Harry Reid: Obamacare A Train Wreck

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    Harry Reid: Obamacare A Train Wreck







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    In 1942 FDR re-instates the National War Labor Board which had the power to cap all wage increases. the rise of labor unions in the US during the 30's and 40's was putting upward pressure on wages which all started in 1915 with Henry Ford. US employers where allowed to circumvent this be offering fringe benefits in the way of health insurance.

    what was the end effect of this? by 1950 half of all company's with 250 workers had health insurance and two thirds of those with greater than 250 had health insurance.

    so historically what has the GOP done to fight for medical coverage for US workers...George W. Bush and the Medicare Part D plan, being the only contribution by the GOP in terms of providing health care to Americans in US history.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Harry Reid: Obamacare A Train Wreck

    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    In 1942 FDR re-instates the National War Labor Board which had the power to cap all wage increases. the rise of labor unions in the US during the 30's and 40's was putting upward pressure on wages which all started in 1915 with Henry Ford. US employers where allowed to circumvent this be offering fringe benefits in the way of health insurance.

    what was the end effect of this? by 1950 half of all company's with 250 workers had health insurance and two thirds of those with greater than 250 had health insurance.

    so historically what has the GOP done to fight for medical coverage for US workers...George W. Bush and the Medicare Part D plan, being the only contribution by the GOP in terms of providing health care to Americans in US history.

    John Stossel

    "President Obama didn’t kill American free-market health care. It began dying during World War II, when government imposed wage and price controls. At first, companies said, “Great, stability!” But then they realized that they could not attract better workers without raises. So companies got around the rules, as companies do. They gave “benefits,” like health insurance.

    Government then distorted the market further by giving employer-based health insurance better tax treatment than coverage you buy yourself."
    -S-

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    Fuck every entitlement program... If you want some thing earn it, the gov't should have no authority over the people and how we live. You may argue that i will not be forced on this program ect what ever. But these entitlement programs do effect my self and every other person in my generation or younger who is hard working. We pay x amount into social security with a bleak chance of even getting it. Where we are paying into things that may never affect us or we will never benefit from. We should can all entitlement programs use the money to increase more efficient transportation. Just buy lowering transportation costs could decrease the total living expenses of a house hold. IE goods will cost less due to transportation being more feasible. Use the money to increase funding in school systems, youth sports and rec activities. Fund non profites that support child hood cancer and ect. So when situations do arise where children have a horrible condition they can seek out the non profit for support, if there parents are not covered. No its not a perfect answer, but this should also inspire parents and generations to work hard, become education, and better them self.

    My opinion if you have minimum education, minimum experience, minimum work ethic, then you get minimum wage and minimum benefits.

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    When Obama came out with his health plan, the pharmaceutical and health care companies were against it. After a series of back-room (i.e. no disclosure of what was agreed upon), and changes to the plan, they're backing it now. If they like it, it can't be good for us.


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    also people should be able to depend on their community for support... I know for my self personally my church has helped many people not including members with medical expenses, keeping their homes, school clothes and supplies and ect. But wait were evil Christians that want to take all your money...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DOMS View Post
    When Obama came out with his health plan, the pharmaceutical and health care companies were against it. After a series of back-room (i.e. no disclosure of what was agreed upon), and changes to the plan, they're backing it now. If they like it, it can't be good for us.
    thats called they got a big gov't paycheck...Our Dr.'s just went through a HUGE seminar from it and they are being bribed basically to support it with exceptions, tax breaks, funding and ect. The docs i work with were mind blown they are not greedy most of them are great members of our community and give away allot of money, but they were like I make 50k a month, why do i need a break?

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    I don't think the Gov should provide health care...or food stamps, or housing voutures etc. Leave us alone and quit wasting our money.

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    unemployment should be an insurance policy that you take, you pay for it for x amount of time you x amount back. If you cant earn it you dont deserve it. If you can not survive on your own you because your family's expense not mine...

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    Health-Law Employer Mandate Delayed by Obama Admin. Until 2015

    Businesses won?t be penalized next year if they fail to provide workers health insurance after the Obama administration decided to delay a key requirement under its signature 2010 health-care law.
    The government will postpone enforcement of the so-called employer mandate until 2015, the administration said today. Under the provision, companies with 50 or more workers face a fine of as much as $3,000 per employee if they don?t offer affordable insurance.
    http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...d-to-2015.html

    lol this just keeps getting better and better. the individual mandate stays in place once again screwing the poor and middle class while giving big corporations a pass. Obama 2016!

    funny how its implantation will now be after the mid-term elections. coincidence? I think not.
    -S-

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    That fuk'n health care will get tossed out just wait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    Health-Law Employer Mandate Delayed by Obama Admin. Until 2015

    Businesses won?t be penalized next year if they fail to provide workers health insurance after the Obama administration decided to delay a key requirement under its signature 2010 health-care law.
    The government will postpone enforcement of the so-called employer mandate until 2015, the administration said today. Under the provision, companies with 50 or more workers face a fine of as much as $3,000 per employee if they don?t offer affordable insurance.
    http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...d-to-2015.html

    lol this just keeps getting better and better. the individual mandate stays in place once again screwing the poor and middle class while giving big corporations a pass. Obama 2016!

