Senator Obama Sponsored Stand Your Ground Bill In Illinois

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    Senator Obama Sponsored Stand Your Ground Bill In Illinois

    President Obama may currently be calling on the states to review their respective ?stand your ground? gun laws, but he wasn?t always so opposed to the right-to-carry rule.

    In 2004, while a senator in Illinois, he co-sponsored legislation that allowed for the same rights.

    The pertinent legislation was SB 2386, amending the criminal code of 1961. It was introduced in the 93rd General Assembly session and passed into law on July 28, 2004.

    The text summary read: ?Provides that it is an affirmative defense to a violation of a municipal ordinance that prohibits, regulates or restricts the private ownership of firearms if the individual who is charged with the violation used the firearm in an act of self-defense or defense of another. Effective immediately.?

    The Illinois General Assembly website indicates then-Sen. Obama signed on as a co-sponsor on March 25, 2004.

    Fast-forward to 2013, post-acquittal of Florida resident George Zimmerman, and Mr. Obama is now denouncing the very same laws he once supported.

    [link to m.washingtontimes.com]

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    While I recognize your distain for president, and share some of your sentiments. It could just be that he changed his mind. I change my mind all the time, he is after all just a man.

    And a more direct question to you as a fellow Illinois resident. Can we concealed carry now? They have made this so confussing. My understanding is that with a 15 hour gun safety class gets you an additional permit to carry... is that correct?


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    I dont think its been passed yet

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    In Pa. all you need are references and a clear criminal record

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    Quote Originally Posted by FUZO View Post
    I dont think its been passed yet
    It seems like the media is trying to confuse us out of taking action...


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    and this post validates my point about the sheep being easily distracted by the mainstream media...
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    and this post validates my point about the sheep being easily distracted by the mainstream media...
    baaaaah

    seriously I have been interested in this. as I work in chicago in some rather questionable areas. If your familiar with chicago recently the gun violence is really heavy. I would really be a good canididate for having a weapon on me. and Im not a gun nut. I dont want one to feel better about myself. I want one for legit safety issues. so I have been following this story with passive interest. but the media will not give a straight story.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dieseljimmy View Post
    bso I have been following this story with passive interest. but the media will not give a straight story.
    exactly...when is anything truly learned from mainstream media? you can't learn anything of value from propaganda. it only does one thing and that is to elicit an emotional reaction which hampers the critical thinking process.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    I am all for gun rights, but if you are going to carry that gun you need to take in some factors such as don't pursue activities that may increase your chances of needing to escalate to the point of standing your ground...


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    Quote Originally Posted by maniclion View Post
    I am all for gun rights, but if you are going to carry that gun you need to take in some factors such as don't pursue activities that may increase your chances of needing to escalate to the point of standing your ground...


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
    exactly...
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Sometimes just sitting at home shit escalates to the point you need to stand your ground.

    Georgia Mom Hiding With Kids, Shoots Intruder - ABC News
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    Sometimes just sitting at home shit escalates to the point you need to stand your ground.

    Georgia Mom Hiding With Kids, Shoots Intruder - ABC News
    Perfectly justified. Although here in Hawaii the mother would have to prove that her life and that of her kids was in jeopardy, even in her own home, which is BS. Your home is your Castle and you should be able to defend it from any perceived threat, maybe her life might not have been in jeopardy, maybe the guy would have left as soon as he realized someone was home. Still her and the kids future sense of security in their own home was in jeopardy and that shouldn't be infringed upon as much as their lives shouldn't be. Life and well-being are at stake when someone intrudes into the sanctuary of your home and I wish Hawaii would amend its laws to include such.


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    but oh they have yet to be experienced and that makes aging so very worth it...ML circa2012

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    Also the article says she shot him in the face and neck, but was being treated for multiple punctures in the liver, stomach, lungs...???... That must've been some car crash if his bullet wounds were less severe than his crash injuries which left punctures in his torso...


