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    kidneys help!






    right guys is there any supps good for your kidneys?

    iv been on accutane 40mg for nearly 3 months now works great im clear just scars left doc wants me to go to 80mg now for the next 3 months!

    anyway i was cruising on test e for up untill now with no problem then iv just started back on cycle after 5 month cruise and im running the test e deca and eq fairly high dose.

    second pin i took was in the morning a few says ago 1ml of each compound i got what felt like tren cough put it down to must of pricked a vein or something but.. later that day i didnt feel great rather lethargic and no energy so i gave gym a miss... had night sweats that night ha woke up kidney was sore...

    been to train back yesterday and could feel it still sore.. still sore this morning now and im fucking so pissed off i know the accutane and the gear must be the cause im so pissed is there any thing that can help??
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    How's your creatanine clearance and GFR?

    Cordyceps and grape seed extract may help you.
    CEM Products materials are intended for research purposes only, not for human consumption.

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    dont know what creatine clearence and gfr is to be honest ?
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    Have you had labwork?
    If you have routine labs ordered by your doctor a renal function test is usually part of the test panel.
    Most docs will call for it once a year. More often if you have low GFR and high serum creatinine levels which are an indication of renal failure.
    If you haven't gotten it checked recently, I'd suggest it.
    I was just recently diagnosed with stage 3 CKD.
    There is no cure for kidney disease so do what you can now to prevent it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renal_function

    Hopefully it's nothing but I'd get it checked out.
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    GFR at 77 is rather low isn't it

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    Mine is very low (stage 3) at 44mls/min/1.73m2.

    http://www.renal.org/information-res....sIWRmSD4.dpbs

    That could be stage 1 CKD but you possible could have been dehydrated when the blood was s drawn.
    I think you should have a chat with your physician and maybe have the labwork done again.
    Creatinine comes from protein. Too much protein will damage your kidneys. Muscle wasting also increases creatinine.

    I am not a doctor.
    You can't get anything on this forum or the internet as a whole that a good substitute for an actual medical opinion.


    Your doctor will be better able to advise you than I can.

    Get in as soon as you can.
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    Most of the time the GFR is a derived value taken from the creatinine to BUN ratio. Since both of those are affected by intense exercise, hydration levels and diet, then an estimated GFR will be as well. You should have labs drawn in the am, fasting for a min of 8 hrs but drink a decent amount of water before hand. Caffeine and other drinks as well as ascorbic acid and other vit sups can alter values. Im not a MD either but i am a MLS and i have lots of experience with flagged results from patients not following instructions before labs are drawn. Hope this helps

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    And I've yet to see any study that offers definitive proof that too much protein decreases kidney function in healthy individuals. Its another of those things that keeps being repeated as fact yet remains unproven. Since few fact check these things they're taken all too often as true when usu they're dubious at best.

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    Have you checked for kidney stones? Sounds like a kidney stone to me; I had one once and it hurt like hell!!! Pain comes and goes as the stone moves through your urinary tract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    Have you checked for kidney stones? Sounds like a kidney stone to me; I had one once and it hurt like hell!!! Pain comes and goes as the stone moves through your urinary tract.

    i had something years agoi got really drunk sniffed coke on gear and went to bed popping pain killers because i was so fucked i thought it would counter out a hangover lol it hurt i didnt actually piss out any stones tho? as for the high protein can cause kidney damage were a;; fucked then il eat alotf of meat now adays espcially for my size and have shakes every day im consumking over 400g just from food somedays
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    my neighbor was a nurse and she checked my piss and it had blood in it, although u could not actuall see the blood there were traces
    Always be yourself, express yourself, have faith in yourself, do not you go out and look for a successfull personality an duplicate it


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    blood in urine can be anything from renal failure, to a uti to a stone.

    I went through kidney stones at the ripe old age of 19 and was literally pissing blood (sorry for the tmi)
    like the urine sample looked like a blood sample.

    stones have a uhhh, longer tract to clear in men than women so its gonna suck a LOT if thats what it is.

    some kidney support would be, uva ursi (pretty harsh stuff, only take short term), dandelion root caps (pretty mild, nice kidney tonic, can also eat the leaves on salad daily), unsweetened concentrated cranberry extract (tastes like ass, get caps if you can)
    good luck but definitely follow up with your DR
    nothing to mess around with.

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    oh one other thing!

    if there is pain when urinating you can pick up the orange dye tabs that is a urinary analgesic in the girly section of most pharmacies..it'll be near the yeast infection stuff in the store.
    it helps if its a uti or stones too and I don't believe will hurt anything even in renal failure but call your dr to be sure...I'm not positive about that.
    Hydrate like crazy!


    something to consider..I got a pm from a member on asf about getting a bad abscess from his gear then an ensuing uti . No, I won't say the lab (wasn't BP) because I don't know if it was correlation or causation.

