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  1. #1
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    Soy Protein Shakes

    My options for Whey protein are limited because I live in a foreign country with only a couple of places to get protein shakes.

    Today I went to buy Whey protein but they were sold out.

    My only viable option (a low carber) was 100% Soy Protein by a company called "On" based in the USA.

    What exactly is, soy protein?

    How different is it to Whey?

    Is it much worse than whey?


    Thanks.
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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    I would wait till whey is available and go buy some real food. Soy increases estrogen and decreases testosterone.

    Soy Protein

    Soy protein is not an effective alternative. It is high in allergens (some 28 different proteins present in soy have been found to bind to IgE antibodies). It's also worth noting that the more soy protein you eat, the more likely you are to develop allergies to it -- and the more severe those allergies are likely to become. Soy also blocks the absorption of important minerals such as calcium unless the phytates have been removed, and soy contains high levels of phytoestrogens, which although beneficial in moderate amounts, can be counter-productive in large amounts -- particularly for children.
    In addition, although its biological value is not bad at 70-80, it's net protein utilization at 61 is quite low. In fact, unless it has been fermented, soy protein contains potent enzyme inhibitors that block the action of trypsin and other enzymes needed for protein digestion. This can create significant amounts of gas, in addition to promoting pathological conditions of the pancreas, including cancer. As a side note, soy protein was once considered a waste product of the soy oil industry and used almost exclusively as cattle feed.

  3. #3
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    ^ Thanks, Ray.

    Yes, I've read in the past about the estrogen, and I recall Prince even noting "boobies." I hope he was joking.

    I did order Whey online from the company "Dynamitize." Hopefully the delivery will happen this week (they are usually late).

    Cheers.
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raysd21 View Post
    I would wait till whey is available and go buy some real food. Soy increases estrogen and decreases testosterone.
    Misinformation

    The information on soy protein is misinformation.

    Whey vs. Soy -- You've Been Tricked
    http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/soyvswhy.htm

    Soy the New Muscle Builder
    http://physicalmag.com/index.php?p=9&a=50

    Soy Vs Whey
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson71.htm

    Kenny Croxdale

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    ^ Thank you very much for this, Kenny.
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Smoothy View Post
    ^ Thank you very much for this, Kenny.

    Keep your whey... leave the soy for the vegetarians.
    I never see what has been done; I only see what remains to be done -buddha

    AY's the bees knees

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    Misinformation

    The information on soy protein is misinformation.
    Soy allergies aside. I wouldn't buy it for its bioavailability alone. Go buy your soy and enjoy the 50% waste of money....


    NOT IN MY HOUSE!!
    Protein Source
    BV
    Whey Protein Isolate Blends
    Whey Concentrate (Lactalbumin)
    Whole Egg
    Cow's Milk
    Egg White (Albumin)
    Fish
    Beef
    Chicken
    Casein (a protein from milk)
    Rice
    Soy
    Wheat
    Beans
    Peanuts
    100-159
    104
    100
    91
    88
    83
    80
    79
    77
    74
    59
    54
    49
    43

  8. #8
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    Yeah, I ordered Whey from "Dynamatize" and am waiting for the delivery.

    My problem is, it's either Soy Protein powder or no protein powder until I get my Whey Delivered.

    Is anyone familiar with this compnay called "On" out of the USA?
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    Keep your whey... leave the soy for the vegetarians.
    Whey

    Whey anabolic effect comes primarily from Leucine.

    Leucine is trips the mTOR anabolic switch that increases muscle mass.

    So yes, taking whey is a good idea.

    Soy

    "Leaving soy for the vegetarians" end up meaning you are missing out on a protein source that contributes to increasing muscle mass.

    That being said, you statement means you didn't invest the time to educate yourself on with the article that I posted and have no knowledge on this topic.

    Arginine and Glutamine

    Soy is abundant in two amino acids that that whey is weak in.

    Arginine is a precursor to Nitric Oxide. It is a major contributor to recovery and is associated with growth hormone release.

    Glutamine is vital to recovery.

    Timing

    Whey digestion time is around 120 minutes.

    Soy digestion time is approximately 180-240 minutes.

    Thus, soy pick up where whey stops in the muscle protein synthesis process.

    Muscle Protein Synthesis = Growth and Recover.

    Stacking whey with soy as well as casein provide a synergistic effect.

    Synergistic meaning the whole is greater than the sum of it parts.

    It adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.

    That a great return in any investment.

    Kenny Croxdale

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by raysd21 View Post
    Soy allergies aside. I wouldn't buy it for its bioavailability alone. Go buy your soy and enjoy the 50% waste of money....


