I'm sure you'll get the feed back you're looking for from others but I find tne to be an amazing pre w/o. 100-150mg about an hour prior to lifting and you'll loose track of time in the gym because of the focus, endurance, strength and urge to press forward and smash weights. I generally inject about 30 min before I leave so I have time to get in the gym and start my warm up before it kicks in fully. But I can start to feel it in that first half hour. The tne/dbol blend is another great pre w/o.