IronMag Research Chems


PCT or Cruise? What should I do?

Results 1 to 28 of 28
  1. #1
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,662
    Rep Points
    106134092

    PCT or Cruise? What should I do?

    I am halfway through a 10 week cycle.

    46
    6 foot
    219 (was only 204 when I started this time)

    Currently on my fourth cycle.

    I was completely off everything for 18 months before this fourth cycle, and now, halfway through my cycle, I am 219 pounds.

    Wk 1-10 600 test e
    Wk 2-9 300 NPP
    Wk 3-6 dbol 50 mg daily

    12.5 aromasin (bumped it to 25 mg for a while because of the dbol, but now back to 12.5 mg).

    No HCG being used, although I have some.

    In 6 weeks I have gone from 204 to 215. I am not sure where I will end up at 10 weeks, but my initial plan was to PCT, take 6 weeks off and then go into a cutting cycle. I have T3 and clen. Not sure yet what gear I will use yet, but I was considering test and primo. Lately, however, loving the way I feel on cycle after such a long break, I find myself daydreaming about just continuing the testosterone injections beyond the end of the cycle . . . maybe even at 300 mg a week . . .

    Anyway, should I PCT and take a break for 6 weeks or should I just inject 150 mg per week for six weeks and then launch into the cut cycle?




    (A) PCT, dude, at 46 you are way too young!

    or

    (B) Cruise, you old fart, you are going to be on TRT soon, anyway!




    And if I cruise for 6 weeks before launching back into a cycle, should it be at 150 mg or some higher number? I have to say I was rather shocked to read swiper's thread, and thought maybe I should be cruising at higher doses if I want to keep some size.




  2. #2
    Senior Member
    BOARD REP
    Dannie's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,808
    Rep Points
    85023022

    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    I am halfway through a 10 week cycle.

    46
    6 foot
    219 (was only 204 when I started this time)

    Currently on my fourth cycle.

    I was completely off everything for 18 months before this fourth cycle, and now, halfway through my cycle, I am 219 pounds.

    Wk 1-10 600 test e
    Wk 2-9 300 NPP
    Wk 3-6 dbol 50 mg daily

    12.5 aromasin (bumped it to 25 mg for a while because of the dbol, but now back to 12.5 mg).

    No HCG being used, although I have some.

    In 6 weeks I have gone from 204 to 215. I am not sure where I will end up at 10 weeks, but my initial plan was to PCT, take 6 weeks off and then go into a cutting cycle. I have T3 and clen. Not sure yet what gear I will use yet, but I was considering test and primo. Lately, however, loving the way I feel on cycle after such a long break, I find myself daydreaming about just continuing the testosterone injections beyond the end of the cycle . . . maybe even at 300 mg a week . . .

    Anyway, should I PCT and take a break for 6 weeks or should I just inject 150 mg per week for six weeks and then launch into the cut cycle?




    (A) PCT, dude, at 46 you are way too young!

    or

    (B) Cruise, you old fart, you are going to be on TRT soon, anyway!




    And if I cruise for 6 weeks before launching back into a cycle, should it be at 150 mg or some higher number? I have to say I was rather shocked to read swiper's thread, and thought maybe I should be cruising at higher doses if I want to keep some size.



    Very personal choice.
    I am far too young for TRT, but I chose to blast and cruise, however I will be taking 10-12 weeks off every year.
    At 46, provided I didn't want any more kids I would not hesitate and blast and cruise all year round.

    200-300mg/wk is pretty standard dose for cruise, bigger boys like to cruise at around 500mg... and as you mentioned there are the likes of Swiper who cruises at 2g/wk
    No longer SG representative

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Darkhrse99's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    474
    Rep Points
    23646709

    I'd cruise at 250-300mg like stated above.

  4. #4
    Registered User
    ctr10's Avatar


    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    pa
    Posts
    2,260
    Rep Points
    1218018009

    cruise

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Tre's Avatar


    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Mordor
    Posts
    229
    Rep Points
    12029138

    @ age 46, Blast & cruise; besides, you could get GH, & Test prescribed anyway for cruising; then you could blast with short esters so Doc doesn't wonder why you have a ridiculous level of hormones thickening your blood.
    -All of my posts are for entertainment purposes only, & not to be taken seriously
    -All content posted is nothing more than a comical skit, & a joke

  6. #6
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,662
    Rep Points
    106134092

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkhrse99 View Post
    I'd cruise at 250-300mg like stated above.
    For those of you who are at 250-300 cruise, are you using an AI or HCG or just 250-300 mg testosterone with nothing else during the cruise?