    NOT IN MY HOUSE!!
    Protein Source
    BV
    Whey Protein Isolate Blends
    Whey Concentrate (Lactalbumin)
    Whole Egg
    Cow's Milk
    Egg White (Albumin)
    Fish
    Beef
    Chicken
    Casein (a protein from milk)
    Rice
    Soy
    Wheat
    Beans
    Peanuts
    100-159
    104
    100
    91
    88
    83
    80
    79
    77
    74
    59
    54
    49
    43
    BV Scoring

    This scoring method has some flaws in it.

    It has been replaced by the...

    Protein Digestibility Corrected Amino Acid Score, PDCAAS

    The method has demonstrated that soy being equal to whey, egg and casein proteins.

    All have a PCDASS rating of 1.0.

    Whey/Soy/Casein Stack

    As my previous post stated, combining these proteins elicits a greater effect than one alone.

    Kenny Croxdale

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    Whey

    Whey anabolic effect comes primarily from Leucine.

    Leucine is trips the mTOR anabolic switch that increases muscle mass.

    So yes, taking whey is a good idea.

    Soy

    "Leaving soy for the vegetarians" end up meaning you are missing out on a protein source that contributes to increasing muscle mass.

    That being said, you statement means you didn't invest the time to educate yourself on with the article that I posted and have no knowledge on this topic.

    Arginine and Glutamine

    Soy is abundant in two amino acids that that whey is weak in.

    Arginine is a precursor to Nitric Oxide. It is a major contributor to recovery and is associated with growth hormone release.

    Glutamine is vital to recovery.

    Timing

    Whey digestion time is around 120 minutes.

    Soy digestion time is approximately 180-240 minutes.

    Thus, soy pick up where whey stops in the muscle protein synthesis process.

    Muscle Protein Synthesis = Growth and Recover.

    Stacking whey with soy as well as casein provide a synergistic effect.

    Synergistic meaning the whole is greater than the sum of it parts.

    It adding 2 + 2 and getting 5.

    That a great return in any investment.

    Kenny Croxdale

    I read your article before I posted and yes I stand by leaving soy to the vegetarians. There is nothing in soy protein that you cant get from asparagus or post work out supplementation.. and on top of that I don't have to deal with lectins that are in the soy protein... noticed your article did not address that... so if you want to eat soy fine I don't care but the argument that stacking it with whey is superior is mute unless all you doing is eating shakes all day
    I never see what has been done; I only see what remains to be done -buddha

    AY's the bees knees

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Smoothy View Post
    Yeah, I ordered Whey from "Dynamatize" and am waiting for the delivery.

    My problem is, it's either Soy Protein powder or no protein powder until I get my Whey Delivered.

    Is anyone familiar with this compnay called "On" out of the USA?
    ON is fine it is one of a cheaper protein out of the states though. lot of people use it.
    I never see what has been done; I only see what remains to be done -buddha

    AY's the bees knees

  13. #13
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    PDCAA limitations

    Amino acids that move beyond the terminal ileum in the body are less likely to be absorbed for use in protein synthesis. They may pass out of the body, or may be absorbed by bacteria, and thus will not be present in the faeces, and will appear to have been digested. The PDCAAS takes no account of where the proteins have been digested.
    Similarly, amino acids that are lost due to antinutritional factors present in many foods are assumed to be digested according to the PDCAAS.- Note Soy is full of lectins other wise known as anti nutrients

    The PDCAAS method may also still be considered incomplete, since human diets, except in times of famine, almost never contain only one kind of protein. However, calculating the PDCAAS of a diet solely based on the PDCAAS of the individual constituents is impossible. This is because one food may provide an abundance of an amino acid that the other is missing, in which case the PDCAAS of the diet is higher than that of any one of the constituents. To arrive at the final result, all individual amino acids would have to be taken into account, though, so the PDCAAS of each constituent is largely useless.

    For example, grain protein has a PDCAAS of about 0.4 to 0.5, limited by lysine. On the other hand, it contains more than enough methionine. White bean protein (and that of many other pulses) has a PDCAAS of 0.6 to 0.7, limited by methionine, and contains more than enough lysine. When both are eaten in roughly equal quantities in a diet, the PDCAAS of the combined constituent is 1.0, because each constituent's protein is complemented by the other.

