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    Second Lab Test Results

    Labs attached. 750-1000mgs of sust250 for over 10 weeks, arimidex at 3-4mgs per week. Pinning was eod. Last pin was Wednesday morning, blood was taken Saturday morning.

    If anybody has any input on values, please chime in.

    This is the second time I test unclez/ep gear. First time 500mgs of test had me at 1474 test levels. This time I'm at 1911. Take it for what you want but in my opinion this gear is majorily underdosed....





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    hmm a gram and the number was 1900... seems a little low to me. I test over 1200 on 250 a week plus hcg. but I don't usually follow a protocol unless its for script, only because I know my gear is good and I really just want to make sure I'm not dead/dieing and check my e2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    hmm a gram and the number was 1900... seems a little low to me. I test over 1200 on 250 a week plus hcg. but I don't usually follow a protocol unless its for script, only because I know my gear is good and I really just want to make sure I'm not dead/dieing and check my e2.
    I know, I won't be using this gear anymore for sure. It tested low twice for me. Im interested in figuring out why my other values are out of range.

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    Here's my first labs for comparison. This was on 500mgs a week of test E, 50mgs of dbol ed, and basically little to no AI.



    I want to understand the other values that are outbof range like MCH, etc.

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    Damn your estrogen is 144? My just came in at 36, am I too low? Your liver enzyme level was high at 187, ist that from the oral? Did they check your PSA? Mine came in at 4.1 and I'm not sure what to think about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1HungLo View Post
    Damn your estrogen is 144? My just came in at 36, am I too low? Your liver enzyme level was high at 187, ist that from the oral? Did they check your PSA? Mine came in at 4.1 and I'm not sure what to think about that.
    That was my old test results, only put those to compare the values that keep coming out of range like MCH. 144 was high back then and dbol caused liver enzymes to be high.

    The focus of this thread is the new test results in the first post.

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    Gotcha. Yep, your estrogen is a lot better now. I agree your test level should have been quite a bit higher on that dose. Thanks for posting these up.

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    Looks like you might have an iron deficiency or be anemic.....
    I never see what has been done; I only see what remains to be done -buddha

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    Quote Originally Posted by skinnyguy180 View Post
    Looks like you might have an iron deficiency or be anemic.....
    Yea that's what my research shows is from having low mch, mcv, and hemoglobin with high rdw.

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    Brother, please test my brew and I will compensate you with some oil

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    Quote Originally Posted by Disqualified View Post
    Brother, please test my brew and I will compensate you with some oil
    Thanks brother, cruising on your stuff now and will get bloods again in a few weeks. The low hemoglobin value concerns me. I think I'm going to start supplementing with iron to see if that gets me back in range. I hope im not anemic.

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    have you sent the labs to z yet and asked about quality control?

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    Quote Originally Posted by psychowhitekenny View Post
    have you sent the labs to z yet and asked about quality control?
    I did last time and was compensated but obviously I don't care to get compensated again. I don't want to keep wasting time pinning underdosed shit. I got great results on my last cycle too, I can only imagine with better gear what I could have accomplished.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rambo99 View Post
    I did last time and was compensated but obviously I don't care to get compensated again. I don't want to keep wasting time pinning underdosed shit. I got great results on my last cycle too, I can only imagine with better gear what I could have accomplished.

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
    Hey bro, so you havent ran ur Crimson gear yet?? I believe we both ordered at same time originally..2 sales back. If u havent run it yet, your in for a pleasant surprise. You just may get the answer you seek! LOL. As you can see, Ive since been inspired enough to wear Crimson (as a supporter, not a rep). Oh, and I too also ran my previous cycle Euro Pharm Sustanon and Test Prop. I took 2 months off everything before blasting Crimson Tren, Primobolan, and Cyp. To say im happy would be an understatement.

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    I just started cruising on DQs cyp. I will test in a few weeks, I need to keep my eye on the other values.

    Do you have bw to confirm this? You can still get great results on underdosed shit if your busting your ass in the gym and kitchen, ask me how I know....

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    Your labs show that you tested positive for pure canola oil.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmoe65 View Post
    Your labs show that you tested positive for pure canola oil.
    If I would have knew, I would have used it to cook my meals....

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    Quote Originally Posted by rambo99 View Post
    If I would have knew, I would have used it to cook my meals....

    Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
    The extreme high heat would severly damage whatever little hormone was in there at the beginning. Making a nice oil/vinegar dressing out of it would have been my first choice.

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    I cook my chicken with injectable D-Bol as my oil of preferance.

    Dem Gainz

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    What if I inject my chicken with dbol then cook and eat?

