Is Meal Timing Complete Broscience?

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  1. #1
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    Is Meal Timing Complete Broscience?






    I've been over this time and time again on different forums, and usually "6 times a day is optimal" eating seems to be espoused anecdotally, every single time.

    Now I realize, and in my own experience, that bodybuilding contest prep dieting (<10%) is probably a completely different story. I say my own experience because I've never gone below 8% myself so I have no idea what to think, and I've always dirty bulked to get stronger, as opposed to doing the same while maintaining weight, as I have heard anecdotally some have done, although I'm not convinced.

    Is my confusion perhaps revolve around the difference between active weight loss or gain, and simple optimization of fuel availability? It seems there is a huge crossing of lines in the general discussion about what's optimal in one's diet.

    Study on weight loss: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985
    Study on fuel efficiency: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155497
    Last edited by xenomorph8472; 06-02-2014 at 07:57 AM.

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    Bro science. Most bro science either starts with supplement companies or those that learn by the "garbage in, garbage out" method.

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    Ha. Cool. Basically just eat right.

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    Eat every 2.5 to 3 hours. I don't know if it is optimal, I just know it works well for me. Keep it simple.
    Fucking Determined!

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    I do anyway....but ive done huge meals twice a day with no discernable change in body comp or energy levels or strength. Anecdotally lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenomorph8472 View Post
    I do anyway....but ive done huge meals twice a day with no discernable change in body comp or energy levels or strength. Anecdotally lol.

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    The studies confirm exactly what you have experienced.
    However there is nothing wrong with eating several times a day. I eat 4-5 meals a day because I'm HUNGRY, not because I think something magical will happen to my gains.

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    I think for the average person not on gear it is important to keep insulin levels steady and the fire burning. The whole theory is to eat small meals so you never binge basically. Plus keeping protein and aminos in your blood will help keep your body in an anabolic state. For people on gear they are "highly anabolic" anyway and in the end I think total calories matters most as long as they are quality calories. You can actually eat more if you break down the meals into smaller meals throughout the day though I think. Instead of eating that huge meal and crashing like a sack of potatoes. I think some people focus on the timing and get ocd about it way to much. Myself included. I eat every 2-3 hours.

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    Total macros are much more important than meal timing


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    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorblaze View Post
    Total macros are much more important than meal timing


    Warrior
    ^^^ this.

    Intermittent fasting ftw
    TheCaptn' is not a registered proctologist. His post are for his amusement only. Please seek proper medical advice if symptoms persist.


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    Good shit guys.....just making sure I'm not too far off the mark. Yea I typically eat 4-5 times, simply because I'm hungry. But certain things like eating too early in the morning honest to god just really fuck my day up.

    Some days I just slam down 4k+ at the pizza buffet in about an hour, gains have been steady and consistent regardless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warriorblaze View Post
    Total macros are much more important than meal timing


    Warrior
    Agreed. I just find trying to slam down 5000 cals of clean food in 1-2 meals a bit taxing when bulking, and I like to eat clean more for general health than body comp reasons.

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    Serge Nubret had some different diet habits. He would usually eat twice a day. Sometimes once a day eating 5000-6000 calories. He would challenge his "friends" in California to eating contests and never lost. He would gain 10-12 pounds sometimes in one sitting. Great genetics, steroids, and 5 hours in the gym doesn't hurt either.

    - Look at the cows they eat all the day. Now look at the panthers they eat once a day, and which one look in better shape.

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    Alot of Intermittent Fasting sites have links to legit studies that debunk the "stoking the metabolic fire" myth, and the misleading bro-science along the lines of "Your body can only absorb so much protein at once, so only eat 40 grams every 2 hours".

    The only legit reason I can see to eat that many times a day would be to avoid an enormous insulin spike followed by the blood sugar crash if you're eating a sh'load of carbs.

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    For that reason I eat all my carbs at the end of the day as a glycogen backload.... The crash helps my sleep and sets me up for an AM workout
    TheCaptn' is not a registered proctologist. His post are for his amusement only. Please seek proper medical advice if symptoms persist.


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    Quote Originally Posted by theCaptn' View Post
    For that reason I eat all my carbs at the end of the day as a glycogen backload.... The crash helps my sleep and sets me up for an AM workout
    If I ate carbs that's how I'd do it too. I do a Ketogenic diet and have a carb day every few weeks to spike my leptin. And damn it knocks me the fuck out.

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    I eat 2-3 meals a day and keep some almonds around for snacking purposes. Overall macros > timing for me - unless I eat before 6am. Thorn, I'm just ravenous all damn day for some reason.

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    Eh I hear different things and studies this, studies that. I just do overall macros and eat several meals throughout the day to stay full. Been working for me (till my diet went to shit lol)

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    If it was all just about the macros, don't you think competitors would eat this way more often? I hear it all the time on fb in the iifym group that it is all just bro-science and yada yada yada. When I had a nutrition coach, I ate certain meals at certain times, like after a workout of before. there has to be a reason behind this like glycogen levels replenished after the workout and so on. I do know when I followed my nutritionists meal program and I ate too many cheat meals I got weaker in the gym. I would think I still hit my macros with doing so, but the weights didn't lie. I now eat like iifym more and I always wonder if I would make better gains eating on a set schedule and cutting out certain cheat meals that iifym's people have in their daily diet.

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    iifym is bullshit. There's more to nutrition than simply macros
    TheCaptn' is not a registered proctologist. His post are for his amusement only. Please seek proper medical advice if symptoms persist.


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    Iifym is for lazy people that want to justify their lazy shitty eating habits

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    For me it matters in how I feel, and it seems to matter with body comp also. I use carb back loading and these are my observations.

