Crashed e2?

[lachu543]

Hi,

300mg cypio week ( UGL )
525mg tren ace week

I take 12,5mg aromasin ( Pharma Grade ) ed. For several days i have fking symptoms like: joint pain, lack of motivation, lethargy, tiredness, dehydration. I only feel very well in the gym when i train In OFF days i feel like shit. Can i crashed my e2? How to bump it so fast? Add DBOL?

When i use Tren i can't check my e2 in lab becouse it always show false ( i mean ~700 when the range is 10-42... ).

[devildogusmc]

I'll try to understand what you're saying... Anyhow, have you considered that you may be overtraining? These are classic symptoms. And no, I wouldn't just throw in dbol to try to cure an estrogen problem. That's...well, just dont do that. My advice, come off the tren. Go to 12.5mgs aromasin every three days; Go back to a cruise dose of 200mg test cyp per week, and STOP TRAINING, rest, and eat. Stop the Aromasin all together in a week to ten days. Main problem, IMO is you've reached a state of overtraining. It only gets worse if you continue vs resting. Learn to listen to your body. Last, get a blood panel in six weeks.

[_LG_]

Drop the aromasin for afew and see what happens.

[Mccringleberry]

How old are you? What's your training look like? Any sore or itchy nipple symptoms? How about morning wood? Morning wood is a great indicator. Unless you're one of the people who get perma-boner from the tren.

Is this your first tren cycle at that dose? I know a lot of people who have had fatigue and lethargy on tren.

Aromasin will leave your system pretty quicky. I wouldn't add dbol personally. Just wait 2 days and then go back to 12.5 eod or e3d.

Another thought is that high prolactin can cause those symptoms also. Tren raises prolactin. I know you said pharma grade aromasin but if it's bunk and your e2 is high then your prolactin will be high and cause the symptoms you mentioned.

High and low e2 have many similar symptoms. I've had both and I don't care for either one.

[_LG_]

Tren raises prolactin eh? Got any evidence to back that up? Just regurgitating bro-science?

How old are you? What's your training look like? Any sore or itchy nipple symptoms? How about morning wood? Morning wood is a great indicator. Unless you're one of the people who get perma-boner from the tren.

Is this your first tren cycle at that dose? I know a lot of people who have had fatigue and lethargy on tren.

Aromasin will leave your system pretty quicky. I wouldn't add dbol personally. Just wait 2 days and then go back to 12.5 eod or e3d.

Another thought is that high prolactin can cause those symptoms also. Tren raises prolactin. I know you said pharma grade aromasin but if it's bunk and your e2 is high then your prolactin will be high and cause the symptoms you mentioned.

High and low e2 have many similar symptoms. I've had both and I don't care for either one.

[lachu543]

I'm 25 years old. Zero problem with nipples. Aromasin isn't bunk, i got out it from pharmacy... It's not my first tren cycle.

I red that rebound estro to normal level after taking Aromasin is long time becouse it's killing enzyms of estrogen...

Any more ideas?

[devildogusmc]

I'm 25 years old. Zero problem with nipples. Aromasin isn't bunk, i got out it from pharmacy... It's not my first tren cycle.

I red that rebound estro to normal level after taking Aromasin is long time becouse it's killing enzyms of estrogen...

Any more ideas?

yes, you're overtraining. It's something that can happen, and I've done it so many times over the years, I can spot it quickly. Don't beat yourself up over it. It's a very common thing to occur. I found an article that wasn't from another bodybuilding board to remain neutral. Take a look at the symptoms. You've overtrained your body:http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/overtraining/a/aa062499a.htm

[devildogusmc]

Sorry about the link. Trust me on this one. Google the word overtraining, and compare your symptoms. And btw, when you take some time out of the gym you'll be shocked at what you look like when you come back. When I go on vacations, I no longer find a gym, and at the most, I'll do some morning cardio. When I come back home to the gym, I feel great, and look it too. Best wishes

[SoCalSwole]

Tren raises prolactin eh? Got any evidence to back that up? Just regurgitating bro-science?

^^^ Not a popular belief But Im right there with you. Do your research people.

[SoCalSwole]

I don't know guys I have to disagree. Unless his diet is way too caloric low. I think its pretty much impossible to over train on good AAS. Overtraining is for natty guys. I agree with trying to drop the Aromasin. But it sounds like low E to me. I know when I'm too low joints hurt, fatigue and everything else he said.

Get a blood test to see for sure but my gut tells me hes too low on E. He could add some HCG in too bump it up a bit. Or raise the test for a week. If you go the extra test route then use prop so you can get it too bump up quick and then let it back down quick too. But get the blood test to be sure good luck.

[rambo99]

Like others mentioned, hows your libido? When I crashed my e2 my sex drive was completely diminished, morning wood was pathetic. Drop the aromasin for a few days, it took me a full 4 to get restored. Then dose the aromasin at eod or e3d and see how it goes. Since your on tren, you're right bw may give false estro readings but get one anyway to see where it stands.

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[Mccringleberry]

Tren raises prolactin eh? Got any evidence to back that up? Just regurgitating bro-science?

It's complete broscience that's perpetrated on this site and dozens of others on a google search. Type "tren prolactin" and read about it. Then look up 'Tren Lactating" and read about the 100s of guys on tren that started lactating. There are hundreds of people with raised prolactin levels from using tren. Have you not seen the number of guys using Caber, Prami and Bromo to counter prolactin? On this site and every other sites like it it's mentioned literally hundreds of times. So yes there are literally hundreds of pieces of evidence to back it up.

Now maybe you didn't have raised prolactin but personal experience has show me that it does and Caber twice a week fixed it.

