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Test/Tren Cutting Cycle Question

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    Test/Tren Cutting Cycle Question

    I need some more seasoned lifters to critique my diet for my current cutting cycle. Just started running 250mg test e and 400mg tren a. I will attach a picture of what my diet currently looks like. As far as my stats:

    6'1
    215 lb
    ~16-17% bf

    The spreadsheet is pretty self-explanatory. Meal totals are in grey and are calculated with the quantity/servings column. Overall Totals for the day are at the bottom.

    My goal is to be close to 10% before the end of November while hanging on to as much muscle as possible. I have been training for 2 years consistantly and it's time for me to cut the fat I gained while I was in college. As I mentioned earlier, I need some advice with the diet...and no, this is not my first cycle (or second for that matter). All comments appreciated!
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    This looks like a gimmick to me. Are these frozen dinners or something? Just fucking eat protein and vegetables with a healthy carb like lentils or brown rice. Or even a high fiber pasta. What's up with that chicken pot pie? Almost 2600 calories total? That's to much. If you are cutting, the whole point of being on gear is you can eat less and remain anabolic. I would eat around 1800 calories a day. Focus on healthy low calorie filling food with about 120 grams of protein total.

    The average person can maintain muscle mass by eating 100g of protein a day on a cut. You are not average. You are on gear. I'm giving you an extra 20 grams. You should be thanking me. People here will tell you to eat more protein. Mark my words. It will be a waste. It will just get in the way of your goal. If you get extremely hungry and want to cheat that's when you eat the extra protein. That's a sign your metabolism is increasing so you deserve it.

    Have a nice day!

    Oh and you're not supposed to get on gear for the sole purpose of losing weight. There are other drugs for that. Dieting while on tren...you are fucked. Yer gonna kill your family and burn your house down. Well maybe not but you'll want to.

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    Not frozen dinners...its slow cooker/healthy recipes. Look up the guys channel (the protein chef) on youtube and you will find all these videos on his meals. I was eating 1800-2000 cals naturally to cut before this and I feel like I lost some muscle in the process, and my protein intake was over 200g a day. Training is also not lacking..6 days a week with doing 45 mins L/I cardio 4 days. 1800 cals would make me look like a Kenyan, not my goal.

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    I am unfamiliar with protein chef and his recipes but if I really wanted to lose weight I would be eating whole foods and not processed ones... Simple things like potatoes(red, yukon gold, russet, fingerling, sweet) rice(white, brown, wild) chicken steak fish turkey lamb veggies(broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, spinach) fruit(apple, oranges, strawberries).... nothing with flour(bagels, bread, torillas, pasta) and nothing that you have to use prepared ingredients for.

    Thankfully I'm skinny again after dieting pretty hard in the above fashion.... Well with the help of metabolism boosters, peps, and gear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flex10 View Post
    Not frozen dinners...its slow cooker/healthy recipes. Look up the guys channel (the protein chef) on youtube and you will find all these videos on his meals. I was eating 1800-2000 cals naturally to cut before this and I feel like I lost some muscle in the process, and my protein intake was over 200g a day. Training is also not lacking..6 days a week with doing 45 mins L/I cardio 4 days. 1800 cals would make me look like a Kenyan, not my goal.
    This is impossible. Were you losing strength? No you weren't. Stop imagining things bro. You were losing weight. You felt smaller. Stop arguing. 2600 calories is way to much for a 215lb person with 17% bodyfat to fucking CUT!!! And the protein chef can stick his own head up his ass for all I care.

    Roast some split chicken breasts and shove some veg in your pie hole. It's that simple.

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    Way to many carbs and as ray said 2600 calories... I am 270ish and was cutting hard and I dont think I got over 1800 a day... Nothing processed unless you count my wife cooking it for me. I ran my cut from may 1 to sept 1 and when hard and still didnt make my cut goal...

    Tren will allow you to build muscle while not adding calories. In my case I added cutting calories. If you want the abs and cut its diet I know my diet suxed and it wasnt that bad. I know alot more now about it and I am still learning.
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    I did a weight loss competition a while back eating 500-700 calories a day with no strength loss. I even gained some. I went from pressing 60lb dumbells to 80lbs. That ain't losing muscle bro. I lost 70lbs in 92 days and increased my bench by 40lbs. Don't fucking tell me you were losing muscle on 200 grams of protein a day. That is idiotic. All this was off gear. Not even TRT.