    1. By skipping carbs in my first few meals I feel better throughout the day, period. No study will tell me how I feel, if I eat carbs early in the day it sets me off on my bad track

    2. I actually have more focus, energy and intensity in the gym by skipping carbs that first half. Some people claim they need that pre workout meal, me I crash. Not saying my way is better, just that the timing matters for me.

    3. It could just be a macro/calorie trick where by skipping carbs early I end up "saving" calories so when i gorge at night my total calories aren't as high as I think, but let me tell you I go bananas some nights and eat a bag of Oreos and poptarts before bed and wake up as vascular as ever

    For me it seems to matter, at the very least it effects how I feel

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    Quote Originally Posted by theCaptn' View Post
    iifym is bullshit. There's more to nutrition than simply macros
    Like micro nutrients lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by xenomorph8472 View Post
    I've been over this time and time again on different forums, and usually "6 times a day is optimal" eating seems to be espoused anecdotally, every single time.

    Now I realize, and in my own experience, that bodybuilding contest prep dieting (<10%) is probably a completely different story. I say my own experience because I've never gone below 8% myself so I have no idea what to think, and I've always dirty bulked to get stronger, as opposed to doing the same while maintaining weight, as I have heard anecdotally some have done, although I'm not convinced.

    Is my confusion perhaps revolve around the difference between active weight loss or gain, and simple optimization of fuel availability? It seems there is a huge crossing of lines in the general discussion about what's optimal in one's diet.

    Study on weight loss: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19943985
    Study on fuel efficiency: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155497
    Nice finds.

    Let's start here...

    Increased meal frequency does not promote greater weight loss in subjects who were prescribed an 8-week equi-energetic energy-restricted diet

    Research shows that the standard Bodybuilding Protocol of eating every three to four hours does not increase your metabolism.

    Fasting

    Research shows that Fasting increases you metabolism up to 72 hours. That because you body is now having to metabolize fat to produce energy.

    However, after about 72 hours you metabolism will drop and goes into a survival mechanism.

    It somewhat like getting a pay cut. You initially have the same bill.

    However, to survive you end up moving to a place that cost less and learning how to spend less.

    Intermittent Fasting: Science or Fiction
    http://www.nsca.com/videos/conferenc...ce_or_fiction/

    This is a good seminar by Dr. John Berardi that goes into meal frequency and metabolism.

    Norepinephrine and Epinephrine

    In the initial fasting state, fat burning/increased metabolism occurs predominate through Norepinephrine and epinephrine.

    However, low insulin levels, increased growth hormone, testosterone, etc appear to play supportive roles.

    Effect of meal frequency and timing on physical performance

    Research by Brad Schoenfeld and Alan Aragon, has shown that progress can be made without a post workout beverage or meal.

    So, if you don't eating anything afterward, it doesn't appear that will be a problem in the long run.

    In a game of yards, inches matter.

    Dr. Stu Phillip interview acknowledged Schoenfeld and Aragon's research.

    However, Phillips went on to state that taking something before, during and after definitely inches out not taking a something before, during or after your workout.

    Take Home Message

    A pre, during and post workout beverage is that in a game of yards gaining a couple of inches definitely adds up.

    Kenny Croxdale

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    The only reason multiple meals are a benefit in my opinion is that if you like to eat clean you have to eat multiple meals as its damn near if not impossible to fit in the calories if you dont.
    I honestly think the majority of the people expending their time and energy figuring out and trying to optimize nutrient or meal timing would be much better served directing their efforts in other areas. WAY better served.
    Also those that use the logic that well say Phil Heath does it so there must be some benefit I have news for you, you re not, nor are you near the level of Phil Heath. Honestly the only time I think nutrient manipulation matters is very close to pre contest when carbs and sodium need be manipulated to control water retention, otherwise I dont think they really make any difference at all and the most certainly do not to the majority of the people that argue endlessly that they do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    Nice finds.

    Let's start here...

    Increased meal frequency does not promote greater weight loss in subjects who were prescribed an 8-week equi-energetic energy-restricted diet

    Research shows that the standard Bodybuilding Protocol of eating every three to four hours does not increase your metabolism.

    Fasting

    Research shows that Fasting increases you metabolism up to 72 hours. That because you body is now having to metabolize fat to produce energy.

    However, after about 72 hours you metabolism will drop and goes into a survival mechanism.

    It somewhat like getting a pay cut. You initially have the same bill.

    However, to survive you end up moving to a place that cost less and learning how to spend less.

    Intermittent Fasting: Science or Fiction
    http://www.nsca.com/videos/conferenc...ce_or_fiction/

    This is a good seminar by Dr. John Berardi that goes into meal frequency and metabolism.

    Norepinephrine and Epinephrine

    In the initial fasting state, fat burning/increased metabolism occurs predominate through Norepinephrine and epinephrine.

    However, low insulin levels, increased growth hormone, testosterone, etc appear to play supportive roles.

    Effect of meal frequency and timing on physical performance

    Research by Brad Schoenfeld and Alan Aragon, has shown that progress can be made without a post workout beverage or meal.

    So, if you don't eating anything afterward, it doesn't appear that will be a problem in the long run.

    In a game of yards, inches matter.

    Dr. Stu Phillip interview acknowledged Schoenfeld and Aragon's research.

    However, Phillips went on to state that taking something before, during and after definitely inches out not taking a something before, during or after your workout.

    Take Home Message

    A pre, during and post workout beverage is that in a game of yards gaining a couple of inches definitely adds up.

    Kenny Croxdale
    These are super helpful, I'll spend some time on them.

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