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    The trouble with shooting an intruder in your own home only comes after you call the police. Chances are, no one but you were aware of their presence. Just hack them up on some trash bags and run the parts down the garbage disposal
    "When in doubt, whip it out"- Mother Teresa

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    Illinois Concealed Carry Permits, Specific Regulations And Other Details On Deck Following New Law


    Illinois Concealed Carry Permits, Specific Regulations And Other Details On Deck Following New Law Posted: 07/10/2013 12:28 pm EDT | Updated: 07/10/2013 2:51 pm EDT




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    Concealed carry permits won't likely be issued in Illinois until 2014. (Shutterstock)



    Gun rights supporters notched a victory Tuesday after Illinois lawmakers shot down Gov. Pat Quinn's veto of concealed carry legislation on the same day the state hit its court-mandated deadline to end the long-standing ban on concealed weapons.
    Though concealed carry is now legal in the Land of Lincoln, would-be permit holders will need to fill out applications, pay some fees, take training courses ? and exercise lots of patience.
    (See below for a breakdown of restrictions, timelines and more info on Illinois' new concealed carry.)
    Concealed carry permits won't likely be issued until 2014, according to the Tribune. The delay is on account of the miles of bureaucratic red tape lawmakers have yet to wade through before any Illinoisan can discreetly pack heat.
    With the law enacted, details of what comprises the actual concealed carry permit must still be hammered out. Additionally, local ordinances are still being determined and privately-owned areas like grocery stores and movie theaters will mull whether to restrict weapons or not and police have long months of wading through an anticipated flood of firearms applications ahead of them.
    Out-of-state permit holders looking to jump the line are out of luck, too: Illinois' law does not allow for reciprocity, meaning an Iowan with a concealed carry permit cannot legally carry in Illinois until she or he secures an Illinois concealed carry permit.
    CONCEALED CARRY ON LOCAL LEVELS:Chicago officials are hoping to move quick and tighten local ordinances. The suburbs, meanwhile, have ten days to determine if they want to make concealed carry laws stricter by banning assault weapons within their borders.

    As lawmakers scramble to get permits, new language and other regulations in order on schedule with the language of the law, political wags are likely to keep close track of which lawmakers continue to be pro and anti-gun -- particularly in the ever-crowding 2014 gubernatorial race.

    CHICAGO:
    Mayor Rahm Emanuel voiced his dismay over the state legislature's decision Tuesday, and the Sun-Times reports without the stricter state-wide rules, Emanuel plans to push ahead with three priorities:

    • Revising and strengthening an assault weapons ban expected to be approved by the City Council next week
    • Comprehensive background check prior to gun purchases
    • Tougher prison sentences for gun crimes and time served

    SUBURBS:
    According to the new law, towns with more than 25,000 people can enact local rules similar to Cook County's assault weapons ban, the Daily Herald reports.
    WHERE CONCEALED CARRY IS STILL BANNED:
    Under the new law, concealed weapons will still be banned in areas like schools, parks, government facilities, buses and trains (including CTA and Metra), bars or restaurants where the sale of booze accounts for more than 50 percent of the business.
    As the Tribune notes, a flurry of amendments to the state's concealed carry law are likely to crop up as lawmakers determine nitty gritty of details like how to define "mostly" in the law's language that weapons must be "concealed or mostly concealed from public view."

    CONCEALED CARRY TIMELINE:
    According to the Illinois State Police, starting July 9:

    • ISP have 180 days to make concealed carry applications available to the public (applications will be provided via the ISP website)
    • New concealed carry licenses will be issued 90 days after a qualified application is submitted; ISP has 30 days to file an objection to any application
    • ISP has 60 days to approve firearms instructors and training courses for permit-seekers

    COST, LIMITS, RESTRICTIONS:
    In addition to cost ($150 for a 5-year-permit for state residents, $300 for out-of-state residents), pre-requisites (permit holders must also have a valid FOID card) and education requirements (nothing less than a high school diploma or GED), the ISP outlines the additional barriers to securing a permit.
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    How gun law works: Likely 2014 before permits issued

    Concealed carry permits likely won't be issued until next year

    July 10, 2013|By David Heinzmann, Monique Garcia and Jeremy Gorner, Chicago Tribune reporters

























    The new law?s definition of ?concealed or mostly concealed from public view? may need to be clarified. (Anthony Souffle, Chicago Tribune)


    Illinois lawmakers overrode Gov. Pat Quinn's veto of concealed carry legislation on Tuesday, but it will likely be 2014 before any firearm owners are permitted to pack handguns in public.
    The last state to adopt a concealed carry law, Illinois now has to set about building a bureaucracy to process applications ? which could number in the hundreds of thousands in the first year ? screening out people with prohibitive criminal records or conditions of mental illness that police believe could make them dangerous if armed.





