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PCT Timing.... does it matter?

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    PCT Timing.... does it matter?

    Okay now I am sure this subject gets beat to death. We all know propper PCT is a must, no argument there. And I think we can all agree there is a million different ways to skin that cat. What I am looking for is information for myself (and others) about something I believe gets over looked.

    Now we all know that different esters have certain approximate half lives associated with it. Lets take a look at the enanthate ester for example. Now I have seen the half-life range 7-11 days, but lets just say 7 days to make this question a little bit easier. Now me being a relative newbie to steroid cycling I only know as much as I have read on the internet and in books so go easy if I am missing something. Typicaly when you read somebody post about how to do a propper PCT they will generaly say you start PCT x days after the last pin (REGARDLESS OF THE DOSE TAKEN) depending on the ester. So you will see somebody post something like start PCT 3 days after last pin of ace or 7 days after last pin of enanthate. Okay well that makes sense I guess right? Wait about 1 half-life then start PCT right?? I have also read many times that you WAIT to start at PCT till the levels of hormones in your blood approach the natural level so that recover can actually begin as the suppressive hormones are now almost negligible, but if you think about it it will not be the same 3 days or 7 days for every dose. Does anybody disagree with this information? It seems to be a bit of a contradiction IMO.

    This is were I want to know more information and opinions. Okay so how exactly can I start recovery at the same time as my buddy if I am taking twice the dose as him? Shouldn't I wait an extra half-life to reach the same blood concentration levels as him? In other words does the actual dose of steroids matter to PCT timing? I have read that about 100mg or test is roughly equal to the average amount of natural testosterone that a man has in his blood. Now this raises another question in my mind. If I wait enough half-lives till the endogenous test is low enough to be near my natural levels then what about the other compounds I am taking. What if after all the half-lives I waited I have the equivalent of 100mg of test AND 100mg of tren still in my system? Supposedly that 100mg of test is equal to my natural levels, but that tren will still be quite suppressive. I ask these questions because there are online calculators that take dose into account, but they do not always seem to take the number of compounds into account and they do not tell me what amount of homrones they wait for to start PCT. I realize at this point I might be splitting hairs, but I want to know what you all think. What all should I take into account to time my PCT correctly?

    I dont mean to add another question to this mix, but it seems pretty relevant. When working with longer esters like enanthate would there be anything wrong with taking an oral (like tbol) after my last pin of enanthate? My reasoning would be I could taper my tbol dose up slowly while I allow the enanthate levels to drop slowly and keep me from crashing. Then when the enantathe levels get low enough to start recovery (according to one of the online calculators) I could drop the tbol and go right into the PCT a day or two later? It seems like a common enough practice to kick start a cycle with orals so would I be out in left field thinking I could use an oral to wait till my blood level clear instead of (or in addition to) waiting for blood levels to build up? Similar concept right?

    Now to clear this up as well as give us some numbers to actually discuss this is what I plan to do if I implement the idea of timing my PCT out rather than going with the "cookie cutter 7 days after last pin" style. I am not neccisarily looking for cycle advice, but if you have some feel free to blow me up.

    week 1 (front load)
    test e 750mg/week
    tren e 1200mg/week
    mast e/p 1200mg/week

    week 2-8
    test e 250mg/week
    tren e 400mg/week
    mast e/p 400mg/week

    week 9-12.5
    tbol 10-40mg/day

    week 11-12.5 (10 days imediately proir to pct)
    hcg 500iu/day

    week 12.5 PCT
    clomid 50/50/50/50
    nolva 20/20/10/10/10/10

    Obviously I will run caber and AI as needed with bloods to make sure. I will have plenty on hand. According to one of the calculators I found it said that it would take about 4.5 weeks for hormone levels to drop to about 50mg test, 100mg tren, and 100mg mast (not taking into account the mast is 150mg/ml enanthate and 50mg/ml propinate but that is probably negligable). Hence waiting till week 12.5 to stop the tbol (maybe a few days early to let the tbol clear) and start PCT. What do you guys think?