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    You're looking at 52 grams of protein per 8oz and 250mg of liver failure

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    What about dry scalp issues.? One would massage the oil Into the scalp, solving dry scalp issues while absorbing hormone.

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    Its tough to judge blends because the short esters have petered out by the time you get the draw. I don't think you can fairly count the short prop ester in this testing at all. Additionally the deconate ester is so heavy that it has less free hormone so you would have to account for that shortage as well.



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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    Its tough to judge blends because the short esters have petered out by the time you get the draw. I don't think you can fairly count the short prop ester in this testing at all. Additionally the deconate ester is so heavy that it has less free hormone so you would have to account for that shortage as well.
    True, the prop & phenylprop, which makes up 90 mg of each 250 mg inject, would be almost gone by 5 days post-injection, BUT...didn't he say he got bloods done after 10 weeks? If so, the decanoate ester is not disadvantageous when it comes to elevating T levels. Yes, its longer ester results in less active testosterone being released into the bloodstream per mg injected, but this is irrelevant, as the decanoate ester is actually superior to shorter esters when it comes to elevating T levels over the long-term. This is due to its longer half-life leading to a greater build-up in blood levels over time. This is the reason why test cyp/enth always result in higher T levels than prop when tested at 4 weeks out when used at an equal dose...because the longer ester allows for a larger amount of hormone to build-up in the bloodstream. Test decanoate is the same way. Because it is longer than both enth & cyp, it will result in a higher peak blood level than either of them when used at equivalent doses (assuming it is used long enough to allow the blood level to reach its peak, which in this case was more than long enough).

    Since testing was done at 10 weeks out, blood levels would already be at their peak when using decanoate. Although I could not say exactly, 100 mg of test undecanoate, when tested at peak blood levels, would probably provide a blood level equivalent to about 115-120 mg of test cyp or enth, so it is certainly better at elevating and sustaining blood levels with long-term use.

    Sust also contains 60 mg of the isocaproate ester, which is almost as long as the enth ester. In total, each 250 mg injection supplies 160 mg of long-estered test (100 mg undecanoate & 60 mg isocaproate). In reality, an equal combination of decanoate and isocaproate is probably really damn close to proving peak blood levels similar to test cyp, as the one ester is slightly longer than cyp and the other slightly shorter. However, because more undecanoate is used than isocaproate (almost twice as much), the 100 mg Decano & 60 mg Iso found in Sust should result in slightly higher blood levels than straight test cyp when used at the same dose (160 mg).

    In other words, 100 undec + 60 mg Iso is superior to 160 mg test cyp for maximizing T concentrations once peak blood levels are reached.

    So, if he was using 1,000 mg of Sust per week, his total longe ester dose would be 640 mg (360 decan + 240 mg iso). Although the prop & phenyl prop, which equals out to 360 mg per week combined, would be almost gone at 5 days post-injection, it would not be completely gone--some would still be hanging around. Therefore, at least some of it needs to be included in the equation. All in all, the OP should have experienced a blood level similar to what is experienced when using at least 700 mg of test cyp at 5 days post-inject.

    700 mg of long-esterd gear weekly, with the majority of it coming from the decanoate ester, should result in some pretty damn high blood levels after 10 weeks of regular use. In other words, thety should definitely be higher than what the test results indicated--considerably. however, I suppose it is possible, especially when dealing with UG's, that the ester ratio was not accurate. I have encountered gear before that was supposed to be Sust, but contained almost all prop. Needless to say, when I got blood work done at 7 days post-inject, my blood levels were shit--barely elevated. I was discreetly informed that this particular batch may have been screwed up and contained much more prop than it was supposed to, so I re-tested it a few weeks later at 2 days post-injection and my levels were through the roof, indicating that it did indeed contain much more prop than the label stated.

    I am not saying this is the case here, but you never know with UGL's--weirder stuff has happened.
    Last edited by Mike Arnold; 06-29-2014 at 11:17 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Arnold View Post
    True, the prop & phenylprop, which makes up 90 mg of each 250 mg inject, would be almost gone by 5 days post-injection, BUT...didn't he say he got bloods done after 10 weeks? If so, the decanoate ester is not disadvantageous when it comes to elevating T levels. Yes, its longer ester results in less active testosterone being released into the bloodstream per mg injected, but this is irrelevant, as the decanoate ester is actually superior to shorter esters when it comes to elevating T levels over the long-term. This is due to its longer half-life leading to a greater build-up in blood levels over time. This is the reason why test cyp/enth always result in higher T levels than prop when tested at 4 weeks out when used at an equal dose...because the longer ester allows for a larger amount of hormone to build-up in the bloodstream. Test decanoate is the same way. Because it is longer than both enth & cyp, it will result in a higher peak blood level than either of them when used at equivalent doses (assuming it is used long enough to allow the blood level to reach its peak, which in this case was more than long enough).

