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First time for 40 year old

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  1. #1
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    First time for 40 year old






    Gents,

    I would appreciated if you can share your thoughts on my cycle (first time) or diet.
    I am 40 years old, 5?7? and 160 lbs with 14 ? 16 % body fat.

    Cycle:
    Week 1-4: Dbol 30mg/day
    Week 1-10: Test cyp 500mg/week; 2 injections/week
    Week 1-10: Arimidex 0.5mg/eod
    Week 11-12: off
    PCT:
    Week 13: Nolva 40mg/d
    Week 14: Nolva 40mg/d
    Week 15: Nolva 20mg/d
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    7 ? 8am
    Protein shake
    An apple

    9 ? 10am
    6? Subway egg/bacon/cheese on flat bread

    12 ? 1pm
    Subway 6? chicken or steak sandwich (sometimes Five guys or Chipotle)
    Protein shake

    3 ? 4pm
    Protein bar

    6 ? 7pm
    Grill chicken
    Sweet potato, mashed potato, or corn

    9 ? 10pm
    Protein shake

    I also take 1g of vitamins and one/day multivitamins.

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    I'm willing to bet that you are going to need more than a 3 week PCT to recover from a 12 week cycle.

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    What do you suggest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tokijava View Post
    What do you suggest?
    Protocol for a 6 week all oral cycle is 4 weeks PCT and that always seemed to work best for me. Personally, I have never PCT'd after an AAS cycle. I hopped on and was hooked. Blast and cruise for me. However, from what I have gathered from research and just reading logs/forum posts/ect, the typical PCT for a 12 week AAS cycle is typically 6 weeks minimum.

    As always, the best thing to do is to have your PCT laid out before you start your cycle. After your allotted PCT time, get blood work done. That is really the only true way to know whether or not you are recovered. I just dont see you being recovered after 3 weeks of Nolva.

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    My plan was 3 weeks for PCT and wait 15 weeks before starting a 2nd cycle, time on = time off.
    Obviously, I will get a blood work done before starting 2nd cycle. I already done my blood work before starting the cycle. Today is my 2nd day.
    If you do PCT for 6 weeks, do you wait for sometime before starting 2nd cycle provided that blood work shows normal?



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    Again, it's all in your personal preference. But you are right. Protocol is time on=time off. Essentially, you'd be putting your second cycle off for an additional 6 weeks. 3 extra weeks of PCT and 3 extra weeks of being off. I, for one, dont necessarily think you need to take 18 weeks off between cycles though as long as you are fully recovered and feeling fine.

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    1. Run your PCT for at least 4 weeks
    2. Get your hands on some HCG and run it starting in week 2 at 250iu's twice per week. Stop the week you start PCT
    3. Your diet sucks bro. 3 protein shakes and a protein bar is not what you need. You need to be taking in at minimum 320g of protein per day and I would do my best to get that from real foods like eggs, egg whites, chicken, Talapia, Cod, Turkey, Tuna, 93 lean ground beef. Your carbs should be coming from things like Oatmeal, Ezekiel bread, Natural PB, Asparagus, Kale, rice and potato's. And your fats from Natural PB, Avocados, Almonds, Walnuts, Virgin Olive Oil.

    What are your goals, to gain weight and size, then eat at the macro's for that weight but keep it clean. Your names not Jared!!!!

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    Thanks,

    Quote Originally Posted by mac10chap View Post
    Again, it's all in your personal preference. But you are right. Protocol is time on=time off. Essentially, you'd be putting your second cycle off for an additional 6 weeks. 3 extra weeks of PCT and 3 extra weeks of being off. I, for one, dont necessarily think you need to take 18 weeks off between cycles though as long as you are fully recovered and feeling fine.

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    Thanks, I am not sure if I can digest that much food but I will do my best. Hopefully, the cycle increases my appetite.
    My goal is to gain weight and size and it appears I will definitely consume lot more calories.

