Arnold Schwarzenegger vs Dorian Yates

[Testosterone]

Two Champions of a kind! Completely opposite training styles and attitudes. Both have come out with their books "Encyclopedia of Modern Bodybuilding" and "Blood & Guts". Various masters and gurus have reviewed their writings and astonishingly gave Dorian's book while Arnold's Book was quite misleading .
Main question is you won't get to see any better champions than either of these two. Then whose training methodology should one go after if he has serious intentions in bodybuilding.
Arnold say "NO to STEROIDS" while Dorian accepted the fact that he used them and so did every Pro that's competing today.

MILLOIN $ QUESTIONS IS: If you were a coach and had your own gym, which idol would you prefer and implement it's principles on your Gym members and wannabe champions who come to your gym with serious aspirations in their minds?

 

[Rocco32]

As an idol I would definately take Arnold!! On the other hand, I haven't read Dorian Yates book, I have Arnolds and I don't agree with him. I agree with no steroids, but the w/o's he does is overtraining and the exercises he recommends can be dangerous to your joints. Not many people can train like Arnold, he is one of a kind IMO.

 

[Twin Peak]

Yates philosophies are more applicable to the masses.

 

[Flex]

Originally posted by rock4832
As an idol I would definately take Arnold!! On the other hand, I haven't read Dorian Yates book, I have Arnolds and I don't agree with him. I agree with no steroids, but the w/o's he does is overtraining and the exercises he recommends can be dangerous to your joints. Not many people can train like Arnold, he is one of a kind IMO.

Actually Rock, there is no such thing as overtraining. there in only underrecuperating. Doing as much as 50 sets for one bodypart is not overtraining. Getting too little sleep, food and overall rest is...

Any exercises he recommends can be dangerous on your joints, if you don't know the correct form. Show me one exercise that isn't if you don't know the correct way......

There are a few reasons Arnold doesn't condone or even admit taking steroids, and they are all good ones. First, he had political aspirtations (as you can see now), so coming out in the open saying i've done drugs is not smart (besides, back then they were LEGAL). Plus he has admitted on various talk shows in the past that he has....

Second, he is such a huge star that he actually WANTS to help kids by saying no to steroids. His whole life he has displayed his love for and care for children, through special olympics and proposition 36 (i think the # is). Arnold realizes that people idolize him, he is one of the most famous people on earth. People, especially kids that can't decide for themselves, take his word and books and everything else of his as "the way to be". So if he were to tell the truth "ya, i've taken steroids since the age of 13, i started with dbol, then primobolan and other drugs", there is no doubt in my mind that steroid use among kids and teens and adults alike would SKYROCKET! That's like Michael Jordan telling kids it's ok to gamble, or Michael Irving saying "ya kids, it was only a little coke". "Flex" magazine doesn't say they take steroids, and that's the #1 selling BB magazine out. They know kids/teens/adults will buy into their B.S. that they don't take steroids (but that is another arguement on another thread).

 

[Flex]

"did Bill Clinton come out of the blue and say yes, i did smoke pot, but don't worry, i didn't inhale". no, he did so when confronted.

Bottom line is they are both great champions with very different philosphies....personally Arnold is my fav.

"Arnold is numero uno"

 

[Flex]

As far as training styles, everyone responds differently. Many people respond better to higher volume and can't reach the all out intensity Dorian used for his 1 set to failure style.....but its different for everyone, most fall in somewhere in between.

 

[Rocco32]

I agree with you, I love Arnold!! However, there is underrecuperating, but I do believe there is also overtraining! And Arnold swears by a lot of exercises that put extra stress on rotator cuffs and lower back, that is more prone to risk w/ the normal population than regular db presses. I have heard and read Arnold say he did steroids in the beginning. In that time, there was no reports of the bad side of steroids, however he does have health problems related to that now.

 

[Ahsan]

well flex,
i think u r wrong arnold did take steriods in beginning and in ending either. there is such thing as overtraining.AND U even right that he didnt want the young generation to follow that fuckin rulz. taking anabols becoming monster.

