Russia completes Crimea annexation

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    Russia completes Crimea annexation

    Thank God we have a president like Obama in this situation. With his charisma, strong leadership and negotiating skills, he will have Putin eating out of his hand. Obama drove the Russians out of Georgia in 2009 when he cautioned BOTH sides to exercise restraint, he stopped the missile defense plan in Poland in order to promote peace in Europe. I am confident that Obama will not interfere with the affairs between Russia and Ukraine as well. If North Korea decides to reunite with the south, I am also confident that he will work the new government under President Kim Jong Un to promote peace and prosperity on the Korean Peninsula as well. We are fortunate to have a strong leader like B. Hussein Obama during such turbulent times.

    http://news.yahoo.com/russia-demands...ileOut=comment

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    You do realize that the people of Crimea actually wanted to become part of Russia, right?
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    You do realize that the people of Crimea actually wanted to become part of Russia, right?
    Only 98% of Crimea wants to be part of Russia according to the vote. To hell with democracy, we gotta save face.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    You do realize that the people of Crimea actually wanted to become part of Russia, right?
    This is the most important part. Almost all Crimean people are ethnic Russians. What's happening is a Civil war / split, and Russian is simply allowing a part to join Russia.

    To have the USA president -- Obama or otherwise -- talk about how Russia shouldn't meddle in a civil war just reeks -- reeks -- of hypocrisy. Don't get me wrong, I love my country and think that, overall, it's the best on the planet, but we're being ragingly hypocritical on this matter.

    The truth is that many of the old Soviet countries have done nothing but suffer since the fall of the Soviet Union. Now, many of them are looking back fondly of that era. We're going to see more countries willingly join with Russia.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    You do realize that the people of Crimea actually wanted to become part of Russia, right?
    The switch to democracy and capitalism in a lot of eastern European country's has been less then ideal. There is a lot of divide between the generations due to the lack of economic growth. A lot of the older people feel things were better under communism.

    I think the GDP of that country is only like 4B, with a couple million people with most of that of course going to the top.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    The switch to democracy and capitalism in a lot of eastern European country's has been less then ideal. There is a lot of divide between the generations due to the lack of economic growth. A lot of the older people feel things were better under communism.

    I think the GDP of that country is only like 4B, with a couple million people with most of that of course going to the top.

    Why the Nostalgia for an Old Communist Economy?

    https://mises.org/daily/6697/Why-the...munist-Economy
    -S-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    Why the Nostalgia for an Old Communist Economy?

    https://mises.org/daily/6697/Why-the...munist-Economy
    It's not nostalgia just a fact, I've done some traveling there also. Many Eastern European country's haven't fared very well but their independence also came at a bad time as the western country's in the OECD were just starting to financialize their economy's and they have not the experience to defend themselves from economic exploitation.
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    Over 90% of the Crimeans want Crimea to become part of Russia. Why should we try to stop them? It isn't annexation, by the way. No more than it would be if a Canadian province wanted to become the 51st state of the US.
    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
    It's not nostalgia just a fact, I've done some traveling there also. Many Eastern European country's haven't fared very well but their independence also came at a bad time as the western country's in the OECD were just starting to financialize their economy's and they have not the experience to defend themselves from economic exploitation.
    So, IOW they still needed mother Russia to protect them from the evil capitalists in the west. That explains why N.Korea has faired so much better than the south since the Russians and Chinese helped liberate them from the western imperialists in 1953.

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    it was our own govt., the CIA who was behind the protests that got rid of the democratically elected president of Ukraine starting a shit storm over there. now it all backfired with Russia taking a part of Ukraine. it all can be traced back to our foreign policy of interventionism.
    -S-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    it was our own govt., the CIA who was behind the protests that got rid of the democratically elected president of Ukraine starting a shit storm over there. now it all backfired with Russia taking a part of Ukraine. it all can be traced back to our foreign policy of interventionism.

    ..Our intervention in other countries politics is the root cause, it's ok we invade Iraq, so why can't Russia invade Crimea ??? I wish we would work on rebuilding America, our schools, bridges,highways and let other countries sort it out for themselves, the only people that advantage from our interventions are the corporations & oil companies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charley View Post
    ..Our intervention in other countries politics is the root cause, it's ok we invade Iraq, so why can't Russia invade Crimea ??? I wish we would work on rebuilding America, our schools, bridges,highways and let other countries sort it out for themselves, the only people that advantage from our interventions are the corporations & oil companies.
    Russia isn't invading anyone.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DOMS View Post
    Russia isn't invading anyone.

    I should of wrote 'Russia visits Crimea'.. maybe for a weekend sleepover.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charley View Post
    I should of wrote 'Russia visits Crimea'.. maybe for a weekend sleepover.
    Or...you can go with facts and say, "Crimea chose to join Russia."

