Supplement Question

[SRC]

I have some specific questions about some of the pro-steroids you can currently buy over-the-counter.

I am 32 years old, have been lifting for 15 years, am 5'11", 180 lbs, probably 5 pounds overweight, eat very healthy, don't drink, and have never taken a steroid or supplement, yes it's true!

I lift four days a week and run five miles on the fifth. I do a nice mix of mass building and ripping routines (i.e. lots of pyramids).

I'm at an all time plateau for the following areas:
My chest is solid and huge, and my back is likewise. Unfortunately, my traps, delts, and guns look disproportionately small to these two features. I do no solely focus on these two areas, I cover all in my routines with equal intensity. I just have a back and chest that pop-up and the rest doesn't.
My goal is to add about 10-15 pounds of solid muscle mass (along with some strength gains = bench and squat are stuck at 275 lbs., I want 300-315!!!), especially in my arm and shoulder areas while avoiding adding more "southern" fat to my mid-section. I'm a realist, but a hard lifter, and I know that it's finally time to "kick it up a notch". I like to do things slowly, but I'm even a bit timid about the well reviewed and trusted pro-steroids like 1-Test, 1AD, 4-AD, and Mag 10.
(I paid through the nose for a bottle of VPX 1 Test a few months ago and took the first dosage and couldn't sleep for two nights in a row, so I returned it - yes my body is very sensitive to foreign substances.)
I am willing to give the pro-steroid market one more try, but I can't handle being massively wired and unable to sleep with my current work schedule. I would also like to do this right: maybe something one step down from the intensity of 1 Test, and a whey supplement, and possibly an anti-estrogen OTC like ???
My (sorry, long-winded) question is, what should I try? I want to achieve what I described above, but the idiots at the local supplement stores which sell these products don't know a damn thing about anything! I guess the right combo of pro-steroid, protein supplement, and anit-estro (if needed) would finally get me over my plateau...

Thank you in advance for your time. And yes, I'm new to the whole IM/forum thing and apologize if I used the wrong format. I'm a gym rat, not a PC or supplement expert - thanks!
SRC

 

[ZECH]

SRC, welcome to IM! What you described about not being able to sleep is new to me. Sounds like you were taking an ECA of some kind. I could give you a million suggestions as what to do, but it is ultimately up to you to decide. Just stick with a reputable company!! Also ZMA will aid sleep at night. A common stack is 1-test and 4/ad.

 

[SRC]

Thanks, but?

Thanks for your response dg806, but I'm a little naive when it comes to stacking. Are you saying that I can combine dosages of something like 1 Test and 4 AD? And, does whey really add anything to my regimine? I get a decent amount of protein as it is?
Also, with the 1 Test, 1 AD, 4 AD (and Mag 10 - do you reccomend this one???), should I worry about taking anytype of anti-estrogen (one that I can find easy at GNC or the vit shop?)

 

[ZECH]

You normally take about 300-600mg(1-ad) a day along with 600-900mg 4/ad a day(oral) Transdermal vary. You really need lots of protein when on PH's for nitrogen retention to make muscle grow.You can take 6-oxoat the end of our cycle to get your test level back up quickly. I think mag 10 has a combo of both but it doesn't say how much. I would go with 1-ad first cycle maybe with an oral 4/ad. Any question yell!

 

[SRC]

Next Step Up?

