Is putting on mass the only way to increase lifts after a point?

[jerome simpson]

I've been lifting for years, dedicated strength training for over a year, and i believe i've hit a plateau. It was easy to keep improving my weights when i was growing, but i've reached a point where i don't want to put on any more weight. I'd like to keep around 185-187 (5'9", 12%BF) as my cardio gets affected more than i'd like when i put on more size. For reference, my lifts from a meet are: 285 bench, 405 squat, 455 dead.

Early on the 5x5 program worked, madcow was awesome, but i am not able to squat at these higher weights 3x a week while adding as much to the bar. I tried a "Russian" squat program that used different configurations of sets and reps with 315lbs for something different and it was ok, but pretty rough.

What are your thoughts? I'm sure i can make small gains at my current weight, or lower my BF so i gain LBM, but does there come a point where the only way to up the weights is to put on muscle? Thanks.

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I've been lifting for years, dedicated strength training for over a year, and i believe i've hit a plateau. It was easy to keep improving my weights when i was growing, but i've reached a point where i don't want to put on any more weight. I'd like to keep around 185-187 (5'9", 12%BF) as my cardio gets affected more than i'd like when i put on more size. For reference, my lifts from a meet are: 285 bench, 405 squat, 455 dead.

You did not provide much information, so it is hard to provide you with much feed back. However, let touch on one thing you said about...

Cardio

Steady State Cardio for lengthy periods is determinal to increasing strength and size. It cuts into the recovery time and is shown to decrease muscle mass.

So, describe the cardio you perform in detail.

Early on the 5x5 program worked, madcow was awesome, but i am not able to squat at these higher weights 3x a week while adding as much to the bar. I tried a "Russian" squat program that used different configurations of sets and reps with 315lbs for something different and it was ok, but pretty rough.

Overreaching/Overtraining

Not making progress is a sign that you are not recovering.

Short term is basically referred to as overreaching. Cutting back on your training takes care of this fairly quickly.

Overtraining is when you continue it over a longer time period. The longer you push it, the weaker you become and the longer it takes to recovery.

Non-Linear Periodization

An effective method of insuring you don't overreacher or over training is Non-Linear Periodization. That means you change things up frequently, about every four weeks or less.

Drop the training percentages/load down and "Reset/Recycle". Change something: exercises, sets, reps, rest periods, etc.

What are your thoughts? I'm sure i can make small gains at my current weight, or lower my BF so i gain LBM, but does there come a point where the only way to up the weights is to put on muscle? Thanks.

Increasing Muscle Mass

Increasing muscle mass always works. That is why there are weight classes in many sports.

Central Nervous System

With beginners, initial strength increases comes from more effecient activation of the central nervous system.

The CNS is you master computer that directs everything.

What you want to do is program your central nervous system to push/pull more weight.

Writing A Strength Training Program

As someone once said about computers, "Garbage in, garbage out".

The same thing applies with increasing strength, size, endurance, whatevery your objective is.

You need to "Write a strength training program" for your computer (central nervous system) that specifically tells it to 'Increase strength".

The Endurance-Strength See Saw

Think of Steady State Cardio endurance on one side of a See Saw and Limit Strength (1RM) on the other side of the See Saw.

When endurance goes up, strength goes down. You don't see big, strong marathon runners.

When strength goes up, endurance goes down. Few powerlifters/Olympic Lifter an run a mile.

"Chase Two Rabbits, You Will Lose Both"

The problem with performing too much cardio endurance training with strength training is that they cancel each other out.

Anerobic/Aerobic Cardio

The most effective method of increasing you aerobic capacity, decreasing body fat and insuring strength increases is High Intensity Interval Training. However, you don't want to over do it.

Strength Training

Lifting heavy load is the key to increasing strength. However, you also want incorporate some...

Power Training

Power is the grease that allows you to slide through you sticking point.

Incorporating the Westside Method and performing Olympic movements will increase you power.

Going To The Doctor

Writing a good strength training program is akin to going to the doctor and telling him your are sick.

It is hard for the doctor to prescribe the right medication or treatment without more information.

That is true with writing a strength training program.

You haven't provide mush information, so it is hard to know what "medicine" or "treatment" to provide for you.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[Burrn]

Kenny has some good points; consider this, as an x-powerlifter I can tell you there is a reason for weight classes. I was in the 185 pound class and there was no way I could lift as much as the 198s. Sure there are exceptions....but rare. I was benching around 350 at 185, my buddy was benching 450 at 198 and our big guy (heavyweight) was doing over 500.