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    Keep drinking plenty of water!
    Sounds simple but long term this is very important!

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    Do not increase your Accutane dose. You don't need to and your doc is an idiot for upping the script.




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    you play any physical sports or do hard labor, I took a knee in the kidney, didn't hurt at the time but later at home when I tried to goto bed it started to hurt like a mofo. Ended up in the ER on morphine, doc couldn't find anything wrong with me, till he said its consistent with a football injury

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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Do not increase your Accutane dose. You don't need to and your doc is an idiot for upping the script.
    Couldn't agree more.

    I still recommend having another blood draw to check kidney function.
    A 24 hour urine test is also good to determine renal issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimm View Post
    my neighbor was a nurse and she checked my piss and it had blood in it, although u could not actuall see the blood there were traces
    How did she check it? A urine strip test or what? If you can't see the blood then there are only a cpl ways to know either by the reagent strips or doing a microscopic and examining for RBCs. If there was trace blood via reagent strips then what were the other results? WBCs, bacteria, pH, specific gravity, protein, bilirubin etc. What is or isn't present with blood can tell if the issue is pre renal, glomerular, or post renal in nature. Just wondering if this is related to Accutane then why haven't you stopped taking it? and if so just as heavy iron said your docs an idiot for increasing the dosage. You really do need blood work and a urine analysis from a clean catch specimen to be certain. And water intake really can't be overstated. Btw i work in a hospital and for a college that trains nurses and i don't know many I'd trust to know if urine was normal or not. They send these things to the lab for a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dave 236 View Post
    How did she check it
    Just a quick taste.
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    Using Anabolic Steroids: New Study Says Watch for Kidney Damage

    By Dan Gwartney, M.D.

    Using Anabolic Steroids: New Study Says Watch for Kidney Damage

    The physiology of man evolved such that he maintains optimum health and performance in conditions that are commonly encountered. Over time, man deviated from nature as he established the ability to create shelter against the changing climate; developed trans-geographic commerce to provide a more diverse and stable food supply; and discovered substances that affect the mind and body, such as alcohol and opium.

    People in developed countries who enjoy the luxuries of personal vehicles, labor-saving devices, and calorie-laden diets suffer from an epidemic of chronic diseases. Ironically, societies that have achieved the pinnacle of progress through financial and political stability, in addition to scientific advances, appear to erode the physical health of citizens through the promotion of gluttony. Truly, it appears that moderation is the best policy.

    Bodybuilders, athletes and fitness extremists pursue not just health, but maximal performance. These individuals are often viewed as the healthiest by the [superficial] general public, but they also experience chronic injury if their training, diet or drug use becomes extreme? tendonitis is a daily experience for many; eating disorders develop; and adverse effects from performance-enhancing drug use/abuse or weight-loss products are unfortunately common.

    The most commonly-used class of drugs for sports and physique enhancement is anabolic-androgenic steroids (AAS). From junior high school on, most boys and men become familiar with the multicolor diagram showing a variety of side effects that are implied to be inevitable consequences of AAS use. Of the many organs and systems harmed or damaged by AAS, one paired set of vital organs is easily overlooked? the kidneys.

    In the poster "The Harmful Effects of Steroids," a muscular figure is shown hitting a front double biceps pose, while his multicolored innards are penetrated by lines connecting them to a litany of harm caused by AAS. The kidneys are listed with the vague comments of "kidney disease" and "kidney stones," but as they are not visible when the body is viewed from the front, there are no DayGlo-colored organs to go with the statement, not even a connecting line.

    Kidney disease and kidney stones are serious matters. The kidneys are vital organs that are taken for granted because most people do not consider their kidneys as long as they are able to urinate? able to pee, worry-free. Yet, when the kidneys begin to fail, serious consequences follow. If the kidneys fail completely, a person will die in days unless he is placed on dialysis.1 Tumors of the kidneys occur, although there is no reported increased risk of cancer in the kidneys in recreational AAS users. One rare cancer of the kidney (Wilms' tumor) has been reported in an AAS user.2

    Kidney stones arise in the tiny filtering ducts of the kidney, starting as small crystals, but grow as crystals do until they become lodged and prevent the passage of urine. As spiky, jagged masses, when these crystalline stones dislodge, pray that you are not driving? the pain is equated to the labor pains a mother goes through as she delivers a baby. On a scale of 1 to 10, the pain is often rated as a 10. There are several types and causes of kidney stones; again, no causal association is reported in the medical literature linking AAS use to kidney stones.