 

[Testosterone]

As per various experts, Arnold misguided everybody about his training principles. So, BODYBUILDING WISE, you definitely DO NOT want to make Arnold your idol. Yes, as a person, Arnold is gem of a bodybuilder.
On the other hand, bodybuilding wise, Dorian has it all. His fighing spirit, SHADOW attitude was his trademark. Sure, person wise, he was not very mixable and talkative, but then he was BRITISH!.
Dorian is more remembered by everybody as BEST BODYBUILDER than a person, while in Arnold's case, in todays world, it's quite opposite.
After all is said & done, it was not arnold started it all. Credit must go to Steve Reeves and Larry Scott.

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by Flex
Actually Rock, there is no such thing as overtraining. there in only underrecuperating.

as I said in that other thread that is just semantics.

 

[Arnold]

Originally posted by Flex
There are a few reasons Arnold doesn't condone or even admit taking steroids, and they are all good ones. First, he had political aspirtations (as you can see now), so coming out in the open saying i've done drugs is not smart (besides, back then they were LEGAL). Plus he has admitted on various talk shows in the past that he has....

I give much more respect to someone that admits what they have done, lying and denying is not respectable the truth will always come out.

Example: How Clinton said he smoked pot but did not inhail, give me a break. I would have had much more respect for him had he just said he got high a few times, big deal, at least it would be truthful.

 

[Flex]

Originally posted by Testosterone
As per various experts, Arnold misguided everybody about his training principles. So, BODYBUILDING WISE, you definitely DO NOT want to make Arnold your idol. Yes, as a person, Arnold is gem of a bodybuilder.
On the other hand, bodybuilding wise, Dorian has it all. His fighing spirit, SHADOW attitude was his trademark. Sure, person wise, he was not very mixable and talkative, but then he was BRITISH!.
Dorian is more remembered by everybody as BEST BODYBUILDER than a person, while in Arnold's case, in todays world, it's quite opposite.
After all is said & done, it was not arnold started it all. Credit must go to Steve Reeves and Larry Scott.

First of all, Arnold did start it all. Yes Larry Scott and Reeves did come before Arnold, but Vince Gironda, John Grimek and Reg Park came before them. Arnold was the one who made BB from a dark subculture to the booming industry/following it is/has now. They don't call the '70's the "golden years" of BB for nothing. When someone thinks of BB, the first person that most comes to mind is Arnold.

Prince, i realize its semantics, but i'm only doing it to get my point across. And you can't be serious that you want the truth from everybody. Nobody is perfect. When George Bush jr. decided to run for pres., he didnt come out and say, so and so is my opinion on welfare and foreign aid, and oh ya, by the way, i'm a womanizer, i used to be a crazy party animal and blow coke all the time. Is that how you are? Do you introduce yourself to people by telling them all the imperfections you have, especially if you decided to run for political office...

Yes, Arnold was a womanizer, he used to bang chicks left and right. He took major steroids since age 13. He smoked pot back in the day (when it wasnt illegal). He drank, he partied, he sexed it up. Nobody is perfect, everyone makes mistakes and has "dark" secrets that they don't want anyone knowing. Show me someone who doesnt and you are a straight liar.

Again, he's not gonna say i took maj. steroids cuz he doesnt want everyone else to....and believe me, they would if they knew Arnold did, he's the most popular BB ever by far.

 

[Flex]

Originally posted by Ahsan
well flex,
i think u r wrong arnold did take steriods in beginning and in ending either. there is such thing as overtraining.AND U even right that he didnt want the young generation to follow that fuckin rulz. taking anabols becoming monster.

What are you trying to say man, i cant understand you. i said Arnold took steroids from age 13, its a fact. and no, there is not overtraining. I can't understand the rest...

 

[Testosterone]

Thats' exactly I mean to say. BE honest. If you've done something, Admit it!
Ronnie Coleman says that He don't use Steroids! Can you believe him?Markus Ruhl says, he dont use Synthol?Can you believe him?

Not only, you don't believe them but you tend to disrespect such guys, who lie!

