Pct blues

[Mr Persistent]

Basically into week 3 of pct and libido is not really there atall my cycle was long blast and cruised, Using tren for 2 cycles.

no problem getting wood just not interested in sex. Pissing my girlfriend off big time! And straining the relationship! I know I got. While to go before my hormones level out but in the meen time anything that could help? Peptides supplements ect?...

 

[Swfl]

If you can get wood just pretend. I know easier said than done. I have never seen anything that increases interest in males only erection frequency and response times. are you still on an AI? that may help and what are you doing for your pct?

 

[OldSchoolLifter]

If you can get wood just pretend. I know easier said than done. I have never seen anything that increases interest in males only erection frequency and response times. are you still on an AI? that may help and what are you doing for your pct?

This, What does your current PCT and AI look like?

 

[bdad]

Proviron

 

[D-Lats]

Pro irons a steroid it shuts you down

 

[bdad]

Abstract refuting that Proviron is not highly suppressive


Here is the study I was referring to. Only 85 men out of 250 showed any suppression. Proviron did not shut down the HPTA in any of the subjects and that was at 150mg for 1 year. I would say its pretty safe and has very little effect on one's HPTA


This study shows no effect on normal LH and FSH with 100-150mg/ d mesterolone, and decrease of FSH/LH that were elevated.
Proviron doesn't substitute clomid as hpta therapy, but doesn't get in the way, either.
The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.


Varma TR, Patel RH.


Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.


Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.


PMID: 2892728 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


One more...
Effect of non aromatizable androgens on LHRH and TRH responses in primary testicular failure.


Spitz IM, Margalioth EJ, Yeger Y, Livshin Y, Zylber-Haran E, Shilo S.


We have assessed the gonadotropin, TSH and PRL responses to the non aromatizable androgens, mesterolone and fluoxymestrone, in 27 patients with primary testicular failure. All patients were given a bolus of LHRH (100 micrograms) and TRH (200 micrograms) at zero time. Nine subjects received a further bolus of TRH at 30 mins. The latter were then given mesterolone 150 mg daily for 6 weeks. The remaining subjects received fluoxymesterone 5 mg daily for 4 weeks and 10 mg daily for 2 weeks. On the last day of the androgen administration, the subjects were re-challenged with LHRH and TRH according to the identical protocol. When compared to controls, the patients had normal circulating levels of testosterone, estradiol, PRL and thyroid hormones. However, basal LH, FSH and TSH levels, as well as gonadotropin responses to LHRH and TSH and PRL responses to TRH, were increased.






Mesterolone administration produced no changes in steroids, thyroid hormones, gonadotropins nor PRL.








There was, however, a reduction in the integrated and incremental TSH secretion after TRH.
Fluoxymesterone administration was accompanied by a reduction in thyroid binding globulin (with associated decreases in T3 and increases in T3 resin uptake). The free T4 index was unaltered, which implies that thyroid function was unchanged.

 

[Mr Persistent]

This, What does your current PCT and AI look like?

I ran 7000iu of hcg after the test (1000iu ed for 7 days) and ran a standard nolva protocol 40mg for 2 week now I'm on 20mg a day.. My testicles were atrophied the hole cycle and was almost asif my nut sac itself was smaller whilse I was atrophied lol... But yeah my testies are feeling huge again and they swinging low! Haha getting blood work next month to see whys what but my balls are defiantly back! There huge I can take a pic if you want!!

Pro irons a steroid it shuts you down

yeah I agree here! Common sense tell you this is a bad idea.

 

[Mr Persistent]

Regardless of how "mildly" proviron might be suppressive it's still suppressive which tells me it's a bad idea bro I'm not flaming you just going on my own knowledge of proviron.

 

[bdad]

Regardless of how "mildly" proviron might be suppressive it's still suppressive which tells me it's a bad idea bro I'm not flaming you just going on my own knowledge of proviron.[/QUO


There is a vast amount of research that supports both both theories of thought, guess to really see would require trying it, then getting bloods to see for 100% certainty. Also I dont use it every day during pct just from time to time to help with libido.

 

[OldSchoolLifter]

Clomid is far more superior in restoring LH and FH levels rather then Nolva, but it sounds like you are experiencing some estro rebound.