    While gun owners may have questions about how soon they'll be able to carry guns in public, other state residents may also have questions about where they can expect to find people armed with deadly weapons. And where guns will still be banned.
    Schools, parks, government facilities, buses and commuter trains, bars or restaurants where more than half the business is alcohol sales, and several other public places will continue to be banned areas, according to the law. But at many privately owned places, such as grocery stores and shopping malls, the decision will be up to business operators and property owners.
    Passage of the law Tuesday started the clock ticking on answering a number of tricky questions about how it will be administered.
    For instance, the legislation defined "concealed" as a carrying a firearm in a manner that is "concealed or mostly concealed from public view." What exactly "mostly" means remains unclear to some in law enforcement, state police spokeswoman Monique Bond said.
    The definition was one of the issues that Quinn wanted to clarify in his revisions to the legislation, which lawmakers rejected. But both sides on the gun debate agreed lawmakers may need to tweak the law with amendments even as authorities are working on rolling out the regulations.
    Illinois State Police officials have 180 days ? roughly six months ? to create an application process. Once they begin accepting applications, Bond said it will take them about 90 days to process and screen the first round of applications and begin issuing permits. Until then, the ban on concealed carry will remain officially in effect.
    But how that will play out across the state could vary, say some backers of the law.
    Rep. Brandon Phelps, a Democrat from downstate Harrisburg who sponsored the bill, said some residents are already carrying guns in public in counties where they believe they won't be prosecuted for doing so as long as they have a valid firearm owners identification, or FOID, card.
    "I had phone calls already saying, 'Guess what? I'm carrying,' " Phelps said Tuesday after the legislature voted. "I said, 'Well, that's illegal.' ... But they're doing it."
    Based on the flow of FOID card applications, state police officials anticipate that as many as 300,000 state residents will apply for permits in the first year, Bond said. To handle the requests state police will create a new Concealed Carry Unit that will cost about $25million to launch and operate, she said. If the state's projected numbers hold up, 300,000 applications would create about $45 million in revenue from the $150 permit fee.
    The laundry list of tasks for the state police and the governor's office include creating the application system, identifying and authorizing firearms trainers and firing ranges to carry out 16-hour training courses mandated by the law, and probably modifying the Law Enforcement Agencies Data Systems computer database to accommodate the background checks, Bond said.



    The governor also will have to appoint a seven-member Concealed Carry Licensing Review Board to handle objections to permits lodged by law enforcement and mental health officials. The law requires the board to be made up of mostly people with experience as federal law enforcement or court officers.
    State police will have to run background checks, including fingerprint searches, on all applicants, Bond said. One of the most complicated tasks will be searching for evidence of mental illness, she said. County and state mental health agencies, as well as courts, will report mental health issues to the state, she said.
    Under the new law, police and prosecutors can object to a permit on several grounds if they believe a person is a danger to themselves or others. In addition to mental health issues, objections can be filed if a person has been arrested five or more times in the previous seven years, or three or more times on gang-related charges.
    Applicants can be rejected for two or more convictions related to driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs or if they underwent residential or court-ordered treatment for substance abuse in the last five years.
    Reaction from law enforcement has been mixed.
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    Home>Featured Articles(Page 2 of 2)
    How gun law works: Likely 2014 before permits issued

    Concealed carry permits likely won't be issued until next year

    July 10, 2013|By David Heinzmann, Monique Garcia and Jeremy Gorner, Chicago Tribune reporters























    Several Chicago police officers who work in high-crime neighborhoods said they support the law, in part because law-abiding citizens who live in dangerous neighborhoods may have a better chance to defend themselves. The officers, who spoke on the condition that they not be identified, agreed that there would be a learning curve for police officers encountering people permitted to be armed.
    "I think it'll be a little bit of a rough start in the beginning," said one officer who works in a South Side district. "I'm happy for the average citizen who is not up to no good."