Competitive Bodybuilding is a game of Steroids Today. Everyone has used it! Mind you-Everyone. But Nobody admits it. They keep on saying, they're natural! WTF..
This thing misguides youngsters. Youngsters have their idols in these people. After working out year after year, naturally, when they don't get PROFESSIONAL LIKE gains...they just give up...thinking that they've failed! They failed to emulate their Superstar! They don't even ponder over the fact that their so called idols failed to speak truth!
It's damn simple. If these pros openly admit that they use Roids, very few people would like to emulate them as their idols..In that case everybody would be fine working out in some gym making decent gains..if not gains like these Pros who always mislead.

As far Arnold's popularity, it's because of his exposure in Films, not by the virtue of his physique only!
Just like Stallone has decent body and more of a Ramboism associated with himself!

 

[gopro]

Niether, as both of these guys used steroids to achieve greatness. I would like to inspire my members with physiques that are more realistic and attainable. That said, my own training resembles Yates far far more than Arnolds. A natural bodybuilder could actually progress on a Yates style program, but not too many naturals would do well with Arnold's workouts.

 

[Flex]

Originally posted by Testosterone
Thats' exactly I mean to say. BE honest. If you've done something, Admit it!
Ronnie Coleman says that He don't use Steroids! Can you believe him?Markus Ruhl says, he dont use Synthol?Can you believe him?

Not only, you don't believe them but you tend to disrespect such guys, who lie!

Competitive Bodybuilding is a game of Steroids Today. Everyone has used it! Mind you-Everyone. But Nobody admits it. They keep on saying, they're natural! WTF..
This thing misguides youngsters. Youngsters have their idols in these people. After working out year after year, naturally, when they don't get PROFESSIONAL LIKE gains...they just give up...thinking that they've failed! They failed to emulate their Superstar! They don't even ponder over the fact that their so called idols failed to speak truth!
It's damn simple. If these pros openly admit that they use Roids, very few people would like to emulate them as their idols..In that case everybody would be fine working out in some gym making decent gains..if not gains like these Pros who always mislead.

As far Arnold's popularity, it's because of his exposure in Films, not by the virtue of his physique only!
Just like Stallone has decent body and more of a Ramboism associated with himself!

Dude youre missing my point. I never said i agree with them and how they lie. I completely agree with you that BB today is a game of steroids, i NEVER SAID THAT, youre making a different point. Do you know why noone admits it? $$$$$$$$$$$
Weider has and is still making a killing putting his own roided up monsters in his magazines saying alls you need to do is train hard, eat right and get enough sleep and you too can be 300lb shredded to the bone.

Secondly, its not their responsibility for coming out in the open and say "yes, i admit, i take steroids". that's these guys make a living. they eat, train, sleep and juice bodybuilding. In order to make $ to live, they must compete. In order to compete and win, they must juice...its an ongoing cycle.

You are getting into a moral arguement, saying they need to come out and state they take steroids. Why dont guys in baseball then, or the nfl? Why dont pro athletes come out and say "we like to party. we go out and drink, do drugs, get laid". because they don't have to!!!!!! they didn't make kids have them as their role model. these are people too, they happened to be great athletes, that kids want to emulate. Bottom line, they are people. They don't live their lives thinking, "wow, maybe i should be honest and tell the world i juice, then i'll quit juicing, stop getting sponsored, stop getting paid, and go around begging for donations"

It is not their responsibility!!! They owe nothing to anyone, its not their fault people look up to them.

 

[Flex]

And another thing testosterone guy,
If you said who is the best/most popular BB, then you went and contradicted yourself saying Arnold got popular because of movies. Which is it?

And are you kidding me? Arnold was and still is the greatest BB of all time IMO, and most other people's. It sounds like you are saying Dorian is the best cuz he admitted he took steroids. Arnold had the mass, cuts and proportions that blow away any of today's guys. Back then, they relied on insane training, dieting, and cycling OFF roids to get in contest shape. Now guys just eat like pigs (burger king, McD's in order to get enough cals to grow), and RELY on steroids for comps. They have Winstrol and diuretics to shred up, and Growth Hormone and so many other mass drugs to get huge.