    Again, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by aja44 View Post
    1. Run your PCT for at least 4 weeks
    2. Get your hands on some HCG and run it starting in week 2 at 250iu's twice per week. Stop the week you start PCT
    3. Your diet sucks bro. 3 protein shakes and a protein bar is not what you need. You need to be taking in at minimum 320g of protein per day and I would do my best to get that from real foods like eggs, egg whites, chicken, Talapia, Cod, Turkey, Tuna, 93 lean ground beef. Your carbs should be coming from things like Oatmeal, Ezekiel bread, Natural PB, Asparagus, Kale, rice and potato's. And your fats from Natural PB, Avocados, Almonds, Walnuts, Virgin Olive Oil.

    What are your goals, to gain weight and size, then eat at the macro's for that weight but keep it clean. Your names not Jared!!!!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokijava View Post
    Gents,

    I would appreciated if you can share your thoughts on my cycle (first time) or diet.
    I am 40 years old, 5?7? and 160 lbs with 14 ? 16 % body fat.

    Cycle:
    Week 1-4: Dbol 30mg/day
    Week 1-10: Test cyp 500mg/week; 2 injections/week
    Week 1-10: Arimidex 0.5mg/eod
    Week 11-12: off
    PCT:
    Week 13: Nolva 40mg/d
    Week 14: Nolva 40mg/d
    Week 15: Nolva 20mg/d
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    7 ? 8am
    Protein shake
    An apple

    9 ? 10am
    6? Subway egg/bacon/cheese on flat bread

    12 ? 1pm
    Subway 6? chicken or steak sandwich (sometimes Five guys or Chipotle)
    Protein shake

    3 ? 4pm
    Protein bar

    6 ? 7pm
    Grill chicken
    Sweet potato, mashed potato, or corn

    9 ? 10pm
    Protein shake

    I also take 1g of vitamins and one/day multivitamins.

    Nice cycle layout, it is a great cycle for a beginner, and will yield nice gains.

    Since you do want to PCT clomid is far superior are restoring LH and FH levels than nolva, Keep the nolva on hand in case of a gyno flare up ei sensitive nips, or if any lumps may form under your nipple areas. Also if you can get your hands on aromasin, at least for PCT because it is a type 1 AI, it lowers estrogen production, by attaching to thee aromatase enzyme and destroying it like a suicide bomber, hence why its a suicidal inhibitor. arimidex is a type 2 AI, this mean it blocks estrogen by attaching to the aromatase enzyme, allowing it not to convert how ever, since the enzyme is never destroyed, once the use of adex is discontinued, if not tapered off can cause estro rebound, which is not a fun experience.

    HCG in my opinion at 40 wouldn't be worth it to you, I'm assuming you have kids,or are done with having kids, and you can fully recover from this cycle with clomid, and a great AI, Also have you considered going on TRT? At 40 it could be very beneficial to you.

    I would run the following,

    1-12 Test CYP 500mg/wl
    1-4 Dbol 40mg/ed
    1-12 Adex .5mg eod or Aromasin 25mg/ed

    PCT

    14 100mg Clomid/ 25mg Aromasin
    15 75mg Clomid / 25mg Aromasin
    16 75mg Clomid / 25mg Aromasin
    17 50mg Clomid / 12.5mg Aromasin
    18 50mg Clomid / 12.5mg Aromasin


    This will recover you just fine, even at age 40. But again look into trt, and for a better PCT experience use a type 1 AI as while you are on PCT the increase of LH and FH will dramatically increase estrogen, hence why many people feel so emotional on clomid. Aromasin fixes that issue.

    Good luck brother.

  12. #12
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    As for you diet to lose bf while increasing muscle you need the following

    Workout days - 3214 total cals
    240g Protien - 960cals
    394-395g Carbs - 1577 give or take depending on what you consume
    75g Fats - 677 cals

    Non workout days - 2487 total cals
    240g Protien - 960 cals
    114g Carbs - 451 cals
    118g Fats - 1068 cals


    Workout days, items like Rice, Pasta, Potatoes should fuel your carb intake, along side incidental fats you get from the meat you eat, like fish, lean meats, chicken, and nuts.
    Non workout days - avoid starches, you will get your carb intake from greens.