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    BOARD REP
    exerciseordie's Avatar


    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Everywhere
    Posts
    936
    Rep Points
    46773560

    Most people I know start at least aromasin at 250. Sone also just use proviron
    Anything said by exerciseordie is for educational purposes only! PERIOD!!!! Don't do illegal shit.

  8. #8
    VP of LIFE
    ELITE MEMBER
    sneedham's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    AMA Army
    Posts
    2,013
    Rep Points
    493965513

    I Am 43 and cruise at around 250-300.. and use ADEX at .5 mgs every third day. I should add that everyone will react different on an AI....my blood work tells me that it keeps my E2 at about 25..

    This Message Was Sent By ME!!!!!
    ?This message was sent using true power!!!

  9. #9
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    156
    Rep Points
    16865888

    Same opinion here, blast and cruise baby 250-300 mg I don't see the need on any more than that at this point of your experimental phase, swiper cruises at that amount because that's the sweet spot for him and not everybody is the same, eat big train bigger and you shouldn't lose size maintaining is the easy part. I personally don't mess with T-3 there is a lot you can accomplish with a good consistent diet, and Primo well it's the nectar of the God's.

  10. #10
    vv MINE!!
    skinnyguy180's Avatar


    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    The Flip Side
    Posts
    3,474
    Rep Points
    600615712

    ehh you have only done a ten week cycle if your going to cruise any way I vote for option "C" extend your cycle. If you want to cut just change your diet and start a cut for another ten weeks.

    Drop the NPP add the tren or mast and cut away.

    Then cruise.
    All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

  11. #11
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,662
    Rep Points
    106134092

    Quote Originally Posted by 1bbigger View Post
    and Primo well it's the nectar of the God's.
    This assumes I am not just paying more for Deca or Testosterone in a bottle labeled primo!

    Have you run it, and, if so, at what dose, and what did it do for you (subjective and objective observations)?


    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    ehh you have only done a ten week cycle if your going to cruise any way I vote for option "C" extend your cycle. If you want to cut just change your diet and start a cut for another ten weeks.

    Drop the NPP add the tren or mast and cut away.

    Then cruise.
    This is WAY more tempting than it should be.

  12. #12
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,662
    Rep Points
    106134092

    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    ehh you have only done a ten week cycle if your going to cruise any way I vote for option "C" extend your cycle. If you want to cut just change your diet and start a cut for another ten weeks.

    Drop the NPP add the tren or mast and cut away.

    Then cruise.
    What about giving the receptors a break to permit them to downregulate and all that sort of stuff?

  13. #13
    vv MINE!!
    skinnyguy180's Avatar


    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    The Flip Side
    Posts
    3,474
    Rep Points
    600615712

    Quote Originally Posted by malfeasance View Post
    What about giving the receptors a break to permit them to downregulate and all that sort of stuff?
    Well a ten week cycle is about the min cycle length. But I personally don't worry about that.
    All characters appearing in this work are fictitious. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

  14. #14
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    428
    Rep Points
    16531195

    If your gonna keep cycling at 46 and older I would personally cruise. Natural test levels decrease with age and running cycles would make it even more pronounced. Blood work is the only way to be sure, but I would venture to guess your gonna have a hard time recouperating at your age. 200 - 300 mgs of test would be fine.

  15. #15
    Uncle Z Rep
    BOARD REP
    OTG85's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Mexico
    Posts
    6,148
    Rep Points
    564197639

    Cruise your already old lol



    -All of my posts are for entertainment purposes only, & not to be taken seriously
    -All content posted is nothing more than a comical skit, & a joke

  16. #16
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,662
    Rep Points
    106134092

    Quote Originally Posted by OTG85 View Post
    Cruise your already old lol
    Hey!



    Ok, so are you guys pinning once a week or splitting it up into two?