Yes, Arnold's quads arent as big as todays guys, but many people TODAY argue that guys quads today are too big and take away from the symmetrical, aesthetique look. BB isnt all about just mass you know. Plus his waist was like only 32 in!!!! That's tiny compared to the pregnant, bloated growth hormone stomachs guys today take.

 

[Tha Don]

Originally posted by Flex
What are you trying to say man, i cant understand you. i said Arnold took steroids from age 13, its a fact. and no, there is not overtraining. I can't understand the rest...

i agree with flex there is no such thing as over-training

just under-resting

 

[Rocco32]

So once you start training past the point when your cortisone levels begin to rise and ATP goes down (which is only about 1 hr) and you begin only burning muscle- that's not overtraining? Or are you saying we should catch a nap in there somewhere?

 

[heeholler]

Where can one get Dorian's book? Amazon says it is out of print.

 

[derekisdman]

Originally posted by Flex
And another thing testosterone guy,
If you said who is the best/most popular BB, then you went and contradicted yourself saying Arnold got popular because of movies. Which is it?

And are you kidding me? Arnold was and still is the greatest BB of all time IMO, and most other people's. It sounds like you are saying Dorian is the best cuz he admitted he took steroids. Arnold had the mass, cuts and proportions that blow away any of today's guys. Back then, they relied on insane training, dieting, and cycling OFF roids to get in contest shape. Now guys just eat like pigs (burger king, McD's in order to get enough cals to grow), and RELY on steroids for comps. They have Winstrol and diuretics to shred up, and Growth Hormone and so many other mass drugs to get huge.

Yes, Arnold's quads arent as big as todays guys, but many people TODAY argue that guys quads today are too big and take away from the symmetrical, aesthetique look. BB isnt all about just mass you know. Plus his waist was like only 32 in!!!! That's tiny compared to the pregnant, bloated growth hormone stomachs guys today take.

I agree with everything you said here. It makes me sick to think the pros of today scarf down whoppers and big macs to get big.

 

[Flex]

Originally posted by derekisdman
I agree with everything you said here. It makes me sick to think the pros of today scarf down whoppers and big macs to get big.

Ya man, i've actually heard from a reliable source that Ronnie Coleman actually told people at one of his seminars/guest appearances to eat as much "junk food" as you can in order to grow (Burger king, McD's etc.). Kids hear that and obviously take his word for it when they see his physique. little do they know he spends $1000's/month on juice and he needs tons and tons of extra cals to keep growing. Poor kids gonna end up dissapointed, and even worse, obese...

 

[Dale Mabry]

I would choose neither's training philosophies since there are far more effective methodologies out today. Plus, if you were to restrict yourself to only one particular training methodolgy then you would be severely limiting your ability to achieve success.

 

[Ahsan]

Originally posted by Flex
And another thing testosterone guy,
If you said who is the best/most popular BB, then you went and contradicted yourself saying Arnold got popular because of movies. Which is it?

And are you kidding me? Arnold was and still is the greatest BB of all time IMO, and most other people's. It sounds like you are saying Dorian is the best cuz he admitted he took steroids. Arnold had the mass, cuts and proportions that blow away any of today's guys. Back then, they relied on insane training, dieting, and cycling OFF roids to get in contest shape. Now guys just eat like pigs (burger king, McD's in order to get enough cals to grow), and RELY on steroids for comps. They have Winstrol and diuretics to shred up, and Growth Hormone and so many other mass drugs to get huge.

Yes, Arnold's quads arent as big as todays guys, but many people TODAY argue that guys quads today are too big and take away from the symmetrical, aesthetique look. BB isnt all about just mass you know. Plus his waist was like only 32 in!!!! That's tiny compared to the pregnant, bloated growth hormone stomachs guys today take.



u r wrong dude arnold today isnot the greatest bb today cuz he have 34 in waist dude. now shut ur fuckin asshole.

