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Collagen synthesis

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  1. #1
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    Collagen synthesis

    Think I posted this once, anyway here it is again. You can see within this why I will never touch Winstrol (so I say now anyway).

    (originally posted by AnimalMass)

    While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

    Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

    Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

    Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

    You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

    Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

    While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

    To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

    Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.

    Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

    Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

    Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

    These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

    Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

    Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

    GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

    Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

    Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

  2. #2
    So say I do 100mg of test a week and 200 mg eq a week this would possibly help to heal after surgery?
    Or could you run eq by itself? if you are more concerned with healing than sex?

  3. #3
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    You can run EQ buy itself for that purpose, but it will shut down your HPTA, so you it would be wise to use hcg concurrently, IMO. Also, remember that scar tissue is made of collagen. I won't speculate on the implications of that fact.

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    Wow. Good repost Mudge. There's so much to know. Im doing 100mg Cyp every 7-10 days for HRT and to be honest, I have been getting slight pains that just may be tendon related..guessing here. Wondering if i should add a very small amount of Gh to make it 100% right.

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    I found this. Think L-Proline would help?

    Hydroxyproline is produced by hydroxylation of the amino acid Proline. It is not directly coded for by DNA, however, and is hydroxylated after protein synthesis.
    Hydroxyproline is a major component of the protein collagen. Hydroxyproline and proline play key roles for collagen stability.[1] They permit the sharp twisting of the collagen helix.[2] It helps provide stability to the triple-helical structure of collagen by forming hydrogen bonds. Hydroxyproline is found in few proteins other than collagen. The only other mammalian protein which includes hydroxyproline is elastin.[3] For this reason, hydroxyproline content has been used as an indicator to determine collagen and/or gelatin amount.

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    From a ad for Genacol, Collagen types are:
    Type 1 - Bones, tendons, ligaments, skin
    Type 2 - Cartilage and structure of the eyes
    Type 3 - Liver, lungs, arteries
    Type 4 - Kidneys, other internal organs
    Type 5 - Cells surfaces, hair, placenta

    I'm definitely gonna give Genacol a try for my tendons. It aint Deca but if it works it works.

    I hurt what i think is tendons in what im gonna call my elbo's armpit. Trained bi's hard 2 days ago and dam last night i could barely fall asleep it hurt so much. Doing a curl motion was/is still slight pain with no weight in hand. I bought the l-proline and l-lysine today and i swear it feels better already no joke. I'll add the Genacol to the mix and push it hard we'll see what happens.

  7. #7
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    Sounds like tendonitis. Use a COX inhibitor and ice for a few days, and don't hyperextend. I don't believe supplements can be of much, if any, benefit for this.

  8. #8
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    Mudge and Pirate ... thanks again. Another webpage saved.

  9. #9

    Collagen vs Test

    OMG! now there's bones and tendons. If all I got is an abundant supply of Test Cyp...well...what else can be done legally over the counter (if anything) to balance the collagen and muscle growth on a test cycle?

    Then there's Nolva at the cycles end....ultra clean nutrition, smart training too....there's a helluva lot going on with just a simple cycle. Thanks for the info. Much to think about before even thinking about a cycle.

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