    Without going into to much detail into this diet, this will allow you to have the energy you need on workout days, as well as the protein, but then carbs will drop and fat will rise on rest days, all the while the protein stays the same, creating an environment in your body that will not only help you lose fat, but gain muscle at the same time.

    Again I do not know your workout routine, or what you do, these are just estimates on what Ive seen from your intitial post and age into consideration. No need to follow it to a T but rather a general reference as I do not have every variable that can come into play.

    Again good luck to you.

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    Thanks OldschoolLifter,

    I really appreicate your detailed suggestion about PCT.

    I was thinking about using HCG but I will use Clomid and Aromasin for PCT as I have 2 kids and done.

    I am assuming TRT stands for test replacement therapy? No I never thought about it. What is the difference being on a cycle and TRT?


    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolLifter View Post
    Nice cycle layout, it is a great cycle for a beginner, and will yield nice gains.

    Since you do want to PCT clomid is far superior are restoring LH and FH levels than nolva, Keep the nolva on hand in case of a gyno flare up ei sensitive nips, or if any lumps may form under your nipple areas. Also if you can get your hands on aromasin, at least for PCT because it is a type 1 AI, it lowers estrogen production, by attaching to thee aromatase enzyme and destroying it like a suicide bomber, hence why its a suicidal inhibitor. arimidex is a type 2 AI, this mean it blocks estrogen by attaching to the aromatase enzyme, allowing it not to convert how ever, since the enzyme is never destroyed, once the use of adex is discontinued, if not tapered off can cause estro rebound, which is not a fun experience.

    HCG in my opinion at 40 wouldn't be worth it to you, I'm assuming you have kids,or are done with having kids, and you can fully recover from this cycle with clomid, and a great AI, Also have you considered going on TRT? At 40 it could be very beneficial to you.

    I would run the following,

    1-12 Test CYP 500mg/wl
    1-4 Dbol 40mg/ed
    1-12 Adex .5mg eod or Aromasin 25mg/ed

    PCT

    14 100mg Clomid/ 25mg Aromasin
    15 75mg Clomid / 25mg Aromasin
    16 75mg Clomid / 25mg Aromasin
    17 50mg Clomid / 12.5mg Aromasin
    18 50mg Clomid / 12.5mg Aromasin


    This will recover you just fine, even at age 40. But again look into trt, and for a better PCT experience use a type 1 AI as while you are on PCT the increase of LH and FH will dramatically increase estrogen, hence why many people feel so emotional on clomid. Aromasin fixes that issue.

    Good luck brother.

  14. #14
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    Again, thanks. I will try my best to follow your suggestion.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolLifter View Post
    As for you diet to lose bf while increasing muscle you need the following

    Workout days - 3214 total cals
    240g Protien - 960cals
    394-395g Carbs - 1577 give or take depending on what you consume
    75g Fats - 677 cals

    Non workout days - 2487 total cals
    240g Protien - 960 cals
    114g Carbs - 451 cals
    118g Fats - 1068 cals


    Workout days, items like Rice, Pasta, Potatoes should fuel your carb intake, along side incidental fats you get from the meat you eat, like fish, lean meats, chicken, and nuts.
    Non workout days - avoid starches, you will get your carb intake from greens.

    Without going into to much detail into this diet, this will allow you to have the energy you need on workout days, as well as the protein, but then carbs will drop and fat will rise on rest days, all the while the protein stays the same, creating an environment in your body that will not only help you lose fat, but gain muscle at the same time.

    Again I do not know your workout routine, or what you do, these are just estimates on what Ive seen from your intitial post and age into consideration. No need to follow it to a T but rather a general reference as I do not have every variable that can come into play.

    Again good luck to you.

