The best preworkout

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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatguts View Post
    "Simple carbs are most of the carbs we eat" Speak for yourself on that one! My diet even while bulking does not have any simple carbs other than cheat meals. I never said to avoid protein, I thought I made that clear and I do not wish to repeat myself. I still need to find a link so you can read science based research regarding the subject. If your personal trainer says protein is the preferred source of fuel than go right ahead fella. As for the OP, 60-90 minutes prior to training eat a carb heavy meal with protein, and if you want a preworkout supp that are many good ones on the market. Be weary of the ones with a bunch of caffeine. No one needs 4-500mgs of caffeine to have a good workout
    I said most of the carbs we eat are simple because the list of simple carbs is huge; anything processed etc. and for complex carbs much shorter list and usually a list that you have to prepare; usually not ready to eat. Of course maybe it has to do with what you consider simple and what you consider complex. Some people consider potatoes a complex carb, I don't, except sweet potato and red potatoes. All the pasta and bread you buy at the store are simple carbs to me those are simple carbs. If you have a store that has whole buckwheat bread; ok that could be complex. What do you consider complex?

    To be clear; for me, 1 hour prior it's protein and complex carbs, right after it's protein, like in a protein shake (easy to absorb) with some carbs. For me the carbs deliver energy for about 30 minutes and then I start running out of gas unless I also had proteins with those carbs.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyGym65 View Post
    Best Pre Workout IMO is mesomorph. That will definitely get you to jump out of bed and sprint to the gym haha.
    Can you share your experience with mesomorph?

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    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    I think you would see an improvement if you add some protein; carbs will be gone long before you finish an hour of work out, the proteins will hang with you longer giving you fuel to burn. And of course you gotta get a bunch of protein in right after you finish too.
    Pre Workout Carbohydrates

    Not that much glucose (carbohydrates) are used in a resistance training program. You have more than enough muscle glycogen to make it through a workout without pre-loading prior to training.

    Carbs (glucose) are NOT gone in a hour; a misconception that continues to be perpetuated.

    That because most resistance training program utilized the Phosphagen Energy System; not glucose.

    Individual in Glycogen Energy Sports are glucose (carbohydrate dependent).

    Endurance Training utilized the Oxidative Energy System; ketones (factored fats) are use to a greater extent.

    Protein Fuel

    Very little protein is utilized for fuel in an hour of resistance training.

    Nor-epinphrine, epinphrine, and cortisol are elevated during training, utilizing glucose and ketones (body fat) for fuel; protecting protein and muscle.

    Acute elevation of cortisol is a good thing. Muscle isn't going to fall off the bone. Chronic cortisol is a huge health issue.

    A Lot of Protein After Training

    Research (Dr Brad Schoenfeld) demonstrated consuming a lot of protein isn't necessary after training.

    All the matter is that you consume enough protein during the day.

    The information that I have presented is easily found online.

    Kenny Croxdale

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    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    I didn't intend to say that you should only eat proteins pre-work out, but that adding proteins would help as the carbs were burnt off. I suppose it's more my experience than any scientific paper; it's what my trainer told me to do and it has worked well. And I'm talking about eating the proteins an hour or so before.
    Science

    Science has demonstrated that the consumption a meal/beverage prior or immediately is not necessary for resistance training.

    Your Trainer

    Is promoting misinformation that is outdated.

    Kenny Croxdale

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    Science

    Science has demonstrated that the consumption a meal/beverage prior or immediately is not necessary for resistance training.

    Your Trainer

    Is promoting misinformation that is outdated.

    Kenny Croxdale
    My experience doesn't agree with your science. Not saying it's all wrong, just that for me this is what works. If you notice, science has a way of changing it's facts on a regular basis; aspartame for example, global warming etc. etc. etc. From what I've seen, science is usually published to promote something or other or to discount something and the grants that make "science" possible are from sources that have an agenda. You want more funding for your "Science" make sure you come up with the results your benefactor wants to see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    My experience doesn't agree with your science.
    Working For You

    Yes, it will work to some degree. However, there is a more effective approach that will elicit a greater response.

    It amount to using a crescent wrench to drive a nail, which will work for you. What is more effective is using a hammer to drive the nail.

    "Not saying your wrong..."

    In other word, you don't have enough knowledge. You should consider making an investment in education yourself.

    As someone once said, "No one every got dumber from reading..."

    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    If you notice, science has a way of changing it's facts on a regular basis; aspartame for example, global warming etc. etc. etc. From what I've seen, science is usually published to promote something or other or to discount something and the grants that make "science" possible are from sources that have an agenda. You want more funding for your "Science" make sure you come up with the results your benefactor wants to see.
    Science is Bullshit,. as per you

    Good to know. I am sure you will lead the way in saving time and money by eliminating science from schools and discussion.