    Too obvious?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    it was our own govt., the CIA who was behind the protests that got rid of the democratically elected president of Ukraine starting a shit storm over there. now it all backfired with Russia taking a part of Ukraine. it all can be traced back to our foreign policy of interventionism.
    Cia behind protests lol,,more like putins henchhmen,,,all the events leading up to now were
    Quick and all pre planned by russia imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by malk View Post
    Cia behind protests lol,,more like putins henchhmen,,,all the events leading up to now were
    Quick and all pre planned by russia imo.
    do some research on the CIA and you'll come to that convulsion as well. it's the US who wanted the democratically elected pro Russian president out of office so we can have our own puppet to control in Ukraine.
    -S-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    do some research on the CIA and you'll come to that convulsion as well. it's the US who wanted the democratically elected pro Russian president out of office so we can have our own puppet to control in Ukraine.
    It's more complex than that.
    It's related to the history of Western Ukraine.
    The people in Western Ukraine are not ethnic Russians.
    Those were the ones that were protesting in Kiev against Ukrainian stronger ties with Russia.
    They do not identify themselves as ethnic Russians and they wanted no part of any agreement that would have created stronger ties between Ukraine and Russia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Ukraine

    Unlike the rest of Ukraine, most of Western Ukraine was never part of the Russian empire

    During elections voters of Western (and Central Ukrainian) oblasts (provinces) vote mostly for parties (Our Ukraine, Batkivshchyna)[20] and presidential candidates (Viktor Yuschenko, Yulia Tymoshenko) with a pro-Western and state reform platform.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiper View Post
    do some research on the CIA and you'll come to that convulsion as well. it's the US who wanted the democratically elected pro Russian president out of office so we can have our own puppet to control in Ukraine.
    I don't think putin wiil care too much,he will do what he pleases even if it means incursions into Ukraine,,
    the west will do nothing.

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    This is a tough one. On the one hand, it does look like a land grab with Putin ultimately wanting to rebuild the Russian empire. On the other hand, the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian and voted to secceed and unite with Russia. The US, EU, and china just don't want to see Russia having the same level of control and influence over Eastern Europe as it did during the Cold War. Therefore, theyre calling the annexation an illegal land grab. It looks like we won't know the true agenda until Russia starts moving further into the eastern part of Ukraine and possibly messing with Georgia or Estonia.

    Anyone know how to say "12 months" in Estonian?


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    [QUOTE=GearsMcGilf;3239833]
    Anyone know how to say "12 months" in Estonian?

    kaksteist kuud or 12 kuud

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    Quote Originally Posted by GearsMcGilf View Post
    This is a tough one. On the one hand, it does look like a land grab with Putin ultimately wanting to rebuild the Russian empire. On the other hand, the majority of Crimeans are ethnic Russian and voted to secceed and unite with Russia. The US, EU, and china just don't want to see Russia having the same level of control and influence over Eastern Europe as it did during the Cold War. Therefore, theyre calling the annexation an illegal land grab. It looks like we won't know the true agenda until Russia starts moving further into the eastern part of Ukraine and possibly messing with Georgia or Estonia.

    Anyone know how to say "12 months" in Estonian?

    The eastern Ukrainians want to be part of Russia, as well. Calling it a land grab or annexation is simply political rhetoric to get the easily panicked people worked up into a lather and ready to send the military over there to keep us in a perpetual state of war.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    I'm sure we'd be totally cool with upper Michigan joining Canada if they wanted to. No biggie.
    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by bio-chem View Post
    I'm sure we'd be totally cool with upper Michigan joining Canada if they wanted to. No biggie.
    If they wanted to, why not? Go to war with another country to prevent people from exercising their free will?
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Originally Posted by bio-chem
    I'm sure we'd be totally cool with upper Michigan joining Canada if they wanted to. No biggie.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    If they wanted to, why not? Go to war with another country to prevent people from exercising their free will?
    This issue was decided during the Civil War.
    620k+ Americans died.

    http://www.civilwar.org/education/ci...asualties.html

    Civil War Casualties

    The Cost of War: Killed, Wounded, Captured, and Missing


    The Civil War was America's bloodiest conflict. The unprecedented violence of battles such as Shiloh, Antietam, Stones River, and Gettysburg shocked citizens and international observers alike. Nearly as many men died in captivity during the Civil War as were killed in the whole of the Vietnam War. Hundreds of thousands died of disease. Roughly 2% of the population, an estimated 620,000 men, lost their lives in the line of duty. Taken as a percentage of today's population, the toll would have risen as high as 6 million souls.




    The Numbers Illustrated

    The human cost of the Civil War was beyond anybody's expectations. The young nation experienced bloodshed of a magnitude that has not been equaled since by any other American conflict.
    Military Deaths in American Wars


    The numbers of Civil War dead were not equaled by the combined toll of other American conflicts until the War in Vietnam. Some believe the number is as high as 850,000. The Civil War Trust does not agree with this claim.
    Civil War Battle Casualties


    New military technology combined with old-fashioned tactical doctrine to produce a scale of battle casualties unprecedented in American history.
    Civil War Service by Population


    Even with close to total conscription, the South could not match the North's numerical strength. Southerners also stood a significantly greater chance of being killed, wounded, or captured.
    Confederate Military Deaths by State


    This chart and the one below are based on research done by Provost Marshal General James Fry in 1866. His estimates for Southern states were based on Confederate muster rolls--many of which were destroyed before he began his study--and many historians have disputed the results. The estimates for Virginia, North Carolina, Alabama, South Carolina, and Arkansas have been updated to reflect more recent scholarship.
    Union Military Deaths by State


    Given the relatively complete preservation of Northern records, Fry's examination of Union deaths is far more accurate than his work in the South. Note the mortal threat that soldiers faced from disease.
    Casualties of War


    There were an estimated 1.5 million casualties reported during the Civil War.

