Squats with smith machine

[BeerHunter]

I had surgery on my foot in March (heel spur removed and plantar fascia released) and have been using the Smith for the last few months incase my foot decides to give out in the middle of a push. I have noticed a great difference in the way it effects my lower back(in a bad way). Should I go back to the squat rack, drop the weight to something more comfortable on my foot and do more reps?

 

[P-funk]

yes, most defenitly go and do real squats. By using the smith machine you are providing your body with a crutch wich is going to do nothing but create muscle imbalances, improper motor patterns and it will not alow you to properly learn how to deal with your problem wich may lead to a different injury.

 

[gr81]

Originally posted by Jvette73
I noticed that someone made a comment about smith machines being for pussys who are afraid to get under a squat rack. Comments like that do absolutly nothing to add to the debate. In fact they hurt the reputation of the forum and may make some people think twice before participating in threads or becomming a member. You moderators know what im talkin about. Frankley I could care less what anyone else thinks about me, but if people would excersize thier brain and think before they speak, then we could all benifit greater on this forum, and the membership #'s would likely go up.

Hit a little too close to home, huh? The fact is that people who don't know jack about legs assume that the smith would be safer b/c you can rack it at any time, and they envision themselves on the free squat bottoming out with too much weight on there. Why don't you just take it step by step and work your weight up and get stronger so you don't have to use a crutch like the smith machine to supposedly keep you safer. Based on your earlier comments, it sounds like you ARE afraid to get under a squat rack to me. Don't try to call me out like this and tell me I am not "exercising my brain" before I talk, How many times must we explain this concept to you before you understand it?

 

[Jvette73]

gr81, I never claimed to be highely knoledgable on the subject of legs or squats. Thats why im posting questions. Im learning from this forum and understand the responses that have been made. I have done and do do free weight squats even without a squat rack or spotter. So why would I be afraid to get under a rack? What did I say that makes you think that? I respect yours and everyone elses right to opinion. Just remember theres more than one way to prove a point. Avoiding derogatory comments will gain one more respect regaurdless of thier view point. Peace dude.

 

[gr81]

it wasn't necessarily a derogatory comment aimed at you, I was just using that phrase to prove a point, that is all. Its all good though, no harm no foul

 

[MeanCuts]

Jvette there's nothing wrong with learning and you definitely shouldn't be insulted for posting a question.Just remember there is good and bad advice. Try what you think makes sense first and maybe try what doesn't make as much sense cause you never know,but be safe,if it doesn't feel right don't do it. JMO

 

[Jvette73]

Im gonna change my routine a bit. Im gonna go back to doin free squats off the back of bench but ill have to keep the weights down to a point where I wont get into trouble or have to cheat to get out of it. Then on my final set I could go to the smith for one more set to complete failure. This way I can take advantage of the advice provided me here and still work to failure without getting into any real trouble. As far as the smith is concerned im not loading the heck out of it. Just maintaining good form with a reasonable amount of weight that produces failure in nor more than 8 to 10 reps. Thanks for the the advice everyone. Im taking note of it.

 

[Jvette73]

no hard feelins here gr81, nuff said

 

[maze]

just some notes...

I was recommended to use the barbell squat when got a right knee problem (Osteo-disecante) to avoid surgery ...

I can lift more on the regular barbell than the smith (and in the smith my base of the spine hurts / tickle sometimes)

One friend of mine had done smith for 1yr and when he started using the barbell he didnt have any balance. Took him 1 month to correct that on the barbell.

maze

 

[Dale Mabry]

Let me first start out by saying that I find the free squat to be far superior to the smith machine, but believe the smith has it's place. Anyway, here are a few points.

1)If you bring your heels under the bar and throw your back into lordosis (Ass out), partial reps are fine on the smith. Just don't go so low that your heels come off the floor.

2)If smith squats caused so much damage, there would be no hack squat machine out there since it is pretty much the same motion. Since there IS a hack squat machine out there, I will assume that no one has been sued extensively due to injuries caused by it.

3)That picture is pretty cool, but I noticed the heels were elevated which is a biomechanical no-no since it GENERALLY causes the knee to track past the toe causing a shear force at the knee. Not exactly the ideal situation.

That is all I got now, I have to go do legs...