    Reading your reply makes me believe that we are descendents of monkeys.

    No wonder we like bananas.

    Kenny Croxdale

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    Working For You

    Yes, it will work to some degree. However, there is a more effective approach that will elicit a greater response.

    It amount to using a crescent wrench to drive a nail, which will work for you. What is more effective is using a hammer to drive the nail.

    "Not saying your wrong..."

    In other word, you don't have enough knowledge. You should consider making an investment in education yourself.

    As someone once said, "No one every got dumber from reading..."



    Science is Bullshit,. as per you

    Good to know. I am sure you will lead the way in saving time and money by eliminating science from schools and discussion.

    Reading your reply makes me believe that we are descendents of monkeys.

    No wonder we like bananas.

    Kenny Croxdale
    Well Kenny if your one who believes everything you read, then I can see why you think we're all decedents from Monkeys, or maybe not. You every read Darwin "Origin of Species"? Probably not or you won't say such silly things. You want to believe what you want to believe; that's OK with me, as long as you're happy no need to worry about anything different or any reason to change. How old are you? I know you probably think age doesn't matter, but I know it does, as you age you have more and more experience and you have more and more interactions, if you're wise you learn from those, but not everyone is wise and some stubbornly cling to what they "know is true" and never consider any other point of view. You want to believe in the "science" you like, fine with me.

    I never said Science was Bullshit, but if you're dumb enough to think that "science" is not skewed by money you really do have your head in the sand. There is always some truth in any scientific paper, but the trick is; it the paper really the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Those papers are very rare indeed.

    Just make sure you know all the relevant facts and opinions then make up your own mind is what I am saying. I never believe 100% of what I read or hear, read other opinions and I proof it myself and make sure of the agenda of those who published the paper. After all that, I consider my own experiences, rational and logic before I really believe something. But then I'm an old fart so I have a lot more time and experience behind me to learn this and what I know or believe comes from making a lot of mistakes.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    Well Kenny if your one who believes everything you read, then I can see why you think we're all decedents from Monkeys, or maybe not. You every read Darwin "Origin of Species"? Probably not or you won't say such silly things. You want to believe what you want to believe; that's OK with me, as long as you're happy no need to worry about anything different or any reason to change. How old are you? I know you probably think age doesn't matter, but I know it does, as you age you have more and more experience and you have more and more interactions, if you're wise you learn from those, but not everyone is wise and some stubbornly cling to what they "know is true" and never consider any other point of view. You want to believe in the "science" you like, fine with me.

    I never said Science was Bullshit, but if you're dumb enough to think that "science" is not skewed by money you really do have your head in the sand. There is always some truth in any scientific paper, but the trick is; it the paper really the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Those papers are very rare indeed.

    Just make sure you know all the relevant facts and opinions then make up your own mind is what I am saying. I never believe 100% of what I read or hear, read other opinions and I proof it myself and make sure of the agenda of those who published the paper. After all that, I consider my own experiences, rational and logic before I really believe something. But then I'm an old fart so I have a lot more time and experience behind me to learn this and what I know or believe comes from making a lot of mistakes.
    To be honest I gave up on arguing with you and that is why I never posted links. It is comical how Kenny Croxdale laid everything out on a silver platter for you and how did you respond? You compared this topic to global warming? The main reason I am even responding is because I think you are a complete moron. In this last bit of diarrhea you said, "I never believe 100% of what I read or hear". I found this particularly interesting because you are so quick to believe anything your trainer tells you. In addition, I saw another stupid reply from you on a different post. Someone was asking about remedies for hand pain. What was your suggestion? You suggested deca..... You did in fact spell it "decca", but nonetheless you're suggesting drugs right off the bat. Not only that, but I highly doubt you have ever used deca yourself. All in all, the worst advice if that is what you want to call it, comes from "Solidassears". I am sure many people come to this site to learn and some people may not be experienced enough to disregard everything you say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatguts View Post
    To be honest I gave up on arguing with you and that is why I never posted links. It is comical how Kenny Croxdale laid everything out on a silver platter for you and how did you respond? You compared this topic to global warming? The main reason I am even responding is because I think you are a complete moron. In this last bit of diarrhea you said, "I never believe 100% of what I read or hear". I found this particularly interesting because you are so quick to believe anything your trainer tells you. In addition, I saw another stupid reply from you on a different post. Someone was asking about remedies for hand pain. What was your suggestion? You suggested deca..... You did in fact spell it "decca", but nonetheless you're suggesting drugs right off the bat. Not only that, but I highly doubt you have ever used deca yourself. All in all, the worst advice if that is what you want to call it, comes from "Solidassears". I am sure many people come to this site to learn and some people may not be experienced enough to disregard everything you say.
    You're entitled to your opinion and I'm sure you think you know everything there is to know.