    funny how its implantation will now be after the mid-term elections. coincidence? I think not.
    And it will miraculously be the fault of republicans no matter the fact not one voted for the law.
    AY Fan Club President.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    And it will miraculously be the fault of republicans no matter the fact not one voted for the law.
    You forgot that it passed a republican majority house.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    You forgot that it passed a republican majority house.
    no it didn't . use your head. how can it pass a majority republican house when not one of them voted for it? democrats controlled the house, senate and the White House at that time obamacare was passed. remember, pelosi was speaker of the house when she said " you got to pass it to see whats in it". lol.
    Last edited by Swiper; 07-04-2013 at 01:56 AM.
    -S-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    no it didn't . use your head. how can it pass a majority republican house when not one of them voted for it? democrats controlled the house, senate and the White House at that time obamacare was passed. remember, pelosi was speaker of the house when she said " you got to pass it to see whats in it". lol.
    Yup, you're right. My mistake.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay_steel View Post
    Fuck every entitlement program... If you want some thing earn it, the gov't should have no authority over the people and how we live. You may argue that i will not be forced on this program ect what ever. But these entitlement programs do effect my self and every other person in my generation or younger who is hard working. We pay x amount into social security with a bleak chance of even getting it. Where we are paying into things that may never affect us or we will never benefit from. We should can all entitlement programs use the money to increase more efficient transportation. Just buy lowering transportation costs could decrease the total living expenses of a house hold. IE goods will cost less due to transportation being more feasible. Use the money to increase funding in school systems, youth sports and rec activities. Fund non profites that support child hood cancer and ect. So when situations do arise where children have a horrible condition they can seek out the non profit for support, if there parents are not covered. No its not a perfect answer, but this should also inspire parents and generations to work hard, become education, and better them self.

    My opinion if you have minimum education, minimum experience, minimum work ethic, then you get minimum wage and minimum benefits.
    It is quite possible that you are going to see the type of society that you want during your lifetime.

    Huge numbers of part time employed people in service jobs that get minimum wages and minimum benefits.

    The entire American middle class is seeing stagnate wages and reduction in their benefits to allow capture capital at the top of the economic class structure.
    Most new jobs are being created in low paying jobs with low or no benefit service areas.
    This is escalating the increase in the number of people on big government socialist programs.

    A good example of this shift in job market dynamics is Wal-mart.
    At the same time they are steering their employees towards tax payer funded big government provided socialist benefits like food stamps, section 8 housing and Medicaid they are funding 16 billion dollars worth of stock buybacks.
    I have read estimates that the cost to the taxpayers for providing government provided socialist benefits to low wage low benefit Wal-Mart employees is in the range of 3 billion dollars a year.
    Guess who is paying the bill?
    You, I and every other taxpayer that gets a paycheck and pays taxes.

    Wal-Mart is funneling billions of dollars all of their free cash capital after operating expenses in the form of stock buy-backs towards the top economic investor and wealthy class.
    That includes the Walton family that benefits financially from not providing living wages and adequate health care coverage for their employes so that they can see increases in their stock share prices due to stock buy-backs.
    Stock shares that have a 15% capital gains tax rate.

    The result is that the taxpayers pick up the bill for this type of corporate welfare and low tax rates on capital gains that mostly benefits wealthy stock holders that hold most stock outside of retirement plans.

    Another thing is that this capital is not 'trickling down' and creating large numbers of jobs that pay middle class living wages and provide good benefits.
    The capital is being retained at the top of the economic classes.
    Like I pointed out the majority of new jobs are being created in low paying jobs with low or no benefits within service areas.
    Last edited by Bowden; 07-04-2013 at 07:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay_steel View Post
    Fuck every entitlement program... If you want some thing earn it, the gov't should have no authority over the people and how we live. You may argue that i will not be forced on this program ect what ever. But these entitlement programs do effect my self and every other person in my generation or younger who is hard working. We pay x amount into social security with a bleak chance of even getting it. Where we are paying into things that may never affect us or we will never benefit from. We should can all entitlement programs use the money to increase more efficient transportation. Just buy lowering transportation costs could decrease the total living expenses of a house hold. IE goods will cost less due to transportation being more feasible. Use the money to increase funding in school systems, youth sports and rec activities. Fund non profites that support child hood cancer and ect. So when situations do arise where children have a horrible condition they can seek out the non profit for support, if there parents are not covered. No its not a perfect answer, but this should also inspire parents and generations to work hard, become education, and better them self.