 

[Ahsan]

i was trying to say that arnold didnot want the young kids to take steroids. therefore he is saying that aal he gained is natural

 

[Testosterone]

I'm not contradicting. I just said, Arnold was more famous by the virtue of his exposure in movies and media.
Physiquewise, Dorian was best, Not Arnold.
And remember, it's all about bodybuilding we're talking about today in this board. Absolutely nothing but The Bodybuilding.
I don't say that Dorian is Best because he admits taking steroids.
I say becaue Dorian is best, because he has the best physique when it comes to bodybuilding.

 

[Testosterone]

Originally posted by Flex
And another thing testosterone guy,
If you said who is the best/most popular BB, then you went and contradicted yourself saying Arnold got popular because of movies. Which is it?

And are you kidding me? Arnold was and still is the greatest BB of all time IMO, and most other people's. It sounds like you are saying Dorian is the best cuz he admitted he took steroids. Arnold had the mass, cuts and proportions that blow away any of today's guys. Back then, they relied on insane training, dieting, and cycling OFF roids to get in contest shape. Now guys just eat like pigs (burger king, McD's in order to get enough cals to grow), and RELY on steroids for comps. They have Winstrol and diuretics to shred up, and Growth Hormone and so many other mass drugs to get huge.

Yes, Arnold's quads arent as big as todays guys, but many people TODAY argue that guys quads today are too big and take away from the symmetrical, aesthetique look. BB isnt all about just mass you know. Plus his waist was like only 32 in!!!! That's tiny compared to the pregnant, bloated growth hormone stomachs guys today take.

I'm not contradicting. I just said, Arnold was more famous by the virtue of his exposure in movies and media.
Physiquewise, Dorian was best, Not Arnold.
And remember, it's all about bodybuilding we're talking about today in this board. Absolutely nothing but The Bodybuilding.
I don't say that Dorian is Best because he admits taking steroids.
I say becaue Dorian is best, because he has the best physique when it comes to bodybuilding.

 

[gr81]

fellas this is all opinion, it is pointless to argue about that shit, its all heresay. you are partial to who ever you were influenced more by, take them bith for what they have done for the sport and let it be.

P.S. hey testosterone, a fellow T-man I presume form your name & AVI, hell ya bro

 

[Flex]

Yes Gr, it is all opinion, there really is no right answer....

First of all, Arnold made BB where it is today. You ever see "Pumping Iron" and all the magazines he was on in the '70's. He made BB ok, and took it out of the dark subculture it was labeled and made it where it is today. Of course his movies made him a world superstar, but way before that he MADE BB.

But, testosterone, Like you said, its all about bodybuilding. So we'lll talk about BB. Arnold has a better physique than Dorian. Dorian is more massive, no doubt about that, he had more juice. But, let's get into the technical aspects of BB, not just sheer size. Arnold's V-taper is 100% better, Dorian sports a huge, blocky waist. Arnold sported a tiny waist. In direct comparison, Arnold's bi's, calves and chest are better. Yes, Dorian has an enormous back which is better, and his legs are not doubt much bigger, but not neccesarily better. Many people argue today that today's mass monsters have quads that take away from the natural proportional, aesthetique physique that is so important to BB, but overlooked nowadays for sheer mass. Plus, Arnold had seperation of his quad muscles that even today few guys achieve. Arnold had almost perfect symmetry and proportion, Dorian was critiqued for too much back compared to chest and too much tris compared to bi's.... Don't get me wrong man, i'm not hatin on Dorian, he's one of my top 5 ever. But you can't compare him to the man who started it all.

And if you wanna generalize it to all of BB, where Arnold doesnt have a fair chance because of all the drugs todays guys take, Ronnie has the best physique ever by far, kills Dorian.

 

[Flex]

and ahsan,
he did openly admit he took steriods. look up the facts, then talk shit. maybe he didnt admit it in his books, because print "lasts forever" and has the biggest "audience", because he doesnt want every kid in the world to take steroids, and they would if he admitted it. he openly admitted on various specials back in the '70's that he took steriods.

when you know what youre talking about and learn to speak english then you can talk shit.