    Yeah I spelled deca wrong and what I do and use is something you will never know for sure. But you're real good at personal attacks so go for it Beatguts, I'm sure everyone is waiting with baited breath to hear what you have to say.

    The fact that you're unable to understand two simple well known analogies speaks volumes to your mental abilities. Keep your head buried, it's a good place for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    You're entitled to your opinion and I'm sure you think you know everything there is to know.

    Yeah I spelled deca wrong and what I do and use is something you will never know for sure. But you're real good at personal attacks so go for it Beatguts, I'm sure everyone is waiting with baited breath to hear what you have to say.

    The fact that you're unable to understand two simple well known analogies speaks volumes to your mental abilities. Keep your head buried, it's a good place for it.
    Okay, for starters I certainly do not know everything. I do in fact believe science over broscience. Now, why don't you enlighten me than? First, why would you suggest using deca before examining other possibilities? From the outside looking in, it seems as though you want to be looked at as "cool" on this forum because if you suggest it than you must use. Second, please tell me where money skews the results of exercise science literature? Professors at universities are required to publish in order to retain employment, but I would really like to know how money can skew data. Especially concrete data in regards to exercise science studies. I have done a lot of research in a variety of exercise science and biomechanics studies and I will let you in on a secret since you are uneducated..... The result, discussion, and conclusion portion of scientific literature explains the objective findings, regardless if it supports the original hypothesis.

    Look I get it, you have paid your personal trainer thousands of dollars and it is a hit to your ego when you find out the information he is giving you is incorrect. That is no excuse to be a complete douche bag. Sometimes you just have to take the L.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beatguts View Post
    Okay, for starters I certainly do not know everything. I do in fact believe science over broscience. Now, why don't you enlighten me than? First, why would you suggest using deca before examining other possibilities? From the outside looking in, it seems as though you want to be looked at as "cool" on this forum because if you suggest it than you must use. Second, please tell me where money skews the results of exercise science literature? Professors at universities are required to publish in order to retain employment, but I would really like to know how money can skew data. Especially concrete data in regards to exercise science studies. I have done a lot of research in a variety of exercise science and biomechanics studies and I will let you in on a secret since you are uneducated..... The result, discussion, and conclusion portion of scientific literature explains the objective findings, regardless if it supports the original hypothesis.

    Look I get it, you have paid your personal trainer thousands of dollars and it is a hit to your ego when you find out the information he is giving you is incorrect. That is no excuse to be a complete douche bag. Sometimes you just have to take the L.
    OK first off, I ruptured the tendon that goes from my tricep to my elbow on Dec 24, I was moving furniture and pushing on a china hutch from a bad position and POP! and Pain, I ruptured one of the two tendon bands. When I saw the orthopedic surgeon about it and got an MRI he told me that this is not a common injury and usually happens only to professional athletes or body builders who develop exceptional strong muscles. The reason it happens he said was that we build muscle tissue much faster than we build tendon / ligament tissue etc. He also said that there are drugs that speed collagen production and the process of tendon strengthening and regeneration and tendon strength. Here's an article about it:

    http://roidspharma.blogspot.com/2016/10/increased-collagen-synthesis-by-using.html

    He did not specifically mention Deca, but I had read the same thing about Deca and the article mentions it as effective. As an aside, I had been using Deca with my TRT, but at a level below the doses usually recommended. I've since changed that. To me it made perfect sense that if I need TRT which I do, it would be wise to add Deca. Time will tell as I am scheduled for surgery on Feb 26 to repair the tendon rupture. I plan to keep up the Deca routine and see how the healing and strength rebuild process goes.

    I did not say there was any specific money skewing exercise science, I only pointed out that much of the "Science" we are fed these days is really nothing more than political agenda posturing and I gave two examples; Aspartame and Global Warming. I also said to read everything you can and learn as much as you can and then make your own decisions based on what you know and what you think is correct or true. And don't take any one source as gospel truth until you have vetted it yourself and come to the conclusion it really is true. If you really think that all scientific papers are the truth and nothing but the truth, you have a lot to learn.

    I have no idea how much I have paid the trainer I use, I don't really care, what I care about are the results and with him I have had very good results so yes I tend to believe what he says, because it works for me. I am not saying that you don't know what you're talking about, I have no idea what you have done to vet what you've read and I don't know what results you have to show for following what you follow. I only know for sure what works for me and what my personal experiences have been over the past 66 years.

    It is very difficult for me to believe that the information he has been giving me is false, because it worked. Maybe what you propose works better, maybe the results would have been the same no matter what I did, who knows for sure? I know it has worked for me so I am passing along my experience. If that really bothers you, I don't know what to tell you, don't read my posts I guess.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    Well Kenny if your one who believes everything you read,
    Your Choice Is Ignorance

    You read nothing and apparently learn by osmosis.