    That attitude is not in step with the Chicago Police Department's top brass. Superintendent Garry McCarthy and Mayor Rahm Emanuel have opposed concealed carry, saying that more people carrying guns is the last thing that's needed in Chicago, home to some of the most violent neighborhoods in the country.
    "The answer to guns is not more guns," McCarthy said when asked about the law at an unrelated news conference Monday. "We're going to have tragedies. ... It needs to be controlled in a reasonable fashion. And I don't see that that's happening right now.
    Training, both to shoot a gun accurately and to do so in a life-and-death situation, is a concern shared by McCarthy and other law enforcement experts as they evaluate the new law. A former federal agent who spent many years as a firearms trainer said the willingness and ability to use deadly force should be a daunting and serious consideration for people planning to apply for a permit.
    When a person feels threatened, using a gun becomes more difficult than firing at targets at a gun range, said the former agent, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
    "When your heart rate goes up in a stressful situation, your fine motor skills deteriorate. You get tunnel vision," he said. "The added stress of not knowing whether you have the skills to fire a well-placed shot ? to eliminate that, you need to practice."
    Federal agents shoot anywhere from hundreds to more than a thousand rounds of ammunition a year to maintain their shooting skills.
    Although they trained for years with firearms and had been in numerous dangerous situations on the street, the former agent said he and his colleagues had a joke to sum up their attitudes about guns: "Best way to survive a gunfight is don't be there when the gunfight happens."
    Tribune reporter Ray Long contributed.
    dheinzmann@tribune.com
    mcgarcia@tribune.com
    jgorner@tribune.com


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    Quote Originally Posted by withoutrulers View Post
    The trouble with shooting an intruder in your own home only comes after you call the police. Chances are, no one but you were aware of their presence. Just hack them up on some trash bags and run the parts down the garbage disposal
    If you have acreage and a small backhoe a hole in the ground will suffice.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Love how this turned into a "How to dispose of a corpse" thread
    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by withoutrulers View Post
    The trouble with shooting an intruder in your own home only comes after you call the police. Chances are, no one but you were aware of their presence. Just hack them up on some trash bags and run the parts down the garbage disposal
    garbage disposals hate long stringy materials like corn husk/silk and hair. just a heads up...


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    If you're going to chop up a body it's best to order out for a pizza and eat the pizza before going to work on chopping up. It's less messy because the whole thing with the pizza gives the blood time to congeal enough so it doesn't splatter so readily. Got that from reading about some mob enforcers disposing of the bodies of people they killed.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    I am a gun owner and former holder of a CCW permit in WA state (I let it expire b/c I live overseas).

    Question about Stand your ground law.

    Is there a blurred line between Stand you ground and self-defense?

    I presume SyG makes it more legally justifiable to use the gun in self-defense as opposes to a state w/out a SyG law.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Smoothy View Post
    I am a gun owner and former holder of a CCW permit in WA state (I let it expire b/c I live overseas).

    Question about Stand your ground law.

    Is there a blurred line between Stand you ground and self-defense?

    I presume SyG makes it more legally justifiable to use the gun in self-defense as opposes to a state w/out a SyG law.
    Stand-your-ground law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    A stand-your-ground law is a type of self-defense law that gives individuals the right to use reasonable force to defend themselves without any requirement to evade or retreat from a dangerous situation. It is law in certain jurisdictions within the United States. The basis may lie in either statutory law and or common law precedents. One key distinction is whether the concept only applies to defending a home or vehicle, or whether it applies to all lawfully occupied locations. Under these legal concepts, a person is justified in using deadly force in certain situations and the "stand your ground" law would be a defense or immunity to criminal charges and civil suit. The difference between immunity and a defense is that an immunity bars suit, charges, detention and arrest. A defense, such as an affirmative defense, permits a plaintiff or the state to seek civil damages or a criminal conviction but may offer mitigating circumstances that justify the accused's conduct
    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    Sheep get their news from the media, I get my news from Facebook. That's where the real unbiased news is found. any everyone from IM that is friends with me on FB knows this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Smoothy View Post
    Is there a blurred line between Stand you ground and self-defense?
    The right to self defense, up to including killer your aggressor, comes with a certain criteria that you need to meet. Such as running away if they chance prevents itself. The stand tour ground laws allow your to defend yourself, while meeting fewer of the requirements.

    That's a simplified description, but it gets the point across. There is certainly an overlap, but, in the legal sense, not very blurry. You still need to meet certain requirements.


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    Stand your ground wasn't used in the Zimmeman case, only self defense.

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