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    Right now I'm 212 @14% and started my cut at 2600 cals and am losing 1-2 lbs a week. Once I stall I'll drop 100 cals from carbs and keep repeating this process. You want to start eith the most amount of food then slowly taper down, not start at some crazy low level. And concidering your on tren, you could prob keep cals pretty high the whole time and drop bf/gain muscle. I.e go by the mirror test, not the scale. Below is my diet, is a carb backloading type diet

    meal 1- chicken breast with some guacamole
    meal 2- chicken breat with salad
    Meal 3- same as 2
    workout
    meal 4- shake- 50g protein from whey 50g carbs from dextrose
    Meal 5- chicken breast and a bag of knorr rice sides which is about 125g carbs
    This leaves me with 600 cals to eat whatever I want, I prefer/advise carbs here. I usually eat 3 toaster strudels, ice cream sandwiches, low fat ice cream, or cereal with fat free milk

    I weigh out 2lbs of chicken breast and cook it. Then I just take some out for each meal. Macros are 250g protein and then about 250g carbs and the rest fat. As I need to drop calls I'll drop those at that end of the day junk food

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    Also non workout days I take tnat last 600 cals out , ontop of not having tne post workout shake jts a nice calorie drop

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    At first glance your calories look high. I am 5'10" and 210 with around 10% BF been on a cut now for 3 months. My lean mass has not gone down the whole time still around 194. But my weight has gone down about 12 pounds.

    What I do is calculate my maintenance (look online there's a ton of calculators) figure in my activity and I reduced the cals by 500. I have been losing about 1 pound of fat a week consistently for the past 12 weeks. To me your ratios look off You have 45/35/25. I do 50/30/20. But everyone is different. My idea is fat is the most caloric dense so why let it take up more cals than possible. Unless your daily activity is extremely high I think 2600 cals is too much. even when I train hard I only allow around 2200 while on a cut.

    I also use an app called myfitnesspal works great you can set what ratios you want it even calculates and adjusts for exercise as long yo input it. It has a scanner that you can scan bar codes on food items. that way there is no guessing.

    If I were you I would take it down to 2200 as your maintenance and deduct 500 from there. I go by how I feel and what the scale and skin fold measurement say. If I feel tired and work outs suck and at weeks end I lose weight but the skin fold stays the same then I need to add calories because my body is tearing down muscle and not fat. As long as I feel relatively good and the fat keeps going down and the lean mass is staying I don't mess with it. I also throw in 1 cheat day every 5 or 6 days depending how I feel.

    As ray suggested it is easier to count stuff by keeping it simple. I'll have to check out those protein chef websites. I am also a chef so food variety and meals that are appealing are not a challenge for me even on this cut diet. You can sub a lot of fats normally in stuff for healthier stuff like I do a chicken salad and use low fat greek yogurt and low fat sour cream instead of mayo. Tastes like chicken salad but with a 10th of the fat. Also cottage cheese and yogurt go well in protein shakes makes them creamier. try freezing yogurt mixed with protein powder once its frozen its like a frosty or blizzard type thing.

    Good luck Bro!

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    Quote Originally Posted by flex10 View Post
    Not frozen dinners...its slow cooker/healthy recipes. Look up the guys channel (the protein chef) on youtube and you will find all these videos on his meals. I was eating 1800-2000 cals naturally to cut before this and I feel like I lost some muscle in the process, and my protein intake was over 200g a day. Training is also not lacking..6 days a week with doing 45 mins L/I cardio 4 days. 1800 cals would make me look like a Kenyan, not my goal.
    You don't need the cardio if you eat right. The cardio is what screwed you up otherwise it looks right on the money. Save the cardio for the last little that won't go once your below 10%. Im at around 10% now and dropped 12 pounds of fat the past 3 months never done a minute of cardio. If your training hard enough you don't need cardio. slow and steady wins the race. too fast and it will rebound quickly. nice and slow the body thinks its normal and accepts it and you won't rebound.

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    I don't know what is so difficult,find out what your MBR is and drop cal 500 a week,than excersize hard drop another 500 cal per workout thats 2500 on a 5 workout week and 3500 cal is 1lb,if you lose more than 2lbs a week you will lose some muscle,most weight loss in the first two weeks is water followed by muscle,fat is the last thing to go,your body has a built in mec. and don't want to give any fat up,you have to force it,just like cardio,i see so many people doing cardio before there workout,why? Can you run a race on an empty tank of fuel,thats what you do,when you work off your glucose first,than try and workout with weights,either do your cardio post workout or first thing upone waking up on an empty stomach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raysd21 View Post
    This looks like a gimmick to me. Are these frozen dinners or something? Just fucking eat protein and vegetables with a healthy carb like lentils or brown rice. Or even a high fiber pasta. What's up with that chicken pot pie? Almost 2600 calories total? That's to much. If you are cutting, the whole point of being on gear is you can eat less and remain anabolic. I would eat around 1800 calories a day. Focus on healthy low calorie filling food with about 120 grams of protein total.

    The average person can maintain muscle mass by eating 100g of protein a day on a cut. You are not average. You are on gear. I'm giving you an extra 20 grams. You should be thanking me. People here will tell you to eat more protein. Mark my words. It will be a waste. It will just get in the way of your goal. If you get extremely hungry and want to cheat that's when you eat the extra protein. That's a sign your metabolism is increasing so you deserve it.