[Mccringleberry]

I'm 25 years old. Zero problem with nipples. Aromasin isn't bunk, i got out it from pharmacy... It's not my first tren cycle.

I red that rebound estro to normal level after taking Aromasin is long time becouse it's killing enzyms of estrogen...

Any more ideas?

My first idea is you should learn more about aromasin and how it works in the male body. There is no rebound effect. There is rebound with a-dex.

Aromsins half life in the male body is actually very short (~9 hours) and it is quickly eliminated, however, since as soon as it enters your bloodstream it quickly destroys 80-90% of the aromatase enzymes present in your body, it is effective in maintaining significant reductions in estrogen for up to 72 hours after a single 25mg dose. Estrogen levels only begin to rise again after your body has begun to make new aromatase enzymes to replace the ones destro by exemestane.

There is a great study on the pharmacokinetics of exemestane in men which found the following:
-24 hours after one 25mg dose estrogen levels are reduced by 70-80%
-72 hours later estrogen levels are still 40% below baseline even though the drug itself is almost completely eliminated
-120 hours after initial dose estrogen levels return to baseline (without rebounding)

this means that you can find the timing and dosage that works for you, i've seen some guys recommend between 25mg ed and 12.5mg e4d, and you can see why both are effective while providing different levels of estrogen suppression, and it is this flexibility that makes aromasin such a versatile anti-e. I do 12.5 eod and occasionally e3d.

Assuming your issue is low e2 you should stop the aromasin for 3-4 days and start back at 12.5 eod.

[Mccringleberry]

I don't know guys I have to disagree. Unless his diet is way too caloric low. I think its pretty much impossible to over train on good AAS. Overtraining is for natty guys. I agree with trying to drop the Aromasin. But it sounds like low E to me. I know when I'm too low joints hurt, fatigue and everything else he said.

Get a blood test to see for sure but my gut tells me hes too low on E. He could add some HCG in too bump it up a bit. Or raise the test for a week. If you go the extra test route then use prop so you can get it too bump up quick and then let it back down quick too. But get the blood test to be sure good luck.

I agree with you. How can someone say overtraining when we don't know his routine? I got the same sides when I crashed my e2 to 7. My workouts weren't suffering at all I was just achy in my joints and lethargic.

[heckler7]

you need to do blood work and check blood pressure too, otherwise your just guessing and that could make it worse

[lachu543]

Every time when i go to check my e2 level on blood work and i'm on Tren my lab results are strange so i can't check it. You know... I'm on TRT test dose + AI and my e2 level from lab result is like 700 ( leb range 10-42... ) on Tren cycle.

I'll drop Aromasin for few days. But do i need bump Test dosage or add other compound which can bump e2 ( for example DBOL )? I think 250-300mg cypio... UGL so maybe less MGs in real... can't produce a lot of aromatase when i have low body fat %.

[devildogusmc]

Agreed, it could very well be crashed estrogen. Overtraining just comes to mind first off. And yes, I've overtrained on a gram test, Anadrol, gh, etc., but my training split at that time involved twice/day 5days/week lifting... As for crashed estrogen, oh yes, aches, pains, lack of libido, etc., and do what heckler told you. Get labs. I'd drop the tren for now, the Aromasin, and drop back to 200mg/week of test only. Just my .02. Best wishes.

[Mccringleberry]

Every time when i go to check my e2 level on blood work and i'm on Tren my lab results are strange so i can't check it. You know... I'm on TRT test dose + AI and my e2 level from lab result is like 700 ( leb range 10-42... ) on Tren cycle.

I'll drop Aromasin for few days. But do i need bump Test dosage or add other compound which can bump e2 ( for example DBOL )? I think 250-300mg cypio... UGL so maybe less MGs in real... can't produce a lot of aromatase when i have low body fat %.

I still don't think you need to but If you insist on going that route then I would use dbol because it will act very quickly as opposed to the long ester test. How much are you planning to take and do you have it on hand?

[rambo99]

I wouldnt add dbol, then you will be trying to figure out your ai dosage all over again.

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[Mccringleberry]

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't either but he seems bound and determined to add something and of the choices dbol would be the best. I still stand by just getting off the AI for 3-4 days. I've only used aromasin for the last 3 years and I know from experience that he will be back to baseline after 3-4 days.

[_LG_]

Googling stuff isn't research my friend. Try pubmed. Actual scientists and stuff.

It's complete broscience that's perpetrated on this site and dozens of others on a google search. Type "tren prolactin" and read about it. Then look up 'Tren Lactating" and read about the 100s of guys on tren that started lactating. There are hundreds of people with raised prolactin levels from using tren. Have you not seen the number of guys using Caber, Prami and Bromo to counter prolactin? On this site and every other sites like it it's mentioned literally hundreds of times. So yes there are literally hundreds of pieces of evidence to back it up.

Now maybe you didn't have raised prolactin but personal experience has show me that it does and Caber twice a week fixed it.

[Mccringleberry]

Googling stuff isn't research my friend. Try pubmed. Actual scientists and stuff.

You're one of those guys that needs to be right no mater what and I don't give a shit one way or the other. Hundreds of posts by hundreds of guys with high prolactin isn't good enough nor is my personal experience. Congrats, you won. Arguing online is like running in the special olympics - even if you win, you're still retarded

[sassy69]

From following other guys working w/ AIs, it seems apparent that it is very individual what dosing and frequency works. I'd also suggest not changing a lot of stuff at once if you're still trying to figure out what the issue is. The easiest place to start is w/ the AI rejiggering. In a couple of days of that, you may have your answer. If not then move onto the next item to adjust. Keep It Simple Stupid is an excellent rule of thumb w/ self-medication.