  17. #17
    VP of LIFE
    ELITE MEMBER
    sneedham's Avatar


    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    AMA Army
    Posts
    2,013
    Rep Points
    493965513

    I prefer to pin 2x a week..imo it keeps my levels more stable.

    This Message Was Sent By ME!!!!!
    ?This message was sent using true power!!!

  18. #18
    Senior Member
    BOARD REP
    Dannie's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,808
    Rep Points
    85023022

    I like to pin a bit more frequent than once a week, I usually stick to e4d or e5d.
    No longer SG representative

  19. #19
    Registered User
    XxGetLeanxX's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    82
    Rep Points
    3004402

    You can cruise as low as 200mg per week, which is on the higher end of a TRT dose. It really depends on your goals. Are you looking to be the next Mr O, or simply look more jacked than the average gym rat? I'm on TRT at 200 per week 100 2x's per week, SubQ, and still make pretty good gains when my diet and training are in check. I also come off 1 per year to give my body a break from everything. Also...do you ever donate blood? If not, start. This will keep your RBC in the normal range, plus the other health benefits, it doesn't make sense not to.

  20. #20
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    rio
    Posts
    29
    Rep Points
    2220186

    cruising at 250 is good

  21. #21
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,662
    Rep Points
    106134092

    Quote Originally Posted by XxGetLeanxX View Post
    Are you looking to be the next Mr O, or simply look more jacked than the average gym rat?
    I am 46, so I think it is a little too late to contemplate taking a shot at the Mr.O . . . LOL! I appreciate your input, however. You say you come off once per year. For how long?

  22. #22
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,662
    Rep Points
    106134092

    Quote Originally Posted by Dannie View Post
    Very personal choice.
    I am far too young for TRT, but I chose to blast and cruise, however I will be taking 10-12 weeks off every year.
    At 46, provided I didn't want any more kids I would not hesitate and blast and cruise all year round.

    200-300mg/wk is pretty standard dose for cruise, bigger boys like to cruise at around 500mg... and as you mentioned there are the likes of Swiper who cruises at 2g/wk

    Just an update, several weeks into the cruise. I chose 300 mg a week just because I am using a 300mg/ml and it made it convenient to do .5 cc twice a week, along with 12.5 mg aromasin daily.

    It feels great! Wonderful! Twice a day with the wife! Muscles remain. Strong as an ox. Cardio is up.

    Every prior cycle I deflate like a balloon coming off.

    Cruising is cool.

  23. #23
    Senior Member
    BOARD REP
    Dannie's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,808
    Rep Points
    85023022

    I am enjoying cruising myself, however one more blast and I will be coming off... dark and difficult times lie ahead.
    No longer SG representative

  24. #24
    Moderator
    MODERATOR


    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Ihio
    Posts
    1,031
    Rep Points
    189354368

    PCT is more important for younger guys who still want kids and whose T levels are still optimal. At 46, I doubt you want more kids, care about testicle size, or have optimal T levels. Personally, I would say on TRT between cycles, especially if your T levels are still in the low/low-normal range after PCT.
    IronMagLabs 15% Discount Code: Mike15




  25. #25
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    France
    Posts
    17
    Rep Points
    10

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    PCT is more important for younger guys who still want kids and whose T levels are still optimal. At 46, I doubt you want more kids, care about testicle size, or have optimal T levels. Personally, I would say on TRT between cycles, especially if your T levels are still in the low/low-normal range after PCT.
    Mike,

    In a previous post, you spoke about testicular damages when going on TRT, because the testicles are inactive for a prolonged period of time. These permanent damages can indeed lead to permanent infertility.

    Is the use of HCG (LH mimicker), or HMG (LH and FSH) during steroids use can prevent the tests from being damaged by making them active ?

    By the way, here is two interesting studies :

    http://www.ergo-log.com/vitaminecycle.html
    http://www.ergo-log.com/vitamin-c-an...ids-cycle.html

    Can using strong antioxidants and HMG/HCG be an effective method to protect the testicles from permanent damages or do they get damaged by another pathway coming from steroids use ?

    Regards.
    Last edited by Rayzen; 05-12-2014 at 06:57 AM.

  26. #26
    Senior Member
    BOARD REP
    Dannie's Avatar


    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    1,808
    Rep Points
    85023022

    @ Mike Arnold, here is another HCG / fertility related question.