    My opinion if you have minimum education, minimum experience, minimum work ethic, then you get minimum wage and minimum benefits.
    Careful what you wish for. You just might get it.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    no it didn't . use your head. how can it pass a majority republican house when not one of them voted for it? democrats controlled the house, senate and the White House at that time obamacare was passed. remember, pelosi was speaker of the house when she said " you got to pass it to see whats in it". lol.
    fuckin' a

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    no it didn't . use your head. how can it pass a majority republican house when not one of them voted for it? democrats controlled the house, senate and the White House at that time obamacare was passed. remember, pelosi was speaker of the house when she said " you got to pass it to see whats in it". lol.
    it was passed via conciliation, the same way Bush pushed through his tax cuts in 2001 and 2003.

    since 1981 reconciliation has been used to push legislation through Congress 14 times by the GOP and 7 by the democrats.


    PolitiFact | Reid says Republicans have used reconciliation more than Democrats

    http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/res...ation_mann.pdf
    Last edited by LAM; 07-05-2013 at 09:42 PM.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    The Budget Reconciliation Process:
    The Senate?s ?Byrd Rule?
    Updated March 20, 2008

    http://assets.opencrs.com/rpts/RL30862_20080320.pdf

    and if you look at the list above where you see TRA97 that was the legislation that started off the Housing Market Bubble. from the Case Shiller Historical Index below you can see where home values shoot up immediately after that legislation was passed.

    http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/wp-cont...er-updated.png
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay_steel View Post
    Fuck every entitlement program... If you want some thing earn it, the gov't should have no authority over the people and how we live. You may argue that i will not be forced on this program ect what ever. But these entitlement programs do effect my self and every other person in my generation or younger who is hard working. We pay x amount into social security with a bleak chance of even getting it. Where we are paying into things that may never affect us or we will never benefit from. We should can all entitlement programs use the money to increase more efficient transportation. Just buy lowering transportation costs could decrease the total living expenses of a house hold. IE goods will cost less due to transportation being more feasible. Use the money to increase funding in school systems, youth sports and rec activities. Fund non profites that support child hood cancer and ect. So when situations do arise where children have a horrible condition they can seek out the non profit for support, if there parents are not covered. No its not a perfect answer, but this should also inspire parents and generations to work hard, become education, and better them self.

    My opinion if you have minimum education, minimum experience, minimum work ethic, then you get minimum wage and minimum benefits.
    well your opinion doesn't mean jack squat.

    the US spends the 3rd lowest on the social safety net as a percentage of GDP, we also have the least protected workers in the OECD ranking 31 out of 31 country's. suprisingly the countr's that spend more on the social safety net have less crime, less unemployment and higher functioning economy's.

    "belief" systems have no place in real world economics...
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    the only thing I see in America is that the rich become more wealthy and everyone else is fucked.

    Private companies/industry run the U.S., not the government.
    I try to avoid politics because everything just seems backwards and fucked up all around. If don't see things getting better any time soon no matter who is elected..

    I do believe every American has the right to basic things: food, shelter, education no matter their economic standing..
    " A cookie without sugar is just a cracker" ~ ancient voodoo proverb
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROID View Post
    the only thing I see in America is that the rich become more wealthy and everyone else is fucked.

    Private companies/industry run the U.S., not the government.
    I try to avoid politics because everything just seems backwards and fucked up all around. If don't see things getting better any time soon no matter who is elected..

    I do believe every American has the right to basic things: food, shelter, education no matter their economic standing..
    you are spot on because it doesn't get any better, not for the majority or roughly the bottom 70%. it only gets worst and worst every year for those dependent on labor wages to live a.k.a the proletariat. the next two recessions coming down the road are going to decimate the working class.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    The problem isn't so much Republican or Democrat.

    The problem is people with money and power using their power to make money on the backs of middle class America.

    And what everyone in this thread is saying about the middle class getting less and less, they are 100% correct.

    For me one of the most frustrating things is that this cycle is ultimately self destructive to the country as people will have less buying power which means less demand for good and services.
    Too bad that many people who are in control right now don't really care about what kind of mess they leave behind (or at least they don't care enough to do the right thing).

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    Quote Originally Posted by D86 View Post
    The problem isn't so much Republican or Democrat.

    The problem is people with money and power using their power to make money on the backs of middle class America.

    And what everyone in this thread is saying about the middle class getting less and less, they are 100% correct.

    For me one of the most frustrating things is that this cycle is ultimately self destructive to the country as people will have less buying power which means less demand for good and services.
    Too bad that many people who are in control right now don't really care about what kind of mess they leave behind (or at least they don't care enough to do the right thing).
    glad to see some people get it.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    glad to see some people get it.
    Lawrence Lessig did a great presentation at Ted Talks a while back.

    Lawrence Lessig: We the People, and the Republic we must reclaim | Video on TED.com
    Last edited by D86; 07-06-2013 at 10:48 PM. Reason: Because I suck at embedding video

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROID View Post
    I do believe every American has the right to basic things: food, shelter, education no matter their economic standing..
    Those aren't rights, they're privileges from living in a country with other people who create wealth.

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    At this point the healthcare system is so manipulated maybe we should just go to single payer and cut out the whole insurance farce.

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