    AAS Use and Kidney Disease

    A possible relationship between recreational AAS use and kidney disease received recent press due to a poster presentation at the American Society of Nephrology.3,4 Pathologist Leal Herlitz, M.D. and colleagues reported their findings relating to the development and progression of a specific form of kidney disease in adult men. Their study compared two groups of men who were diagnosed as having the condition of focal segmental glomerulosclerosis (FSGS). The disorder is characterized by scarring in the cells that filter and secrete waste products into the urine, as well as retaining or reabsorbing essential biomolecules that the body does not want to waste or lose.

    FSGS is suspected when kidney function diminishes (as determined by lab tests) and protein is 'spilled' into the urine. Normally, the urine is protein free, but as the filtering units begin to fail, levels of urinary protein increase. When urine protein levels become elevated, the urine will become foamy. Final diagnosis is usually obtained through a kidney biopsy.5

    The study groups were composed of 10 men who had admitted to many years of anabolic steroid use (and other performance-enhancing drugs), and 10 men with the condition who were morbidly obese. The initial lab tests demonstrated greater strain and signs of impaired kidney function among the AAS users. Serum (blood) creatinine, the metabolic waste product generated from creatine (yes, the same molecule as the supplement) and cleared from the body by the kidneys, was markedly higher in AAS users (3.0 vs. 1.47 mg/dL? normal serum creatinine range is 0.8 to 1.4 mg/dL). As creatinine can only be secreted by the kidneys, serum concentration rises when the kidneys begin to fail. Urinary protein was also elevated to a significantly greater degree in the AAS-using group as protein 'leaked' into the urine.

    When kidney tissue obtained by biopsy was examined under the microscope, the extent of tissue damage was greater in the AAS-users as well, represented by scarring of the glomerular and tubulointerstitial fields (areas involved in filtering urine).

    Among the AAS-using men, eight were followed for an average of slightly longer than two years. All eight discontinued AAS use, reduced exercise, and were placed on drug therapy. One rapidly progressed to a dialysis-dependent condition called end stage renal disease. The others showed signs of improvement, with serum creatinine approaching the upper limit of normal, and urinary protein decreasing significantly? although it remained above the normal range seen in healthy people in several of the subjects.

    One of the AAS-using subjects became dissatisfied with his body image, claiming he would rather be dialysis-dependent than live without a muscular body. [This would almost certainly qualify the subject for body dysmorphic syndrome. For those nodding in agreement with sacrificing your kidneys to fill an XXXL shirt? trust me, you do not want to become dialysis-dependent.] He went back to using AAS again, despite a history of AAS-related damage. His serum creatinine doubled from near-normal to again being indicative of FSGS. His urinary protein, which had happily cleared down to zero, became elevated to 14 within three and one-half years. At that rate, Dr. Herlitz predicted that he (the AAS-user) could progress to end stage renal disease in another four to five years.

    This comparison suggested to Dr. Herlitz that AAS contribute to kidney damage. She proposed that in addition to supporting a greater body mass and placing greater stress on the kidneys, AAS may also have a direct toxic effect on the cells. Dr. Herlitz noted that creatinine is primarily produced in skeletal muscle, so logically a person with greater muscle mass will have elevated serum creatinine compared to a sedentary person, even if they are of similar weight. Furthermore, the higher dietary protein intake common to athletes and bodybuilders, as well as exercise-related hypertension (high blood pressure during physical exertion), can promote injury to the glomerular units of the kidney.

    Other Factors Affect Your Kidneys

    From the presentation, one might conclude that AAS are at least associated with a greater risk of kidney damage, and potentially may play both a direct and indirect role in harming that vital, paired set of organs. Further, the damage being done appears to be particularly virulent when compared to the control group used in this study, the morbidly obese (average BMI >40). However, FSGS is a non-specific finding present in a variety of conditions, and secondary to a number of known causes. The control group may or may not have been appropriately matched to the AAS-using group, as BMI cannot be used as an approximation for lean body mass, sometimes referred to as fat-free mass index.

    Other known agents or conditions that may affect kidney status were not accounted for, so far as the press reports of this study revealed. Among the many factors that are associated with this form of kidney damage (i.e., use of opiate drugs, hypertension, hepatitis B, HIV, etc.), several have been reported in AAS users.6-9 Ibuprofen (e.g., Advil) has been associated with kidney damage, but a different form than FSGS.

    Among the many drugs commonly used in conjunction with AAS, FSGS has been reported in a woman being treated for breast cancer with anastrozole.10 This drug, known by the brand name Arimidex, is often used in conjunction with AAS as it inhibits the enzyme aromatase. Using anastrozole, or related drugs, is common in AAS users wishing to self-treat or avoid estrogen-related side effects (many AAS are converted into estrogens by the enzyme aromatase). It is possible that the use of aromatase inhibitors or non-aromatizing AAS may be a significant factor in FSGS, or it may not be an issue at all. It is just too early to discern the factors related to AAS-associated kidney damage.

