Atkins Was Obese, Had Heart Disease

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    Atkins Was Obese, Had Heart Disease

    Just so you know what's in store for you if you subscribe to the "Atkins for Life" thing.

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...dical_report_3


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    Actually, the report I saw said his diet was not responsible for his condition when he died, according to his doctor anyway.

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    Right, but independant review says otherwise. That's why it's a news story of significance. I'm sure the doctors who percribed Rush Limbaugh's pain killers would say he had real "pain management" issues.

    Also, his wife didn't permit an autopsy--so the world will never know how clogged his pipes were. It also is a good way to secure the revenue stream.

    And he did have a heart attack that he tried to cover up as something else.

    It's no coincidence that his health condidtions were exactly what science would predict for someone with the risk factors associated with his diet and lack of real exercise.

    The mayor of New York recently had to "take back" an off-mic comment about Atkins being fat.

    Responsible doctors and legitimately trained physicians would never perscribe such a diet, especially for the long-term.

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    There are no long term data on what Atkin's does. No studies were ever carried out beyond six months. So we have no long term data on Atkin's unlike other diets such as the American heart Association diet etc.

    People on Atkin's do lose weight faster (initial fluid loss mostly) and surprisingly, had good cholesterol (lower ldl and high hdl) after a 6 mos study in two studies http://abcnews.go.com/sections/livin...er_031120.html

    However, does this translate to less heart attacks or strokes later is questionable.

    In addition, there is a higher rate of kidney stones, gall stones and gout in those who pursue this diet and are predisposed.

    In Atkin's defense....he was ahead of his time in advocating how we look at our carbohydrate portion. His diet was extreme but the new food pyramid has now incorporated a higher portion of protien than it did previously. In addition, it is a great diet to reduce seizures in those refractory to seizure medicines


    Atkins Diet May Help Prevent Epileptic Seizures in Difficult-to-Treat Patients



    Dec. 10, 2003 (Boston) — Researchers at the Johns Hopkins Children's Center in Baltimore, Maryland, are experimenting with the Atkins diet as a possible regimen to prevent epileptic seizures in patients refractory to other therapeutic regimens.

    Pediatric neurologist Eric H. Kossoff, MD, told Medscape he got the idea from parents who would say, "Like the Atkins diet?" when he told them he wanted to put their children on the ketogenic diet, a more rigorous high-fat, low-carbohydrate diet used as anticonvulsant therapy for intractable patients.

    Both diets mimic starvation, tricking the body into burning fat and producing ketones. "Ketone bodies do something to help reduce epilepsy. Beyond that, we don't know," Dr. Kossoff said here at the 57th annual meeting of the American Epilepsy Society, where he presented a poster on a pilot study of six patients, ages 7 to 52 years.

    Two children achieved 100% seizure control, and in an 18-year-old, seizure activity was reduced by 90%. Two middle-aged adults did not improve, and a 12-year-old patient experienced only a 20% reduction in seizure activity.

    Both seizure-free patients are still on the Atkins diet -- one for 20 months, according to Dr. Kossoff. He said he has since tested the diet in a dozen patients, and is recruiting 20 children for a larger study.

    A big advantage of the Atkins diet is that it is more lenient than the ketogenic diet, which children start in a hospital on a two-day fast, according to Dr. Kossoff. "It is much easier to start," he said. "We can tell them to go to CVS and buy a book."

    The researchers began the children on 10 grams of carbohydrates a day, which is less than the 20 grams usually recommended in the Atkins diet, but more than is recommended in the ketogenic diet. "If they are doing well, we give them more carbs," he said. "If they are not doing well, we take away carbs."

    Some of the children lost weight initially, but later stabilized, according to the Baltimore researcher. One concern is that the high-protein, high-fat combination in the Atkins diet might be more than the kidneys can handle, according to Dr. Kossoff. The only side effect in the pilot study was a slight cholesterol increase in a 42-year-old patient.

    Despite the ubiquity of the Atkins diet, Dr. Kossoff warned against epileptic patients trying it ad hoc. "This is something that should be done under medical supervision," he said. "It is not something that families, parents should be doing on their own."

    This study received no commercial funding.

    AES 57th Annual Meeting: Abstract 2.310. Presented Dec. 9, 2003.

    Reviewed by Gary D. Vogin, MD

    In addition, Dr. Atkin's did have evidence of viral cardiomyopathy and congestive heart failure according to the inner circles of doctors . (Many of whom hate Atkin's out of either jealousy or that he was so successful selling an idea that had not been tested in clinical trials).
    Last edited by bandaidwoman; 02-10-2004 at 01:14 PM.
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    Yes he did have a heart attack. From what exactly, who knows. I don't knock his diet because I know several people who have lost a lot of weight. I tried it and it just was not for me. In the gym, my energy dropped and had little endurance. Then I would feel sluggish for the rest of the day. I switched to eating clean 5-6 times a day (including whey protein shakes) and feel much better. Feels like the weight is coming off (slowly ) but muscle gains have been favorable.