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    I have a question about regarding injection. I injected 250mg test cyp on Tuesday into right quad as suggested and I feel pain in that area.
    I am assuming this is normal and wonder how long it will last? Is it OK to do leg workouts, squats, leg extensions and romanian deadlift?
    I am going to inject another 250mg in my left quad on Friday so I just want to make sure it is safe to do leg workouts.

    Thanks,

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    Quote Originally Posted by tokijava View Post
    I have a question about regarding injection. I injected 250mg test cyp on Tuesday into right quad as suggested and I feel pain in that area.
    I am assuming this is normal and wonder how long it will last? Is it OK to do leg workouts, squats, leg extensions and romanian deadlift?
    I am going to inject another 250mg in my left quad on Friday so I just want to make sure it is safe to do leg workouts.

    Thanks,
    It's fine to workout the same muscle you pinned. Because that muscle hasn't adjusted yet to the hormone expect some soreness in the beginning. But that will subside over time, unless it's just painful gear. What brand are you running, sorry if I missed that.

    But your good to go for your leg workout.

    Good luck to you, let me or the board know if you need any further assistance.

    Side note I have the most success with quad pins when I sit the distance from my hip to my knee, then go about 4 inches towards the outer leg and inject there.

    Also look up ventro glute as that is an easy place to pin, very little nerves. And you can put very big volumes of oil in that spot.

    OSL

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    I got pre designed stack called beginners bulk from Naps and they are made by Geneza Pharma.

    It appears that I jabbed into the area you described outer thigh. So if I inject into left quad tomorrow, I suppose I will feel the pain again for 2 to 3 days as the muscle get used to hormones? The pain doesn't bother me much but it is just annoying.

    I checked out the ventro glute but it is a bit hard to locate the area. I maybe inject in the buttocks and can I use 1 inch needle that I used for quad or do I have to use 1 1/2 inch needle? Also can I use 21 gauge?

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolLifter View Post
    It's fine to workout the same muscle you pinned. Because that muscle hasn't adjusted yet to the hormone expect some soreness in the beginning. But that will subside over time, unless it's just painful gear. What brand are you running, sorry if I missed that.

    But your good to go for your leg workout.

    Good luck to you, let me or the board know if you need any further assistance.

    Side note I have the most success with quad pins when I sit the distance from my hip to my knee, then go about 4 inches towards the outer leg and inject there.

    Also look up ventro glute as that is an easy place to pin, very little nerves. And you can put very big volumes of oil in that spot.

    OSL

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by tokijava View Post
    I got pre designed stack called beginners bulk from Naps and they are made by Geneza Pharma.

    It appears that I jabbed into the area you described outer thigh. So if I inject into left quad tomorrow, I suppose I will feel the pain again for 2 to 3 days as the muscle get used to hormones? The pain doesn't bother me much but it is just annoying.

    I checked out the ventro glute but it is a bit hard to locate the area. I maybe inject in the buttocks and can I use 1 inch needle that I used for quad or do I have to use 1 1/2 inch needle? Also can I use 21 gauge?
    1 inch pretty much is good for anywhere unless your bf is very high, yes you can pin your left quad, but try other areas. Delts are easy, and you can out 2 - 3ml there depending on the size of your delts.

    Vento is simple lean from side to side with your hand near your upper thigh and hip, you will feel a muscle flex as you lean, that is were you pin. Its essentially a hip shot. Nerve-wracking at first but once you do it once it gets simple.

    Gp is good gear, but in my experience it does have some bite. So hopefully that is not the case, and your muscles are just getting used to the hormone.

    21 gauge is big to be pinning bro. Use the 21g is great to draw oil with, but a 25g is perfect for just about everything.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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    Get blood work before you even plan this out. At 40 you might want to consider blast and cruising anyways.

    Get your test levels checked immediately and post results. We 'll go from there.

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    Thanks, I used 18 gauge for drawing and 1 inch - 23 gauge for Tuesday injection. I am not sure if the size would cause more pain.
    I am thinking of jabbing on the butt on Friday using 1 inch 23 gauge.