    I cross reference articles as well is use practical application to determine a method value.

    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    How old are you? I know you probably think age doesn't matter, but I know it does, as you age you have more and more experience and you have more and more interactions,...
    You Keep Digging Your Hole Deeper

    I am roughly around the same age as you, have a college degree in this area, have written magazine article on this topic, make clinic presentations and have years of
    practical experience. I am easy to find online. You'll even find some of my articles.

    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    I never said Science was Bullshit,...
    Nope, Essentially You Did

    You're paranoid, believing science is skewed and driven by greed.

    One of the few exceptions is your belief and recommendation that all obese individual should have by pass surgery. Why even try to learn to eat correctly and exercise; too much wok and time. Take the easy way out.

    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    I consider my own experiences, rational and logic before I really believe something. But then I'm an old fart so I have a lot more time and experience behind me to learn this and what I know or believe comes from making a lot of mistakes.
    You Continue to Make Mistakes!

    1) You don't have enough practical experience. You are have not adequately nor wisely made a good investment in learning, via research or practical experimentation.

    You have relied on a Personal Training with a sub par knowledge based to guide you.

    2) Your rational and logic are based on misinformation that was believe and promoted to be correct. However, new research and anecdotal data have demonstrated either they are not optimal or that the old research is incorrect.

    Perhaps the foundation on which your knowledge based was built didn't provide you with the "Whole truth and nothing but the truth".

    Summary

    Most of the information that you have you and your Personal Trainer has provide is incorrect.

    Since you are omniscient and not interesting with making an investment of all the down time you have, you've chosen to remain ignorant.

    Kenny Croxdale
    Last edited by Kenny Croxdale; 02-17-2019 at 09:57 AM.

  13. #28
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    I got some helpful stuff through this thread. Thanks Kenny Croxdale & solidassears, Brahs

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    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    He did not specifically mention Deca,
    Deca

    Anabolics increase muscle mass and strength; connective tissue lag behind.

    That is why your doctor didn't specifically mention it.

    Secondly, it is unlikely that a low dose of Deca created your issue. It might have contributed it but that's it.

    Educating Yourself

    This demonstrates your issue on gaining knowledge.

    Rather that do your home work on the front end, you did it on the back end; on you Deca education.

    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    I did not say there was any specific money skewing exercise science, I only pointed out that much of the "Science" we are fed these days is really nothing more than political agenda posturing and I gave two examples;
    Essentially The Same

    Does it really matter if someone lies for money or political gain? The end result is essentially the same.

    Secondly, the majority of reputable research in journals is good information from individual with some type of degree or certification in the field.

    Any individual who lies, taints their reputation. It amount to the body crying, "Wolf, wolf". Once and individual lies, it is hard to believe anything that say.

    Your not lying but you are simple under educated. Your Personal Trainer certainly is behind the times.

    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    I have no idea how much I have paid the trainer
    Too Much

    That's for sure.

    I use, I don't really care, what I care about are the results...

    Novice Lifters

    Anything and everything works for a novice. It almost impossible to screw any training program up.

    Quote Originally Posted by solidassears View Post
    It is very difficult for me to believe that the information he has been giving me is false, because it worked.
    Difficult To Believe

    That due to the fact that you don't invest some of the that vast amout of time you have on educating yourself.

    Kenny Croxdale

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenny Croxdale View Post
    Deca

    Anabolics increase muscle mass and strength; connective tissue lag behind.

    That is why your doctor didn't specifically mention it.

    Secondly, it is unlikely that a low dose of Deca created your issue. It might have contributed it but that's it.

    Educating Yourself

    This demonstrates your issue on gaining knowledge.

    Rather that do your home work on the front end, you did it on the back end; on you Deca education.



    Essentially The Same

    Does it really matter if someone lies for money or political gain? The end result is essentially the same.

    Secondly, the majority of reputable research in journals is good information from individual with some type of degree or certification in the field.

    Any individual who lies, taints their reputation. It amount to the body crying, "Wolf, wolf". Once and individual lies, it is hard to believe anything that say.

    Your not lying but you are simple under educated. Your Personal Trainer certainly is behind the times.



    Too Much

    That's for sure.

    I use, I don't really care, what I care about are the results...

    Novice Lifters

    Anything and everything works for a novice. It almost impossible to screw any training program up.



    Difficult To Believe

    That due to the fact that you don't invest some of the that vast amout of time you have on educating yourself.

    Kenny Croxdale
    You seem to have a real reading comprehension problem, but then I suppose when one knows everything like you do, reading what someone else writes and understanding the meaning really isn't important.

    I wonder how old you are, you talk like a know it all 16 year old. I've had 4 of em, so I kinda know how they talk and think.

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