 

[KarlW]

Sorry to drag this one out, but I've got a couple questions. I've always done free barbell squats and was wondering whether Smith squats could be used as a secondary exercise. After reading this thread I am thinking no, but.......

Here's what P-Funk said:

1) you are not driving through your bodies center of gravity creating a movement which is not functional. This intern creates an improper motor pattern in your brain.

>> This I understand. Aren't hack squats just the same i.e not functional where the COG is displaced?

2) because your feet are out infront of you and you are laying back, supported by the bar, you are creating lots of distortion with respect to your center of gravity, which is now iin front of you.

>> Same as point 1?

3)because of the position you are in on the smith squat you are placing lots of tension on the spinal erectors as well as the neck muscles which are being forced to push up the bar which you are resting against creating a great amount of strain.

>> How does it place more tension on the spine than normal squats? Is it because you are not driving through the COG? I know the feeling, like you're pushing into you spine, but I get that somewhat from hack squats and the sled leg press as well.

4) because your feet are infront of you and your center of gravity is displaced you are able to get down into much further knee flexion placing lost of uneccesary and dangerous shearing forces on the knees and hip.

>> How so? in regular squats I can go all the way down to full knee flexion, should I not be doing that?

I only respond to this thread because I want to know why Smith squats are bad. I know they are not as good as regular squats which I have always known, but then neither are leg presses or hack squats.
The main part I would like described again is why they are bad for the back and knees?

 

[ph8bringer]

This is a very interesting thread. I definately agree with Prince here. Also, regarding this issue, I have a question.

Is it ok to use the smith for bench press? I suffer from mild tendinitis in my left elbow and free bench irritates it. The problem will go away after a few more weeks, if I continue to avoid agrovating it. Using the smith, I can bench 200 pounds without pain to my elbow. On free bench, I can bench around 150-160 pounds, but it hurts to start the set. I havn't attempted heavier, because I took note of the pain and stopped.

So is it ok to use the smith for bench press?

 

[Duncans Donuts]

Hit a little too close to home, huh?

get stronger so you don't have to use a crutch like the smith machine to supposedly keep you safer.

This is an old thread, but that's fucking ridiculous.

 

[Arnold]

This is a very interesting thread. I definately agree with Prince here. Also, regarding this issue, I have a question.

Is it ok to use the smith for bench press? I suffer from mild tendinitis in my left elbow and free bench irritates it. The problem will go away after a few more weeks, if I continue to avoid agrovating it. Using the smith, I can bench 200 pounds without pain to my elbow. On free bench, I can bench around 150-160 pounds, but it hurts to start the set. I havn't attempted heavier, because I took note of the pain and stopped.

So is it ok to use the smith for bench press?

yes, it is okay to bench with a smith, but you really need to incorporate some other type of free weight exercise to keep the synergistic muscles strong.

have you tried dumbbell presses or flyes?

 

[Golden_Boy]

Hey guys, I'm not sure if I even belong in this heated debate, but will share with you a quick opinion.
Smith Machine vs Free Weight squats aside, with regards to the type of free weight rack, I'm upset that there is anything else beside a squat cage for this exercise. They have the other design, that will not let you place the weight down if you should fail. I've never failed myself yet in squats, but the thought of doing so frightens me because it would be horrific in itself, not to mention any injury that accompanies the trainer trying desperately to rack it from his knees.
I've written a long letter to my own gym about this issue, in an effort to get them to replace our current rack with a cage that has pins, and I'm willing to forward it to anyone who would like to see it/add on to it to help me improve it.
The last time I used a smith machine to do squats, I injured a muscle in my neck, and almost blacked out after hanging the weight back up. For whatever depth of knowledge I have (or lack thereof), I haven't seen any concern for the lower part of the body (besides the lack of involvement of stability muscles) when using a Smith Machine, but I will admit the first thing I find as soon as I have the weight on my shoulders and start lifting, is the amount of pressure on my upper shoulders/neck, which I don't experience in free weight lifting.

 

[ChrisROCK]

interesting stuff.... I guess i'll be taking the advice of the more senior members here and start doing regular squats more frequently. I always reserved them for when i had a training partner...and lately that's almost never. Ironically enough, this comes after a night of heavy (for me) smith squats... and this morning...i feel like i tweaked my back last night. Nothing major, but there is some discomfort there.