    Again thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolLifter View Post
    1 inch pretty much is good for anywhere unless your bf is very high, yes you can pin your left quad, but try other areas. Delts are easy, and you can out 2 - 3ml there depending on the size of your delts.

    Vento is simple lean from side to side with your hand near your upper thigh and hip, you will feel a muscle flex as you lean, that is were you pin. Its essentially a hip shot. Nerve-wracking at first but once you do it once it gets simple.

    Gp is good gear, but in my experience it does have some bite. So hopefully that is not the case, and your muscles are just getting used to the hormone.

    21 gauge is big to be pinning bro. Use the 21g is great to draw oil with, but a 25g is perfect for just about everything.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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    I did blood work before starting my first cycle and below are results.

    Test - 576
    LH - 6.1
    FSH - 2.5

    Thanks,

    Quote Originally Posted by hoyle21 View Post
    Get blood work before you even plan this out. At 40 you might want to consider blast and cruising anyways.

    Get your test levels checked immediately and post results. We 'll go from there.

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    Wow great test levels for 40!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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    I thought it was on the lower end since the range was 348 - 1197

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolLifter View Post
    Wow great test levels for 40!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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    I have been take dbols for 5 days now (30mg/ed) and I experience the following soon after taking them.
    The symptoms are not severe but nonetheless I don't like it.

    fatigue
    lightheaded
    a little soreness in knee and elbow areas

    Are these symptoms expected?

    I read in the forum that people can feel kicking in after several days after taking diols, what feelings are they?
    i hope it is not the symptoms I described above.

    Thanks,

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    Quote Originally Posted by tokijava View Post
    I have been take dbols for 5 days now (30mg/ed) and I experience the following soon after taking them.
    The symptoms are not severe but nonetheless I don't like it.

    fatigue
    lightheaded
    a little soreness in knee and elbow areas

    Are these symptoms expected?

    I read in the forum that people can feel kicking in after several days after taking diols, what feelings are they?
    i hope it is not the symptoms I described above.

    Thanks,
    Check your bp.....unless you fell down taking the dbol..I have no idea what is causing the sore knee/elbow issue..
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    Sorry I should say body ache and headache.

    I just checked my BP and 138/90. it is definitely high for me as I am normally around 110-120/69-80.

    What can I do to lower BP and elevate some aches?

    Thanks,

    Quote Originally Posted by s2h View Post
    Check your bp.....unless you fell down taking the dbol..I have no idea what is causing the sore knee/elbow issue..

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolLifter View Post
    Nice cycle layout, it is a great cycle for a beginner, and will yield nice gains.

    Since you do want to PCT clomid is far superior are restoring LH and FH levels than nolva, Keep the nolva on hand in case of a gyno flare up ei sensitive nips, or if any lumps may form under your nipple areas. Also if you can get your hands on aromasin, at least for PCT because it is a type 1 AI, it lowers estrogen production, by attaching to thee aromatase enzyme and destroying it like a suicide bomber, hence why its a suicidal inhibitor. arimidex is a type 2 AI, this mean it blocks estrogen by attaching to the aromatase enzyme, allowing it not to convert how ever, since the enzyme is never destroyed, once the use of adex is discontinued, if not tapered off can cause estro rebound, which is not a fun experience.

    HCG in my opinion at 40 wouldn't be worth it to you, I'm assuming you have kids,or are done with having kids, and you can fully recover from this cycle with clomid, and a great AI, Also have you considered going on TRT? At 40 it could be very beneficial to you.

    I would run the following,

    1-12 Test CYP 500mg/wl
    1-4 Dbol 40mg/ed
    1-12 Adex .5mg eod or Aromasin 25mg/ed

    PCT

    14 100mg Clomid/ 25mg Aromasin
    15 75mg Clomid / 25mg Aromasin
    16 75mg Clomid / 25mg Aromasin
    17 50mg Clomid / 12.5mg Aromasin
    18 50mg Clomid / 12.5mg Aromasin


    This will recover you just fine, even at age 40. But again look into trt, and for a better PCT experience use a type 1 AI as while you are on PCT the increase of LH and FH will dramatically increase estrogen, hence why many people feel so emotional on clomid. Aromasin fixes that issue.

