American Censorship In Iraq

[Big Smoothy]

Fighting for "freedom" in Iraq? Not at all.

I sure hope the Americans get their asses kicked in Iraq. The more Fallujas that happen the better.

Woman loses her job over coffins photo

By Hal Bernton
Seattle Times staff reporter


TAMI SILICIO
Flag-draped coffins are shown inside a cargo plane April 7 at Kuwait International Airport, in a photograph published Sunday. The photographer said she hoped the image would help families understand the care with which fallen soldiers are returned home.

A military contractor has fired Tami Silicio, a Kuwait-based cargo
worker whose photograph of flag-draped coffins of fallen U.S.
soldiers was published in Sunday's edition of The Seattle Times.

Silicio was let go yesterday for violating U.S. government and
company regulations, said William Silva, president of Maytag
Aircraft, the contractor that employed Silicio at Kuwait
International Airport.

"I feel like I was hit in the chest with a steel bar and got my wind
knocked out. I have to admit I liked my job, and I liked what I did," Silicio said.

Her photograph, taken earlier this month, shows more than 20
flag-draped coffins in a cargo plane about to depart from Kuwait.
Since 1991, the Pentagon has banned the media from taking pictures of caskets being returned to the United States.

That policy has been a lightning rod for debate, and Silicio's
photograph was quickly posted on numerous Internet sites and became the subject of many Web conversations. Times Executive Editor Michael R. Fancher yesterday appeared on ABC's "Good Morning America" news show with U.S. Rep. Mike Castle, R-Del., who supported the Pentagon policy prohibiting such pictures.

As a result of the broader coverage, The Times received numerous
e-mails and phone calls from across the country ??? most of which
supported the newspaper's decision.

Pentagon officials yesterday said the government's policy defers to the sensitivities of bereaved families. "We've made sure that all of the installations who are involved with the transfer of remains were aware that we do not allow any media coverage of any of the stops until (the casket) reaches its final destination," said Cynthia Colin, a Pentagon spokeswoman.

Tami Silicio's photo fueled a debate over a U.S. policy on casket
images.

Maytag also fired David Landry, a co-worker who recently wed Silicio.

Silicio said she never sought to put herself in the public spotlight.
Instead, she said, she hoped the publication of the photo would help families of fallen soldiers understand the care and devotion that civilians and military crews dedicate to the task of returning the soldiers home.

"It wasn't my intent to lose my job or become famous or anything," Silicio said.

The Times received Silicio's photograph from a stateside friend, Amy Katz, who had previously worked with Silicio for a different
contractor in Kosovo. Silicio then gave The Times permission to
publish it, without compensation. It was paired with an article about her work in Kuwait.

Silicio, 50, is from Edmonds and previously worked as an events
decorator in the Seattle area and as a truck driver in Kosovo. Before the war started, she went to work for Maytag, which contracts with the Air Mobility Command to provide air-terminal and ground-handling services in Kuwait.

In Kuwait, Silicio pulled 12-hour night shifts alongside military
workers to help in the huge effort to resupply U.S. troops. These
workers also helped transport the remains of soldiers back to the
United States.

Her job put her in contact with soldiers who sometimes accompanied the coffins to the airport. Having lost one of her own sons to a brain tumor, Silicio said, she tried to offer support to those grieving over a lost comrade.

"It kind of helps me to know what these mothers are going through, and I try to watch over their children as they head home," she said in an earlier interview.

Since Sunday, Silicio has hunkered down in Kuwait as her employer and the military decided her fate.

Maytag's Silva said the decision to terminate Silicio's and Landry's
employment was made by the company. But he said the U.S. military had identified "very specific concerns" about their actions. Silva declined to detail those concerns.

"They were good workers, and we were sorry to lose them," Silva said. "They did a good job out in Kuwait and it was an important job that they did."

Landry, in an e-mail to The Times, said he was proud of his wife, and that they would soon return home to the States.

 

[Rob_NC]

It just happens that she is an American and she broke the rules. Her punishment is just cause.

 

[DFINEST]

Originally posted by Rob_NC
It just happens that she is an American and she broke the rules. Her punishment is just cause.

Bovine Scatology (B.S.)

A picture of Flag Draped Coffins, there is no Identifying
feature on a flag draped coffin....