Stop the Proviron, Continue on with your Nolva, Even though id rather see you using clomid. Increase your Aromasin to 25mg/ed or adex .5mg eod ( if your not running an ai start one now )

And before you know it you will be feeling better.

Essentially if you have some clomid or can get some quick I would do the bellow once I had clomid in hand.

75/50/50/50 Clomid
25/25/12.5/12.5 Aromasin

Again proviron, while mild, it is a suppressor, yes it does free up circulating test, yes it does in some ways act like an AI in terms of keeping water weight in check, but in no way does it increase your LH and FH it will only slow your recovery down.

Using it on cycle however is very heavenly, as it will nearly ensure the compunds your taking are being absorbed and used to their fullest potential.


Edit - To the OP ignore my rant on Proviron, as you were not the one using it on PCT.

 

[LINK0435]

Im trying to figure out this before I get there all things point to clomid my buddy says its the way to go and everyone I have talked to so far

 

[Mr Persistent]

Regardless of how "mildly" proviron might be suppressive it's still suppressive which tells me it's a bad idea bro I'm not flaming you just going on my own knowledge of proviron.[/QUO


There is a vast amount of research that supports both both theories of thought, guess to really see would require trying it, then getting bloods to see for 100% certainty. Also I dont use it every day during pct just from time to time to help with libido.

yeah it's all trail and error il give the proviron a miss tho..

Clomid is far more superior in restoring LH and FH levels rather then Nolva, but it sounds like you are experiencing some estro rebound.

Stop the Proviron, Continue on with your Nolva, Even though id rather see you using clomid. Increase your Aromasin to 25mg/ed or adex .5mg eod ( if your not running an ai start one now )

And before you know it you will be feeling better.

Essentially if you have some clomid or can get some quick I would do the bellow once I had clomid in hand.

75/50/50/50 Clomid
25/25/12.5/12.5 Aromasin

Again proviron, while mild, it is a suppressor, yes it does free up circulating test, yes it does in some ways act like an AI in terms of keeping water weight in check, but in no way does it increase your LH and FH it will only slow your recovery down.

Using it on cycle however is very heavenly, as it will nearly ensure the compunds your taking are being absorbed and used to their fullest potential.


Edit - To the OP ignore my rant on Proviron, as you were not the one using it on PCT.

Im not using ai? Should I be? I feel depressed almost right now coming off and just a miserable bastard in general lol going from Bering on tren and feeling like a walking erection having sex upto 5+times a day.. To having sex once every other day the scary thing is it doesn't bother me!

I just can't run clomid tho I hate it! Makes me feel terrible!

I will have bloods done in 2-3 weeks and il see we're I am and take it from there. Just got to ride it out!!

Im trying to figure out this before I get there all things point to clomid my buddy says its the way to go and everyone I have talked to so far

Clomid is the devil

 

[OldSchoolLifter]

yeah it's all trail and error il give the proviron a miss tho..




Im not using ai? Should I be? I feel depressed almost right now coming off and just a miserable bastard in general lol going from Bering on tren and feeling like a walking erection having sex upto 5+times a day.. To having sex once every other day the scary thing is it doesn't bother me!

I just can't run clomid tho I hate it! Makes me feel terrible!

I will have bloods done in 2-3 weeks and il see we're I am and take it from there. Just got to ride it out!!



Clomid is the devil

YES! I would bet money the reason why you are feeling so crappy, and why you dislike clomid so much is because you are not on an Ai during pct. You have all the classic symptoms of Estro rebound, or just plain high estrogen.

Running aromasin at 25mg ed should really start making you feel better.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mr Persistent]

YES! I would bet money the reason why you are feeling so crappy, and why you dislike clomid so much is because you are not on an Ai during pct. You have all the classic symptoms of Estro rebound, or just plain high estrogen.

Running aromasin at 25mg ed should really start making you feel better.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

thanks bro would atomidex be ok? And when do i stop taking the ai? I had bloods done last month when on cycle and my estro was high! And test was low that was on cycle my prolactin was through the roof aswell! I can give you numbers of test if you want?