    Have a nice day!

    Oh and you're not supposed to get on gear for the sole purpose of losing weight. There are other drugs for that. Dieting while on tren...you are fucked. Yer gonna kill your family and burn your house down. Well maybe not but you'll want to.
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    2600 calories at 215lbs and 17% bodyfat is just to much. Especially if your goal is 15 pounds by November. It's just a fact.

    Just doing the math. You need to be in a 584 calorie deficit a day everyday for 90 days. Not taking into consideration your body type or metabolism and the body's ability to adapt.

    Like I said the test will help you remain anabolic. It won't help you lose weight. The rest is up to you.

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    Thanks for all the replies. Looks like a pretty popular conclusion that I need to drop calories closer to 2000-2200 and go from there. Maybe it was the cardio that was breaking me down, but I definitely lost strength. I will scale it back to twice a week.

    Ray, sorry if I came off as a twat, I know alot of you guys are more experienced than I am and I appreciate the recommendation. I just have done quite a bit of research and 1800 cals contradicts everything I have read about doing it slow and steady to preserve muscle. I think I will bring it down to 2200 and drop cardio down to twice a week.

    ...and I'm not taking AAS solely to lose weight. I would like to increase lean muscle mass, also blood work came back from the endo with low test from a superdrol cycle I did while in college (very stupid, I know). I guess I never properly recovered. Prolactin was also high but has been reduced to almost nothing with prescription cabergoline (which I still have loads of) showed last results.

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    When tsking tren don't go by lbs, go by Bf%. You may only lose 5lbs but drop 5% bf. Buy one of those 30$ omron bf calculators. Weigh yourself Twice a week along with bf. They are surprisingly Comsistent, Maybe alil off but as long as your seeing it go down your good. Once you get below 10% it isn't very consistent. I've gotten the same exact reading 10 mornings in a row while maintaining my Weignt, that's good enough for me

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    Quote Originally Posted by Machmood View Post
    When tsking tren don't go by lbs, go by Bf%. You may only lose 5lbs but drop 5% bf. Buy one of those 30$ omron bf calculators. Weigh yourself Twice a week along with bf. They are surprisingly Comsistent, Maybe alil off but as long as your seeing it go down your good. Once you get below 10% it isn't very consistent. I've gotten the same exact reading 10 mornings in a row while maintaining my Weignt, that's good enough for me
    ^^^^^^^^Exactly this should be how everyone manages their weight. I like the skin fold calipers. Next to the water submersion test its the most reliable.

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    It's just not possible to lose strength or muscle on 200g of protein. If your testosterone was fucked that might be an answer but still. Something else was going on. What were your protein sources? What brand of protein powder were you using? Where you doing fasted cardio?

    If you want to do it slow and steady be my guest. There is gonna be more guessing and what ifs. Do 2600 calories for the first month and get your strength up. Then drop the calories for 2 months. That can work too. It's just math, willpower, and exercise.

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    Prescription Caber?!?! I'm jealous!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by raysd21 View Post
    It's just not possible to lose strength or muscle on 200g of protein. If your testosterone was fucked that might be an answer but still. Something else was going on. What were your protein sources? What brand of protein powder were you using? Where you doing fasted cardio?

    If you want to do it slow and steady be my guest. There is gonna be more guessing and what ifs. Do 2600 calories for the first month and get your strength up. Then drop the calories for 2 months. That can work too. It's just math, willpower, and exercise.
    Protein sources were pretty standard...chicken breast, steak, eggs, AN peanut butter, fish, etc. Protein powder was ON gold standard usually had 2 scoops twice a day. You do propose an interesting thought of doing more intense routines as far as weight loss. What are your thoughts on the flip side while gaining muscle? I have done a little reading on the short but high intensity with higher mg cycles for muscle mass. Would like you opinion.

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    Above 12%-14% fat you are gonna struggle putting on muscle depending on your age and genetics. That's the bottom line. You are just going to have to eat too much to gain the muscle. Think about it. Your body is using that food to support 35LBs of extra weight whether you like it or not. You really need to get your body in a more efficient/anabolic state. Get your body primed so you can use less gear. It goes along the lines of muscle priming or cycle priming. Here is a basic read.

    http://anabolicsteroidforums.com/sho...g-before-cycle

    You can use tren to lose weight. It binds to androgen receptors very intensely. There are androgen receptors in your fat. Primobolan has the same effect.

    Trens effectiveness will die down after a while. Then cruise for a while. Then cycle another compound. I would switch compounds for as long and as frequent as possible untill that doesn't work. Then up the dosage. The body is smart. You have to be smarter. There is no need for this mega dosing.

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