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    An overwheliming amount of research shows that consuming high levels of red meats, sat. fat, and cholesterol has adverse health effects:

    Research has shown consuming high levels of saturated fat, as many Atkins dieters do, may have adverse health consequences.

    Adds Anderson, who discourages his patients from the Atkins diet, "Using the Atkins guidelines long-term will raise cholesterol by 28 percent, whereas a low-fat diet will lower cholesterol by 20 percent."

    Also, Atkins doesn't work in the long-term. This is very recent:

    The new research, published in the New England Journal of Medicine, compares the weight loss of severely obese individuals eating according to Atkins with those eating according to a conventional low-fat, low-calorie nutrition plan.

    The results? While the Atkins dieters slimmed down significantly more than the traditional dieters, there was no weight difference between the groups after one year
    Is giving people hardened arteries and health problems "okay" in the name of "raising carb consicousness?" That's the worst line of reasoning I've ever heard. That's like saying RJ Reynolds should be thanked for raising "celan air consicousness."

    I find it funny that anyone who criticizes Atkins is "jealous," and that a concern for the well-being of others is never identified as a the prime motivator.

    There are tons of ways to lose weight quickly that have adverse health effects. And yes, Atkins is one of them.

    I'm only upset b/c people want an easy, no-sweat way to look like fitness models, and there is no other way to do it and be healthy than to push your metabolism through the roof with exercise. Just look at Atkins himself.

    If Atkins is so wonderful, why don't competitive athletes use it? I ate everything in sight and as many carbs as I could, and through TRAINING, not some cook diet, ran a 1:45 half mile in college. I was sub 5% bodyfat for years. Anyone else could do the same thing, and here's the simple perscription--workout two hours a day. Hard work produces results--Atkins produces revenue for health food companies and heart attacks.

    I also worked with nutrionists on the President's Council of Fitness, including Dr. Charles Kuntzlman who designed the health curriculum for the State of Michigan, and the overwhelming consensus was that Atkins diet is bad news.

    I propose an alternatie explanation--there are more people standing to gain $ by promoting/not slamming Atkins now (including DOCTORS, food , grocery stores, media outlets, etc.), and hence they shy away from critical analysis.

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    Most doctors hate Atkins for the very reason we all have specified which is that no long term studies have been done despite quick results. And may I stress that noone, especially doctors, make any profit from advocating atkins, only the Atkin's institute. But the research is still out and conflicting studies depend on the patient population studied. For those with syndrome X or type II diabetes, an Atkin's like diet may be good :

    In a head-to-head comparison between two popular and distinctly different eating plans, the Atkins diet trimmed significantly more pounds and body fat in obese but otherwise healthy women than a traditional low-fat diet, according to a report released last week at the annual meeting of the American Dietetics Association.

    The study enrolled 53 women, aged 31 to 59, for six months. Half followed a low-fat approach, eating 30 percent of calories from fat. The other half ate according to the very-low-carbohydrate diet popularized by physican Robert Atkins.

    Those in the Atkins group shed on average 18.5 pounds -- about 10 of it from body fat. (The rest was due to loss of water and lean muscle.) By comparison, the low-fat group lost about nine pounds, about five of them from body fat.

    Despite the results, the study's lead author cautioned against drawing too many conclusions or abandoning a low-fat approach to weight loss. "I'm not sure that there is a take-home message from this study, except that there is more research needed," said registered dietitian Bonnie Brehm, assistant professor in the College of Nursing at the University of Cincinnati. "This is one, relatively short-term study. Our conclusions are that in the short term, a low-carbohydrate diet produces loss of weight and body fat. . . . We by no means are recommending the Atkins diet from this one study."
    I personally like the Zone diet and the South beach diet.

    In the long run, the Atkin's diet incorporates foods that are known cancer risks (especially colon cancer which is associated with high fat foods and meat) so for this reason, it should not be advocated long term even if the cardiac studies may surprise us.
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    Originally posted by derekisdman
    Don't try to argue with bandaid woman, you won't win.

    I didn't think we were arguing, and Brodus brings up great points that make most in the medical community skeptical of the Atkins, including myself.
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    It is not true to imply that the Atkins Institute is the sole beneficiary and that doctors don't stand to gain anything from endorsements. There are plenty of crooked docs who will support any product or endorse any supplement available. Many of theses people are piggybacking the Atkins craze to get their free lunch ticket.

    An entire BRAND CULTURE has developed around Atkins, and people are making money hand over fist. It goes both ways. Just look at all of atkins and "low-carb" products on the market. Hell, they've even inked a deal with Subway. Everywhere I look I see the Atkins logo. That means $, $, $. Many, many people are banking on this--it extends far beyond the Atkins Institute. Even Beer companies--they hope you're too dumb to know that light beers already are low-carb, and that beer isn't exactly diet-friendly.

    This is what I refer to when I say that there are a ton of people who stand to gain a lot by down-playing the risks of Atkins.