    Good luck brother.
    UPDATE:

    I am now in the week 4 of my cycle and it has been great. I followed the cycle above and have gained 8 pounds. I have been on 2,500 calories and about 190 grams of protein, mostly from food sources. I drink about 2 protein shakes a day to supplement. Should I been eat more and gained more? I don't think I can eat more than what I am eating now.

    I have taken 0.5mg of adex eod to control estrogen. I don't have high blood pressure or don't feel bloat, no high estrogen sides.
    Although it appears that my nipples have gotten bigger no itchness or lump around the nipple. Is this normal or early stage of gyno?

    Regards to the PCT plan using clomid and aromasin above, I have some questions.
    1. Should I wait a week or two weeks after last pin of Test C?
    2. After last pin of Test C, how to control estrogen rebound before beginning of the PCT if any?
    3. If I want to use HCG, would it be too late? it appears that the size of my balls the same before the cycle.

    Finally, I am thinking of getting a blood test in a week or two and what do I need to pay attention to? I have gotten a blood test prior to the cycle.

    Again, I would like to express my appreciation to you all for helping me out on this...
    Hopefully one day I can do the same to other newbies.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokijava View Post
    UPDATE:

    I am now in the week 4 of my cycle and it has been great. I followed the cycle above and have gained 8 pounds. I have been on 2,500 calories and about 190 grams of protein, mostly from food sources. I drink about 2 protein shakes a day to supplement. Should I been eat more and gained more? I don't think I can eat more than what I am eating now.

    Try and east more brother, 4 weeks of dbol should have put more than 8 lbs on you. Try to atleast increase your protein.

    I have taken 0.5mg of adex eod to control estrogen. I don't have high blood pressure or don't feel bloat, no high estrogen sides.
    Although it appears that my nipples have gotten bigger no itchness or lump around the nipple. Is this normal or early stage of gyno?

    .5mg Of edex EOD is perfect, the nips from time to time will get puffy then subside, but as long as no lumps, tenderness or itching occurs you should be fine.

    Regards to the PCT plan using clomid and aromasin above, I have some questions.
    1. Should I wait a week or two weeks after last pin of Test C? YES, Week 14 2 weeks after last injection.
    2. After last pin of Test C, how to control estrogen rebound before beginning of the PCT if any? If you cant get Aromasin, then continue dosing your adex @.5mg/ed for the first 2 weeks of PCT, then to .5 eod, then to .5 e3d and slowly taper off as you end pct.
    3. If I want to use HCG, would it be too late? it appears that the size of my balls the same before the cycle. No, it is not to late, 500iu 2 times weekly will stimulate lh and fsh, and bring back any lost size.

    Finally, I am thinking of getting a blood test in a week or two and what do I need to pay attention to? I have gotten a blood test prior to the cycle. Look at E2, Free Test, Test Serum, Lipid Profile Good and bad cholesterol, among others, but these are good indicators.

    Again, I would like to express my appreciation to you all for helping me out on this...
    Hopefully one day I can do the same to other newbies.

    Answers in Red Above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchoolLifter View Post
    Answers in Red Above.
    Thanks Oldschool and follow up questions.

    So I should wait 2 weeks after the last pin, then PCT starts in Week 15?

    While waiting for Test to clear during week 13 & 14, how much Aromasin should I take to control estrogen and throughout the PCT? I am getting some Aromasin for PCT as you laid out.

    For HCG, when and how long should I take?

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    I am in the 6th week of the following cycle and I am scheduled for a blood test on Saturday 8/31. However, I pin Mon and Fri so I am not sure if it is a good idea a day after pin.
    If not, then when would be a good day to get a blood test?

    1-12 Test CYP 500mg/wl
    1-4 Dbol 40mg/ed
    1-12 Adex .5mg eod

    Thanks

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