If you can publish the numbers of troops killed over there,
then let the photo of the flag draped coffins confirm it.

 

[ALBOB]

Some moron decided to take long standing and well established rules and throw them out the window because she thinks she knows what's good for the world. Yeah, that justifies wanting more young American men and women to die.

DFINEST: I don't necessarily agree the punishment fit the crime but the fact still remains, she broke the rules. The rules were made to protect the dignity of the fallen soldiers and their families. I understnad she THOUGHT she was doing the families a favor, that's why I question her firing but again, it wasn't her decision to make and she knew it. (Yes she did know it. All people involved in a "conflict", whether they be military or civilian contractors, have to sign an agreement stating they understand the do's and don'ts of the conflict. )

 

[DFINEST]

Albob, you're ABSOLUTELY right with your points
BUT I have seen dozens of photos with servicemembers
carrying BODY BAGS containing
the remains of fallen servicemembers...

Where was the Pentagon's sensitivity in regards to
those photo's

 

[Dale Mabry]

Break the rules, you pay the price. IMO, that is one of the most retarded rules I have ever heard of. Did we not see Sadaam's sons pictures taken while they were dead. The only real reason they do not want the pics taken is because they don't want the reality of the war to come out.

 

[Rob_NC]

There happens to be a poll at Foxnews.com that asks if these photos should be published. The majority of voters indicate they should as they're part of war.

 

[ALBOB]

Originally posted by DFINEST
Albob, you're ABSOLUTELY right with your points
BUT I have seen dozens of photos with servicemembers
carrying BODY BAGS containing
the remains of fallen servicemembers...

And that's one of the main reasons I disagree with these particular rules, they're not consistant. (On a side not, it's not the evforcement that's inconsistant, it's the rules themselves. They change with evey conflict. I think it's a dumb approach, but it's the rules and if you wanna play, you gotta play by the rules.)

Yep Dale, propaganda is one of the most powerful tools used in any conflict. We don't want the world to see our casualties but we exploit the casualties of our enemies............................to some extent. The Hussein brothers were used as a propaganda tool to show the Iraqi people we were there to do a job and wouldn't leave until the job was done. (Leaving before the job was done was the #1 mistake of the first Gulf War.) Believe it or not, I partially agree with your statement about us not wanting to televise the realities of war, but I understand WHY. It undermines morale both at home and in the field. We're all adults and we all understand that our leaders are going to do whatever they can to win whatever fight they're in. Sometimes I agree with their approach, sometimes I don't. Call me naieve but I still believe that, in the long run, they have our countrie's best interest in mind. Also, back to my original post in this thread, I find it vey hard to fathom wishing the deaths of young men and women for something as silly as this woman losing her job for breaking the rules. Where the hell does THAT come from?

 

[maniclion]

I am for freedom of the press, but she was not a member of the press and she more than likely had a secret or higher security clearance meaning she has done something that violates the trust the U.S. gov. put in her. Posting the numbers of our casualties doesn't have the same morale boosting impact on our enemy as a visual confirmation that 20+ flag draped coffin's would have. I had a Top Secret security clearnce, how about if I had taken some photos of the communications equipment I used to show the nation what kind of equipment their son's and daughters were relying on. Then the photo's fall into enemy hands and they know what kind of frequency ranges they need to start scanning to intercept/block our signals.

 

[Stickboy]

I sure hope the Americans get their asses kicked in Iraq. The more Fallujas that happen the better.

If you live in this country, get your ass out.

This is your second posts in which you have stated something like this. Your problem is with the government, but you continue to state that you would like to see American soldiers killed.

Amazing.

 

[Big Smoothy]

I don't live in America, sh*thead.

And futhermore, I have every right to criticize the actions of my government, which I don't agree with.

The entire 'support the troops' movement is a charade, propagated by none other than....the Pentagona and the Bush Administration.

If you want to be a sheep that follows the herd, that's your choice.

 

[BUSTINOUT]

Originally posted by Mr_Snafu

And futhermore, I have every right to criticize the actions of my government, which I don't agree with.

Then you're in the clear, because your gov't don't do shit. You gotta lotta damn nerve you pussy. No wonder most everone here in the states thinks you guys are pussies. lol For someone in a country that has such a great quality of tolerance, accepting of others, and for the most part peaceful, to wish for the death of more US troops, I would have to say that you are a worthless peace of crap and this board and planet would be a much better place without you.