Well dg806, I'm back. I took some of your advice and went on a 31-day cycle, which involved taking Biotest's 4ad ec, tons of whey, and a little Saw Palmetto near the end. Results for me are less than expected, but still positive. I gained about five pounds of solid muscle mass and another three pounds of pure fat (mostly from all the whey mixed with skim milk). I added about 10 pounds to my overall bench and feel and look slightly more solid and muscular. The biggest improvement I noticed was muscle hardness and quicker recovery time between workouts. In summary, for the money I spent (Total 2 bottles of 4ad, 2 buckets of whey, and one bottle of the palmetto = $150), I'm still not impressed. I've also been wondering if the 4ad merely acted as a placebo, because I kicked my workout regimen into overdrive over the cycle (knowing I had to get my money's worth) and might have gotten the same results w/out the supplement...
Regardless, thanks for your previous responses.
To let you know what my next cycle will include now that I want more gains (if this doesn't work, I might have to hit the black market):
Cycle 2 - Mag 10, whey, ZMA, and 6-OXO for 30 days
Followed by 30 days off
Cycle 3 - VPX 1 Test stacked w/1AD, whey, ZMA, 6-OXO
I'm hoping that after the three cycles are over and I cut the supplement induced fat out, that after 6 months I should have gained 25 pounds of solid muscle and added about 40 pounds to my bench. Are my expectations unrealistic and/or am I just pissing my money away on all this over the counter stuff?
Anyone else out there as well?
SRC

 

[ZECH]

4/ad oral is hard. It has low bio and you have to take over a gram a day to see much. That is why transdermal 4/ad is better. You get more absorption. I would go with a good transdermal 1-test and 4/ad. I'm not a big fan of mag 10. You might could give VPX syngex a shot. For transdermals, check out www.1fast400.com
I would still be happy with your gains! Over time, yes I think your goals are attainable! Also, you don't need to stack 1-test and 1-ad. Same thing.

 

[BabsieGirl]

DG --- You're soo nice.!!!!

 

[JerseyDevil]

Re: Next Step Up?

I'm betting you would have had much better results with 1-AD if going with one PH. 4-AD is best used for stacking with 1-AD or 1-test.

For me, using 1-AD I've gained 7lbs LBW, lost just over 3 lbs fat, and put 15 lbs on my bench in 16 days (13 more days to go). Still a 5 lb LBW is nothing to sneeze at

 

[SRC]

Thanks JerseyPaul. When you say one PH, you mean taking a stack like 1-Test with 4AD? From what dg806 said it sounds like a transdermal works better than an oral. Is transdermal the over the counter alternative to injectables (i.e. transdermals offer better absorption and are easier on the liver than orals)? If so, is there anything out there that really kicks ass in the transdermal line that would match a 1-test and 4-ad stack, and if so, where the hell do I rub this stuff? And, is 1-ad equal to 1-test? All I can get my hands on out here in the store is VPX and Bio-Test's orals.

 

[ZECH]

http://www.1fast400.com/?cPath=22&products_id=816&osCsid=1052ae2aa441f31b81a1688dfd0d4a63
You can rub it on your arms, stomach, chest. legs. Thin skinned areas work best!

 

[SRC]

Cycle 2

OK, this Friday I begin my second OTC cycle. I will go for the transdermal stack you recommended on my third cycle, but for right now, I'm really trying to take this in slowly increasing stages and want to see how well these PH's work on their own. Here is my second cycle plan (I already have the products sitting in my office and the smell of powdered whey is getting me psyched for my next cycle). BTW - it's been 30 days since cycle 1, and from it, I was able to put on 3+ lbs. of muscle and added maybe 10 lbs. to my bench. Ok, here goes:
30-day cycle 2
Mag 10 (full serving each morning)
Saw Palmetto (full serving each afternoon)
ZMA (three capsules each evening)
Creatine (full serving before workout)
Whey (full serving after workout)
Following 30 day cycle, 6-OXO for off cycle
My concerns:
Am I doing this right?
I still can't seem to get rid of the beef around my midsection. I eat tons of low-fat protein and veggies and I run 3.5 miles per week. I don't want to run too much b/c every time I run too frequently, I lose weight, but I also loose strength, yet I hate the way my stomach looks (yeah I do lots of abs too).
After my first cycle, my face broke out like a 14 year old with a chocolate fetish, looks odd on a 32-year-old man, I hated it.
After cycle 2, I will step it up to 1-test and 4-ad transdermals.
Thanks