    Since testing was done at 10 weeks out, blood levels would already be at their peak when using decanoate. Although I could not say exactly, 100 mg of test undecanoate, when tested at peak blood levels, would probably provide a blood level equivalent to about 115-120 mg of test cyp or enth, so it is certainly better at elevating and sustaining blood levels with long-term use.

    Sust also contains 60 mg of the isocaproate ester, which is almost as long as the enth ester. In total, each 250 mg injection supplies 160 mg of long-estered test (100 mg undecanoate & 60 mg isocaproate). In reality, an equal combination of decanoate and isocaproate is probably really damn close to proving peak blood levels similar to test cyp, as the one ester is slightly longer than cyp and the other slightly shorter. However, because more undecanoate is used than isocaproate (almost twice as much), the 100 mg Decano & 60 mg Iso found in Sust should result in slightly higher blood levels than straight test cyp when used at the same dose (160 mg).

    In other words, 100 undec + 60 mg Iso is superior to 160 mg test cyp for maximizing T concentrations once peak blood levels are reached.

    So, if he was using 1,000 mg of Sust per week, his total longe ester dose would be 640 mg (360 decan + 240 mg iso). Although the prop & phenyl prop, which equals out to 360 mg per week combined, would be almost gone at 5 days post-injection, it would not be completely gone--some would still be hanging around. Therefore, at least some of it needs to be included in the equation. All in all, the OP should have experienced a blood level similar to what is experienced when using at least 700 mg of test cyp at 5 days post-inject.

    700 mg of long-esterd gear weekly, with the majority of it coming from the decanoate ester, should result in some pretty damn high blood levels after 10 weeks of regular use. In other words, thety should definitely be higher than what the test results indicated--considerably. however, I suppose it is possible, especially when dealing with UG's, that the ester ratio was not accurate. I have encountered gear before that was supposed to be Sust, but contained almost all prop. Needless to say, when I got blood work done at 7 days post-inject, my blood levels were shit--barely elevated. I was discreetly informed that this particular batch may have been screwed up and contained much more prop than it was supposed to, so I re-tested it a few weeks later at 2 days post-injection and my levels were through the roof, indicating that it did indeed contain much more prop than the label stated.

    I am not saying this is the case here, but you never know with UGL's--weirder stuff has happened.
    My comment on the decanoate ester was in the context of comparing it to Cyp or Enathate. Since we use that as the protocol. Regardless of the time on the decanoate it has less free hormone so it would measure lower total T mg for mg than Cyp or E. I know you already know this but not sure you understood the context of my answer.

    Anyway there are several challenges comparing this blend to cyp or enanthate blood work results. Ultimately comparing 1 gram of Sust to 1 gram of Cyp under the present circumstances will definitely not yield similar results.

    I'm not defending the brand in any way shape or form because it looks underdosed to me I just think we need to be fair when using a crude method like this.



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    Quote Originally Posted by heavyiron View Post
    My comment on the decanoate ester was in the context of comparing it to Cyp or Enathate. Since we use that as the protocol. Regardless of the time on the decanoate it has less free hormone so it would measure lower total T mg for mg than Cyp or E. I know you already know this but not sure you understood the context of my answer.
    You are absolutely right when you say that the decanoate ester has less total test per mg (not much, though), but this does not mean it will always measure lower total T than Decanoate. Assuming the weekly dosage used for each ester is the same, we need to look at the number of weeks each drug was used in order to determine which one will provide a higher total T reading.

    Longer esters, despite containing less total test per mg, will ALWAYS result in higher total T levels when used at equivalent doses, but ONLY once peak blood levels are reached, which will vary depending in the ester used. Before I go any further, please allow me to clarify what I am referring to when I use the term "peak blood levels" in this context. When I say "peak blood levels" I am not referring to how long it takes blood levels to peak after a single injection. Rather, I am talking about the length of time it takes for a given ester to reach maximum T levels with successive weekly injections.

    For example, let's compare a short ester like test ace to a very long ester like Nebido (test undecanoate). Whe using a short ester like test ace at 1,000 mg/week, blood levels will reach peak concentrations within one week. No matter how many weeks we use test ace for at that dosage, blood levels will never climb any higher than they were during the first week. In other words, we could inject 1,000 mg of test ace at the start of each week for 8 weeks straight, but T levels will never climb any higher than they were during week 1. The ester just clears too fast to allows successive weekly injections to build on previous injections.