    A more extreme example would be the combination of gelatine (which contains virtually no tryptophan and thus has a PDCAAS of 0) with isolated tryptophan (which, lacking all other essential amino acids, also has a PDCAAS of 0). Despite individual scores of 0, the combination of both in adequate amounts has a positive PDCAAS, with the limiting amino acids isoleucine, threonine and methionine. Further, according to a recent 2000 study by scientist Gerjan Schaafsma, "The questions about the validity of the amino acid scoring pattern and the application of the true fecal rather than the true ileal digestibility correction as well as the truncation of PDCAAS values warrant a critical evaluation of PDCAAS in its current form as a measure of protein quality in human diets."[2] Also, the scientific community has raised critical questions about the validity of PDCAAS.[specify][7][8]

    In addition the fact that four proteins, all with different amino acid profiles, receive identical scores of 1.0 limits its usefulness as a comparative tool. Since they have different compositions, it is natural to assume that they perform differently in the human body and should have different scores. In short, this method, however, gives no distinction of their performance relative to each other because after they pass a certain point, they are all capped at 1.0 and receive an identical rating.[5][9][10]
    This is because in 1990 at a FAO/WHO meeting, it was decided that proteins having values higher than 1.0 would be rounded or "leveled down" to 1.0 as scores above 1.0 are considered to indicate the protein contains essential amino acids in excess of the human requirements.[11]
    I never see what has been done; I only see what remains to be done -buddha

    AY's the bees knees

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    PDCAA limitations
    Limited Reading

    Obviously, you didn't read the article that I posted in regard to this.

    Kenny Croxdale

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    Limited Reading

    Obviously, you didn't read the article that I posted in regard to this.

    Kenny Croxdale
    ^^Limited comprehension
    I never see what has been done; I only see what remains to be done -buddha

    AY's the bees knees

  16. #16
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    Cheers for the info on the "On" company, skinnyguy.

    Lots of info on this thread by several posters.

    *Taking my Soy Protein and waiting for my Whey.*
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    There is nothing in soy protein that you cant get from asparagus
    Asparagus

    So, you recommend asparagus.

    Nice.

    Kenny Croxdale


  18. #18
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    Well, I might as well update. I finally just plunked down $75 dollars for "On" brand "Platinum Hydro Whey".

    40 serving scoops per container with = 30 grams of protein, and 2g carbs.

    I don't want to do the math and try to figure out how much scoop is costing, but.....

    40 scoops divided by $75 USD = just under $2 per scoop, correct?

    I have no other choice as I'm in Vietnam. There was a deal on 10 lbs of Dynatmize brand whey protein for $150 USD but it was sold out.
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

  19. #19
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    There was a deal on 10 lbs of Dynatmize brand whey
    Are you trying to say Dymatize? Holy shit man you are butchering that bad. Anyway so what are the limitations for shipping to Vietnam? My go to general protein is Syntrax Matrix. 5lbs 76 servings at 23g/serving for about $44. I really don't buy into the hydro and iso stuff. If you are lactose intolerant or on a strict calorie diet go for Isolates. If not just go for a reputable whey concentrate. It's better for bulking, and cheaper. If I want a fast absorbing shake I just add maltodextrin to it. Carbs speed up the intake of protein and nutrients to your muscles. If you take it by itself it is fairly slow absorbing so it's good before bed too. Iso whey is not very efficient to take before bed. Maybe mix it with some cottage cheese to slow it down but then why not just eat cottage cheese? I don't go by the scoop either I go by the price per gram of proetin. Good luck and if you are not lactose intolerant just go with a concentrate in the future IMO.

    ON ISO = $75/ (40x30) = $.0625 per gram
    Matrix = $44/ (76x23) = $.0251 per gram

  20. #20
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    soy is not bad, but i tent to make it only maybe 10% of my protein drink ( custom mix i order) then the rest is mostly rice and whey protein

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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by raysd21 View Post
    Are you trying to say Dymatize? Holy shit man you are butchering that bad. Anyway so what are the limitations for shipping to Vietnam? My go to general protein is Syntrax Matrix. 5lbs 76 servings at 23g/serving for about $44. I really don't buy into the hydro and iso stuff. If you are lactose intolerant or on a strict calorie diet go for Isolates. If not just go for a reputable whey concentrate. It's better for bulking, and cheaper. If I want a fast absorbing shake I just add maltodextrin to it. Carbs speed up the intake of protein and nutrients to your muscles. If you take it by itself it is fairly slow absorbing so it's good before bed too. Iso whey is not very efficient to take before bed. Maybe mix it with some cottage cheese to slow it down but then why not just eat cottage cheese? I don't go by the scoop either I go by the price per gram of proetin. Good luck and if you are not lactose intolerant just go with a concentrate in the future IMO.

    ON ISO = $75/ (40x30) = $.0625 per gram
    Matrix = $44/ (76x23) = $.0251 per gram
    I mean to write "Dymatize."

    I would never order for shipping to Vietnam. Waaaay to expensive.

    I just guy what is available here.

    I am not into "hydro" or "iso" either. Not lactose intolerant.

    I bought that protein because it was the best and only available. Limited options.
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by blergs. View Post
    soy is not bad, but i tent to make it only maybe 10% of my protein drink ( custom mix i order) then the rest is mostly rice and whey protein
    blergs,

    You eat rice as a food?
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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