    A "casualty" is a military person lost through death, wounds, injury, sickness, internment, capture, or through being missing in action. "Casualty" and "fatality" are not interchangeable terms--death is only one of the ways that a soldier can become a casualty. In practice, officers would usually be responsible for recording casualties that occured within their commands. If a soldier was unable to perform basic duties due to one of the above conditions, the soldier would be considered a casualty. This means that one soldier could be marked as a casualty several times throughout the course of the war.
    Most casualties and deaths in the Civil War were the result of non-combat-related disease. For every three soldiers killed in battle, five more died of disease. The primitive nature of Civil War medicine, both in its intellectual underpinnings and in its practice in the armies, meant that many wounds and illnesses were unnecessarily fatal.
    Our modern conception of casualties includes those who have been psychologically damaged by warfare. This distinction did not exist during the Civil War. Soldiers suffering from what we would now recognize as post-traumatic stress disorder were uncataloged and uncared for.
    Consequences


    The Battle of Gettysburg left approximately 7,000 corpses in the fields around the town. Family members had to come to the battlefield to find their loved ones in the carnage. (Library of Congress)

    Approximately one in four soldiers that went to war never returned home. At the outset of the war, neither army had mechanisms in place to handle the amount of death that the nation was about to experience. There were no national cemeteries, no burial details, and no messengers of loss. The largest human catastrophe in American history, the Civil War forced the young nation to confront death and destruction in a way that has not been equalled before or since.
    Last edited by Bowden; 03-23-2014 at 07:05 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    If they wanted to, why not? Go to war with another country to prevent people from exercising their free will?
    I fully see that there are and of right should be two sides regarding what the US role in dealing with Putin internationally should be. I think healthy debate is fine and should be sought out. I think it's ridiculous to think that it should be no big deal for Crimea to leave the Ukraine however. With this annexation Ukraine lost it's only sub, and 2 military bases.

    To think the US would easily give up it's territory, resources, and military assets to another country because of a vote by a few people is pretty asinine.
    Quote Originally Posted by LAM View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by bio-chem View Post
    I fully see that there are and of right should be two sides regarding what the US role in dealing with Putin internationally should be. I think healthy debate is fine and should be sought out. I think it's ridiculous to think that it should be no big deal for Crimea to leave the Ukraine however. With this annexation Ukraine lost it's only sub, and 2 military bases.

    To think the US would easily give up it's territory, resources, and military assets to another country because of a vote by a few people is pretty asinine.
    Over 90% of the Crimeans want Crimea to become part of Russia. Why should we try to stop them? It isn't annexation, by the way. No more than it would be if a Canadian province wanted to become the 51st state of the US.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaphod View Post
    Over 90% of the Crimeans want Crimea to become part of Russia. Why should we try to stop them? It isn't annexation, by the way. No more than it would be if a Canadian province wanted to become the 51st state of the US.
    That is an asinine comparison. For one thing, we really have no way of knowing if the vote was legitimate or not. After all, neither Jimmy Carter nor John Kerry were there to give it their blessing. Additionally, any province of another country would give anything to become a 51st US state if they had the opportunity. It would be liberation in such a case.
    Just look at Iraq and Afghanistan. We went over there and discovered that, deep inside every Arab mooslime, there is an American screaming to get out. They all wanted to be just like us. That's why we now have two thriving, civilized western style democracies in the region.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bio-chem View Post
    I fully see that there are and of right should be two sides regarding what the US role in dealing with Putin internationally should be. I think healthy debate is fine and should be sought out. I think it's ridiculous to think that it should be no big deal for Crimea to leave the Ukraine however. With this annexation Ukraine lost it's only sub, and 2 military bases.

    To think the US would easily give up it's territory, resources, and military assets to another country because of a vote by a few people is pretty asinine.
    Canada can have Michigan if they take Detroit.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    Canada can have Michigan if they take Detroit.
    You dumbass. Give them Detroit but keep the rest of the state. Aside from the Southeast corner, Michigan is a BEAUTIFUL state.
    Rules? You mean we have RULES for that???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry View Post
    Canada can have Michigan if they take Detroit.

    Deal but you have to take bieber as well.

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    I know how bloody the Civil War was. My point is that Crimea and Ukraine are not part of the US and if they choose to become part of Russia it's no business of ours to force our will on them simply to spite Russia and keep us in a war. As far as a US state ceding from the US, same thing, that is the will of that state or part of a state. Should the Civil War have been fought? Perhaps, perhaps not. We know the history but not all of the details that brought on a war.
    If gunners were as violent as anti-gunners believe, logically there wouldn't be any anti-gunners left.

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