    However, when using Nebido (test undecanoate) at 1,000 mg/week, it will take 8 full weeks to reach peak blood levels. This ester has bene shown to gradually release over a full 2 month period, according to recent research on TRT patients. One study showed that Nebido was able to maintain testosterone withina normal range for 2 whole months after a single 1,000 mg injection. We could never acheive something like that with test ace because it would completely clear the bloodstream after just one week, no matter how much we injected in a single inject. Obviously, this is why longer-esters are used for TRT and shorter esters aren't.

    Well, it is precisely the very long half-life of Nebido which allows it to achieve higher total blood levels than test ace when used for 8 successive weeks. When using Nebido at a dose of 1,000 mg weekly, one's T levels would be through the damn roof after 8 weeks of use because 8 weeks of injections would have built up on each other. When using test ace, NONE of the weeks would have built up on each other...the ester is just too short. So, when trying to decide whether the Test ace or the Nebido results in higher blood levels, it is ALL dependent on how many weeks the drugs were used for. Obviously, if we get bloodwork after just one week, the test ace is going to result in higher blood levels than the Nebido because the entire amount of the drug is released during the first week. However, if we wait 8 weeks to get bloodwork, the nebido would result in higher T levels due to 8 weeks of successive injections building on each other.

    In the end it really doesn't matter what ester is being used, as a longer ester will always result in a higher total blood levels than a shorter ester, so long as it is provided with enough time to maximize blood levels.

    Of course, if we are comparng only a single injecion, then the shorter ester will always result in a higher peak level when used at equivalent doses, due to its rapid release rate into the bloodstream, but in the OP's case we are talking about somone who has been using Sust for 10 full weeks at 1,000 mg per week. Due to the inclusion of both decanoate and isocaproate in the Sust blend, blood levels would have already been maximized by 10 weeks. It's not like the guy did only one injection then got bloodwork. He did literally 10 weeks of injections at 1 gram per week. That is a LOT of build-up (Note: blood levels peak with decanoate after about 4 weeks).

    The fact that the OP had his blood drawn after using a full gram of Sust for 10 weeks straight...and the fact he got his blood drawn only 3 days after his last inject, would have not only allowed the decanoate and isocaproate esters to reach peak blood levels, but the prop esters would have still been present as well. Taking all of this into consideration, his blood levels should have been much higher than it was.

    I understand that the different esters used in Sust makes it very difficult to say exactly what his level should have been, but there is no doubt that it should have been much higher than it was.


    Anyway there are several challenges comparing this blend to cyp or enanthate blood work results. Ultimately comparing 1 gram of Sust to 1 gram of Cyp under the present circumstances will definitely not yield similar results.
    Agreed, but based on our understanding of the pharmakokinetics of each ester, we can at least know when a T reading is approaching an acceptable range at a given dosage. In this case it is certainly not.

    I'm not defending the brand in any way shape or form because it looks underdosed to me I just think we need to be fair when using a crude method like this.
    I agree 100%, buddy. By the way, I know you did not require all the basic explanations I typed out in this article, but I put them there for others. After reading what you said, I think we were both talking about two different things. You were probably talking about how long it takes for a single injection to reach peak blood levels, in which case you were absolutely correct that a shorter ester will always reach a higher level after a single inject, while I was refering the time it takes for blood levels to peak with successive injections. Obviously, this is two completely different things.
    ...
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    I am looking into all of this right now! I just saw this today. I will get to the bottom of this.

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    ^

    Lol. I'm pretty sure things have been pretty well figured out..
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    Mike thank you for the nice explanation. You are correct, I started pinning back in early April. 4/4/14 to be exact. Last pin was morning of 6/18/14, blood was drawn approximately at noon on 6/21/14. Barely 3 days later.

    Even if the compound contained more prop then it should, I would still see elevated levels from it with only 3 days after pin correct?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rambo99 View Post
    Mike thank you for the nice explanation. You are correct, I started pinning back in early April. 4/4/14 to be exact. Last pin was morning of 6/18/14, blood was drawn approximately at noon on 6/21/14. Barely 3 days later.

    Even if the compound contained more prop then it should, I would still see elevated levels from it with only 3 days after pin correct?

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    It was only 3 days later? Then yes, your blood levels should have been even higher than what I previously thought...through the roof, actually, as even test prop levels will still be fairly high after 3 days.
    IronMagLabs 15% Discount Code: Mike15




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