    What is your opinion on long term HCG / Clomid use? By long term I mean 10 month blast and cruise.
    I brought up Clomid, as I've heard that 25mg of Clomid each day while on cycle prevents testicular atrophy very much like HCG.
    No longer SG representative

  27. #27
    Moderator
    MODERATOR


    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Ihio
    Posts
    1,031
    Rep Points
    189354368

    Quote Originally Posted by Rayzen View Post
    Mike,

    In a previous post, you spoke about testicular damages when going on TRT, because the testicles are inactive for a prolonged period of time. These permanent damages can indeed lead to permanent infertility.
    A AAS use is unlikely to lead to permanent infertility. Long-term use may prevent a full recovery of sperm count, but even after long-term suppression, sperm count & motility can usually be recovered sufficiently to allow for pregnancy. Drugs like HCG, HMG, and Clomid are potent drugs for restoring fertility.

    Is the use of HCG (LH mimicker), or HMG (LH and FSH) during steroids use can prevent the tests from being damaged by making them active ?
    HCG will primarily maintain testosterone production, while HMG will maintain both sperm & testosterone production. However, HMG is much more expensive to use, so if test production is the goal, use HCG. If fertility is the goal, HMG is the far better drug, as it directly initiates sperm production.

    Keep in mind that these drugs do not actually help you "recover" in the traditional sense of the word, as you will technically still be supressed when using them. The word recover refers to the body's ability to sustain normal test & sperm production on its own, but this is impossible with HCG & FSH. Why? In order to experience a recovery, the pituitary must start producing LH and FSH. This can't happen when using these drugs. In fact, they actually suppress LH & FSH production. Therefore, as soon as you stop using these drugs, testosterone and/or sperm production goes right back down to nothing.

    The SERM's and AI's are what cause the pituitary to produce LH and FSH. The reason AAS users often use HCG during the first part of PCT...or during the cycle itself (preferable)...is because it will get the testicle back into/maintain a fully functioning state. This way, when you start using SERMs and/or AI's test & sperm production can revert back to normal more quickly. Basically, when used as part of a recovery plan, HCG & HMG only cause testicular recovery. They do not help the pituitary recover.


    By the way, here is two interesting studies :

    http://www.ergo-log.com/vitaminecycle.html
    http://www.ergo-log.com/vitamin-c-an...ids-cycle.html

    Can using strong antioxidants and HMG/HCG be an effective method to protect the testicles from permanent damages or do they get damaged by another pathway coming from steroids use ?
    Yes, they will help protect the testes from damage, but not the pituitary...and if the pituitary isn't able to produce LH & FSH, the testes are worthless anyway (unless you permanently stayed on HCG/HMG). Therefore, if you want a real recovery (which means you can produce test & sperm on your own), you should focus on both testicular & pituitary recovery.
    .......
    IronMagLabs 15% Discount Code: Mike15




  28. #28
    Registered User


    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    France
    Posts
    17
    Rep Points
    10

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    .......
    Thank you Mike.

    Yes, HCG & HMG are both suppresive drugs.

    So, basically, if a BBer decides to stay on AAS permanently (TRT for example) and uses HMG non-stop from the very beginning of his AAS use, he can prevent himself from having a testicular shrinkage and from becoming sterile, but he can't do anything to protect his pituitary ?

    So if this BBer wants to coming off, and thus trying to recover, it can take a very long time before his pituitary fully recovers, and starts to produce LH & FSH on its own ?

    I now better understand the arguments in favor of cycling...

    So using HMG from the beginning of its permanent AAS use is a must for any BBer who wants to stay on AAS non-stop and having kids in the future ?

Similar Threads

  1. life insurance testing: cruise or no cruise?
    By plifter198 in forum Lab Testing
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 03-16-2014, 03:56 PM
  2. Is TRT the equivalent of the cruise part of blast/cruise?
    By JustinCase in forum Testosterone Replacement Therapy
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-11-2014, 11:52 PM
  3. Going on a cruise
    By OTG85 in forum UncleZ
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-05-2012, 04:29 PM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 04-20-2012, 08:39 AM
  5. Cruise, blast, cruise...
    By Buzzard in forum Anabolic Zone
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-12-2010, 10:17 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
-->