 

[Dr.G]

jerome: it depends what your goals are...do you want to get stronger you will reach a point where you have to increase your weights and reduce some of your cardio training and probably gain some weight of which could be some fat. if you want to stay lean and increase a bit of muscle size and look good then there are no need to lift heavier at all, you need to change your routine , use variation, improve your form and technique , try different tempo in lifting, reduce a bit the cardio just to allow yourself a better recovery. right now i am gaining the most muscle with the lightest i have ever worked out.
good luck

 

[jerome simpson]

Thanks for the helpful comments everyone.

I think i still have room to improve my bench, but your comments reinforce my thinking i may be near the max of my CNS recrutement for squats/deads with my current size. Again, i don't want to put on size. I'm at 191 at 5'9", i'd like to be 185 but ripped and be able to sprint 100 yards fast if need be, so i'm looking to reduce BF while not loosing strength.

Cardio - I try to do some sort of cardio like stairmaster, biking etc for 10-15 minutes after lifting most days of the week. I also like HIIT type workouts and/or some combination of box jumps, burpees, barbell snatches, high pulls etc in rounds to get max HR. I don't see this as excessive, as my goal isn't to gain much more weight this just helps me burn cals (hopefully fat). I'm eating a lot of BB type food mostly consisting of meats and green vegetables, but the occasional cheat meal sneaks in there when i'm out and about so i need some cardio to keep my BF low. I also will do intense Oly sessions every now and then to mix it up where i try to minimize breaks, and this is pretty much a cardio workout.

Overtraining/periodization - I don't know how much i believe in this, seems most people that think they are doing it really aren't and just don't get enough food/rest. I'll re-evaluate my habits. I also think i'll switch up my training, and go for sets of 8-10 at 75% or something like that.

Anyone have any opinions of a full Smolov run vs Westside? Or just pick one for now and then go with the other later? ha. Do you see 5x5 programs as for more beginner/intermediate lifters, or does the concept have applicability for advanced lifters as well, and if so, how should it be tailored?

 

[Kenny Croxdale]

I think i still have room to improve my bench, but your comments reinforce my thinking i may be near the max of my CNS recrutement for squats/deads with my current size.

You can still improve your neural activation for you squat and deadlift. Saying your "near the max" for your squat/deadlift is similar to saying you've learn all you can learn. Learning is an on going process for your CNS, body and brain.

Overtraining/periodization - I don't know how much i believe in this, seems most people that think they are doing it really aren't and just don't get enough food/rest.

You've just defined what overreaching and overtraining is, not allowing enough rest/recovery before you next training session.

I'll re-evaluate my habits. I also think i'll switch up my training, and go for sets of 8-10 at 75% or something like that.

One of the keys to progress is chaning/switching thing up.

Anyone have any opinions of a full Smolov run vs Westside?

Westside works.

I've used a variation of it for 14 years, Complex Training.

Complex Training basically supersets a strength movement with a power and/or speed exercise.

Westside break thing up into Max Effort Days and Speed Days. Speed Days are misnomer, they are Power Days.

I am not familiar with Smolov.

Do you see 5x5 programs as for more beginner/intermediate lifters, or does the concept have applicability for advanced lifters as well, and if so, how should it be tailored?

5 X 5 works for everyone.

Kenny Croxdale

 

[heavylifting1]

Putting on some weight will help there are also drugs that can be used to help increase lifts. Them being usually Anadrol or Halotestin.

 

[the_predator]

Yes, anadrol is pretty awesome for strength gains.

 

[jerome simpson]

heh, i've thought about Halo. It might be a fun experiment sometime. First off I'd like to find ways to better train to increase my lifts on and off cycle. Already starting week five of something else at this point anyway, so yes i'm close to breaking my records, but i'm also putting on weight. A lean bulk/recomp where i've been eating less than i feel like eating has become a regular bulk while cutting BF (w/ very clean bb foods, no sugar etc). Anyway, I'd like my lifts to keep above my current record levels when i'm done with this run, and cut down.

 

[heavylifting1]

heh, i've thought about Halo. It might be a fun experiment sometime. First off I'd like to find ways to better train to increase my lifts on and off cycle. Already starting week five of something else at this point anyway, so yes i'm close to breaking my records, but i'm also putting on weight. A lean bulk/recomp where i've been eating less than i feel like eating has become a regular bulk while cutting BF (w/ very clean bb foods, no sugar etc). Anyway, I'd like my lifts to keep above my current record levels when i'm done with this run, and cut down.

Halo can help harden you up, but it will increase strength dramatically. Its worth using if you want to increase lifts.