-14 400mg TestE ew
    Wk1-14 400mg MastE ew
    Wk1-16 12.5mg Stane ed
    Wk16-20 30-50mg Clomid ed or 20-30mg Nolvadex ed

    You can see there are varying ways of doing things, and some may debate on what is best (in my op what I put is best lol) but the basics are there and should be followed regardless of your opinion.

    I hope this helps someone out with their Gyno, AI or PCT questions!


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