    What is revealed by this study is that at least one type of kidney damage (FSGS) is related to AAS use. The presence of FSGS in AAS users is not proof of the drugs' causing or worsening the disease. The concentration of the disease in such a small geographic area, among a limited population, appears to be greater than one might suspect. The news release did not clarify the period when these cases appeared. The fact that the condition was resolved, at least partially when the men ceased using AAS, supports the possible involvement of AAS in the development or progression of FSGS. Another convincing observation was the case of the gentleman who returned to AAS use after his lab tests returned to normal, only to see the condition return and worsen with continued AAS use.

    What does this report mean in terms of recreational AAS use? It should serve as a reminder that these are powerful drugs, and along with the benefits of greater strength and muscle mass, one also is exposed to the risk of any number of side effects. Few people take the time (and expense) of being screened for pre-existing conditions prior to using AAS. Few monitor the function of vital organs during and following AAS use to ensure that adverse side effects are not developing.

    In addition to liver damage, psychological/mood disorders, changes in blood lipids, etc., AAS users should consider the potential for damaging their kidneys. Those who use AAS recreationally should have their kidney function checked prior to starting a cycle (preferably before the first cycle) by measuring serum (blood) levels of BUN and creatinine, as well as urine protein, including the sensitive microalbuminuria test.

    AAS users should monitor their urine, looking for the development of foamy urine; purchasing urine dipsticks that will detect the presence of protein in the urine is even better. These urine dipsticks can be purchased online, but the use is no substitute for professional medical supervision and is no guarantee of safety.

    Individuals who use AAS never want to hear of risks, dangers, injury, etc. There are many. AAS can be used safely but not indiscriminately. Placing these drugs in the hands of untrained and risk-seeking individuals is tantamount to harm. It is the cavalier attitude of many users that supports AAS legislation and restrictions on medical professionals.

    Choosing to use AAS for performance enhancement or physique augmentation is viewed by many as a personal liberty, despite the legal disincentives. Regardless of one's philosophical stance, those choosing to use any drug, diet or technology need to do so in an informed manner. The revelation of kidney strain/damage in a representative group of AAS users needs to be considered during the decision process. Those who eventually use AAS need to be aware of the need to monitor the health and function of the kidneys, in addition to other potential risks.

    References:

    1. Hsu CY, Ordonez JD, et al. The risk of acute renal failure in patients with chronic kidney disease. Kidney Int, 2008 July;74(1):101-107.

    2. Prat J, Gray GF, et al. Wilms tumor in an adult associated with androgen abuse. JAMA, 1977 May 23;237(21):2322-3.

    3. Herlitz L, et al. "Development of FSGS following anabolic steroid use in bodybuilders." ASN, 2009; Abstract TH-PO163.

    4. Neale T. ASN: Anabolic Steroid Abuse May Damage Kidneys. Medpage Today, 2009 Oct 30. Available at http://www.medpagetoday.com/tbindex.cfm?tbid=16705, accessed November 9, 2009.

    5. Thomas DB. Focal segmental glomerulosclerosis: a morphologic diagnosis in evolution. Arch Pathol Lab Med, 2009 Feb;133(2):217-23.

    6. Wines JD Jr, Gruber AJ, et al. Nalbuphine hydrochloride dependence in anabolic steroid users. Am J Addict, 1999 Spring;8(2):161-4.

    7. Grace F, Sculthorpe N, et al. Blood pressure and rate pressure product response in males using high-dose anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS). J Sci Med Sport, 2003 Sep;6(3):307-12.

    8. Crampin AC, Lamagni TL, et al. The risk of infection with HIV and hepatitis B in individuals who inject steroids in England and Wales. Epidemiol Infect, 1998 Oct;121(2):381-6.

    9. Bolding G, Sherr L, et al. Use of anabolic steroids and associated health risks among gay men attending London gyms. Addiction, 2002 Feb;97(2):195-203.

    10. Kalender ME, Sevinc A, et al. Anastrozole-associated sclerosing glomerulonephritis in a patient with breast cancer. Oncology, 2007;73(5-6):415-8.

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    feel pretty stupid now... i had just pulled a muscle
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimm View Post
    feel pretty stupid now... i had just pulled a muscle
    Rather be stupid than failing kidneys. That is good news, dude.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paranoid Fitness View Post
    Just a quick taste.
    There was a time not so long ago when this was a standard screening method for diabetes mellitus. The doc would taste the urine to see if it had a sweet taste. Now That's dedication to your job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by heady muscle View Post
    Rather be stupid than failing kidneys. That is good news, dude.
    definatly mate im surprised i still have kidneys and liver havnt went in the last week or so totally relapsed:/
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