    Do you know why they call it "The Atkins Institute?" It's because no real health insitute will support their claims, nor will any major University with a background in exercise physiology and nutrition.

    I just wonder how many Olympic athletes eat Atkins or any other fad diet....I can confidently say probably NONE. I have worked out with a man who held the world record for the fastest mile (Jim Ryan--he went sub-4:00 in HIGH SCHOOL). I also worked with a true fitness and nutrition expert who was on the President's Council of Fitness and close friends with Arnold Shw. (Dr. Charles Kuntzleman http://www.kines.umich.edu/facstaff/kuntzleman.htm). From my experience, people in peak physical condition worry about training first and carb-counting last, if at all. Ketosis is not an athlete's friend.

    I appreceiate that people have experienced weight loss and there are some who enjoy Atkins. I just get upset because people think they're going to look ripped and buff just by replacing bread with steak, and that's impossible and unhealthy. I thought this was common knowledge.

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    Yes, we're not arguing! I love a good debate.

    I don't want to come off sounding angry!

    I am just very skeptical of things, especially when I see the logo EVERYWHERE! It drives me nuts.

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    I do know long distance athletes do not fare too well on the atkins.

    T he ones who really do best are the most sedate ones who rarely get much excercise in.

    However, some of them are smart enough to use the Atkins as a jump start to lose 20 pounds so their athritic joints can handle the load of weight bearing exercises and they go to a more modified version (more like the zone) and start increasing the excercise workouts. I've seen patients use this in a temporary fashion and it has worked well for them.
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    Anyway, I will pick apart your statement for you. This si in no way an attack, just letting you know the facts.


    Originally posted by brodus
    An overwheliming amount of research shows that consuming high levels of red meats, sat. fat, and cholesterol has adverse health effects:

    Their methodology is flawed...


    Also, Atkins doesn't work in the long-term. This is very recent:

    They dropped weight, therefore it WAS effective, maybe not more so than the other ideters, but it was effective. Also, this never looked at HDL and other indices of health, just weight. It also did not look at the difference between LBM and total mass.

    Is giving people hardened arteries and health problems "okay" in the name of "raising carb consicousness?" That's the worst line of reasoning I've ever heard. That's like saying RJ Reynolds should be thanked for raising "celan air consicousness."

    See above regarding Research methodology, these claims are baseless. You cannot argue one minute that there is a lack of evidence supporting Atkins' methods and then say there are long-term effects from the diet. Bandaid woman hit it right on the head, there is no long-term studies on the Atkins diet to state for a certain fact that it will cause any of the afforementioned problems just as there is no way to say it helps out these issues.

    I'm only upset b/c people want an easy, no-sweat way to look like fitness models, and there is no other way to do it and be healthy than to push your metabolism through the roof with exercise. Just look at Atkins himself.

    Couldn't agree with you more about b=people wanting an easy way out, but who cares about Atkins personal health. Even if he was unhealthy, we are all making the assumption that Atkins ate according to his diet. I have never seen a single article stating that he followed this diet.

    If Atkins is so wonderful, why don't competitive athletes use it? I ate everything in sight and as many carbs as I could, and through TRAINING, not some cook diet, ran a 1:45 half mile in college. I was sub 5% bodyfat for years. Anyone else could do the same thing, and here's the simple perscription--workout two hours a day. Hard work produces results--Atkins produces revenue for health food companies and heart attacks.

    This diet is not geared toward professional athletes, it is geared to overweight people trying to lose weight. These are 2 different populations and, thus, cannot be compared.

    I also worked with nutrionists on the President's Council of Fitness, including Dr. Charles Kuntzlman who designed the health curriculum for the State of Michigan, and the overwhelming consensus was that Atkins diet is bad news.

    Is this the same President's council on fitness that pushed the old food pyramid for years? Do they have any clinical evidence to support this "finding"?

    I propose an alternatie explanation--there are more people standing to gain $ by promoting/not slamming Atkins now (including DOCTORS, food , grocery stores, media outlets, etc.), and hence they shy away from critical analysis.
    The only people that stand to make $ from this diet is the Atkins folks. I can make a Low carb bar and call it just that, a low carb bar. Atkins does not hold any type of patent on the term "low carb", but he does on his little symbol that pops up everywhere. If Subway decides they want their food to carry that symbol, that is their choice.

    By the way, I don't follow an Atkins diet and never will. I just think the folks that are slamming it are either misinformed or backstepping for decades of poor research. It has it's merits and will continue to evolve.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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    The PCRM that published that Report is fake

    Hey guys.. I haven't read through all the arguments in your debate, but in case you haven't got to it I thought I'd bring this to your attention:
    PCRM Just A Front

    It turns out the PCRM (Physicians Committee For Responsible Medicine) who published this original report about Atkins being obese is a fake organization. It's just a front for the PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals).

    It's all a part of their campaign to turn Americans into Vegetarians.

    Atkins went into hospital at 180-190 pounds (he was over 6 feet tall) but ballooned to the 258 while in a coma before he died.

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