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    Interesting ideas and questions. First I think you need to find out whether your body recognizes exogeneous test vs endogeneous . If it can it doesnt matter what your test levels are its going to realize theres an outside source . Also I think 7 days is too soon to start PCT after a run with Test E , or did I miss read you on that. Youd want to wait somewhere around 12-14 days. Id also adjust that clomid dose to 100mg a day for the first 2 weeks, and take your nolva at 40/40/20/20 . A little Aromasin like 6.25 EOD for 7-10 days would probably be nice for the first week or so depending on what AI you are running during cycle.
    I just heard about HMG and want to research that more too, you might want to look it up in the mean time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoviceAAS View Post
    First I think you need to find out whether your body recognizes exogeneous test vs endogeneous
    I am almost 1000% sure it cannot tell the difference between exogeneous and endogeneous, but i could be wrong.


    Quote Originally Posted by NoviceAAS View Post
    Youd want to wait somewhere around 12-14 days.
    Not exactly. I am saying that it might be beneficial to wait about 4.5 weeks in this case (depending on the dose shorter for less longer for more uk). That is the number that the calculator spit out when I put in the doses I want to run.


    I think I will need the caber, but the mast might cover the estrogen, otherwise I will have aromasin adex and letro on hand. I will start with the adex during the cycle as it is the "weakest". I am thinking about a low dose of aromasin during the hcg to keep that test from aromatizing to give the nolva/clomid a leg up in the estro battle. Also thanks for the imput with nolva/clomid doses.

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    It sounds to me that you are trying to PCT with out having your test levels crash. And as far as I know that is not going to happen. Lots of people have run orals at the end of a cycle but sooner or later your going to come off completely and before your body starts signalling natural test production your test level is going to have to drop.

    Unless you monitoring you blood work daily what your trying to achieve can not be done with a roid calulator. That is a guide to where you would be but I would not assume it to be 100% accurate. everyone is different.

    You're over complicating something simple... just do what ever protocol you subscribe to and I'm sure you'll be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    Unless you monitoring you blood work daily what your trying to achieve can not be done with a roid calulator. That is a guide to where you would be but I would not assume it to be 100% accurate. everyone is different.

    You're over complicating something simple... just do what ever protocol you subscribe to and I'm sure you'll be fine.
    I understand it is just a general guide and many variables play in such as body fat, body weight, metabolism, genetics, bla bla bla. I am not trying to zero it in to the minute it just realized that many protocols call for 1 maybe 2 weeks for a longer ester where as this calculator (and simple math) says that it will take at least twice as long for a dose such as mine to clear. When trying to get my nuts started back up I would like to get it a little bit more precise than a 100% margin of error. I guess I am trying to establish some guidelines for myself because many preach to wait till your hormone levels get back to normal, but they do not calculate it what so ever they just go with the ester's half-life.

    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    It sounds to me that you are trying to PCT with out having your test levels crash.
    This was more of a side question. My thought process was to keep my overall hormone levels relatively stable and then have them drop off when I drop the oral. They will drop untill my nuts start up again yes, but rather than having it crash for a couple weeks it will be just a few days. In other words better for keeping gains and suppressing sides and mood swings.

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    Again your over complicating something pretty simple and the reason why there are so many PCT protocols out there is because its not exact. For instance your trying to calculate your test levels with based on the half life of the drug to tell you when you should start taking clomid. but have you taken into account how long it takes for clomid to start working? Does any one even know how long it takes Clomid to to have an affect on your HTPA? I would think it would be different for everyone.

    just do the pct you out lined you'll be fine.

    Or PM Heavyiron and he might be able to give you some science to help you figure out More of the variables your missing to do what you want to do. or just better advice........ He is smarter than I.
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    Right on. Thanks brother!

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