 

[I'm Trying]

Originally posted by Mr_Snafu
I don't live in America, sh*thead.

And futhermore, I have every right to criticize the actions of my government, which I don't agree with.

The entire 'support the troops' movement is a charade, propagated by none other than....the Pentagona and the Bush Administration.

If you want to be a sheep that follows the herd, that's your choice.

Then where in the hell do you live at then??

 

[Big Smoothy]

Originally posted by BUSTINOUT
to wish for the death of more US troops, I would have to say that you are a worthless peace of crap....

I have never said I wanted American soldiers injured or killed. I want the military and political objectives to be defeated.

I feel out soldiers in Iraq are getting the short end of the stick.

I should have clarified that.

Iraq is a mess. What did Osama Bin Lauden mean when he constatly stated "80 Years of Humiliation?"

The troops are doing the dirty work for the U.S. government and U.S. corporations. They should be home. The should not be used as small pawns in the big chase that they are being used for now.

Support or opposition for the Iraq campaign has no relation to someone's partriotism or lack thereof.

 

[Big Smoothy]

Originally posted by I'm Trying
Then where in the hell do you live at then??

In general, Earth.

In particular, Vietnam.

 

[Stickboy]

Viet Nam?

You claim to live there, but say that you have the right to criticize YOUR government. I assume you are American? Would that be correct?

Last thing we need is another jackass.

Do us a favor.....don't come back.

 

[Big Smoothy]

Originally posted by Stickboy
Viet Nam?

You claim to live there, but say that you have the right to criticize YOUR government. I assume you are American? Would that be correct?

Stickboy I don't understand your statement. I am an American citizen. I vote in American elections via absentee ballot.

Where one lives is NOT important.

I pay taxes, just like you.

The world is global.

I am just wanting to have a discussion. Nothing more, nothing less. I am not anti-American. I love my country more than you'll ever know. But if I disagree with something I'll exercise the most imortant right you and I have--the freedom of speech, and the freedom to go to the ballot box.

I don't like fighting and arguments. I am not a troll. I just want folks who are interested in this topic, to read, and add their opinion, if they want.

Why is having a logical, unemotional discussion about the current course of events disturbing a few here. It shouldn't.

I just wrote an article under my real name, stating more reasons why Iraq is a disaster for the War on T....in fact, Iraq has nothing to do with the War on T. It will be published.

Discussion is important. Let's not make things personal.

The more we discuss, the more we think, the more we look at a particular situation with more open-eyes.

I stand to be corrected, am not perfect, and have a lot to learn myself. But most people have very strong preconceived notions, and hold them dear. When someone contradicts their beliefs, they get nasty and abusive.

It isn't necesarry.

 

[Big Smoothy]

Not surprising that people cannot debate a topic, but instead hurl insults, vulgarities, sound bytes, and one-liners.

No facts. No statistics. No knowlege of the current situation.

People just say, "go home, don't come back, you are crap."

That is because....the truth hurts, and bellicose people have to use fallacious defense mechanisms called "patriotism," and "freedom." Neither of which are relevant to the Iraq campaign.

As Hitler said, "if you tell a great lie, and repeat it, over and over, the masses will believe it."

 

[OceanDude]

Originally posted by Mr_Snafu
Fighting for "freedom" in Iraq? Not at all.

I sure hope the Americans get their asses kicked in Iraq. The more Fallujas that happen the better.

I sure hope that you have the occassion to speak that opinion face to face with a soldier or one of their family. You are a disgrace to humanity for having such a cavalier attitude about suffering and trying to incite emotions. What constructive thing do you hope to attain in making such a moronic statement? Do you really think you have any credibility with anyone here?

OD

 

[OceanDude]

Ignore him guys. This nerd is attention starved and makes idiotic and inflammatory statements to get a response. The more you respond the more it encourages the twerp. He thinks your responses make him relevant and give him feelings of power. People such as he sit in the shadows of society benefiting from the sacrifices of others and fantasize about being relevant to the world. Nature will vomit the likes of him from the cesspools of his own putrid existence soon enough; assuming he does not end up blowing his own brains out someday to deny nature that justice.

Throwing the gauntlet with severe prejudice.
-OD

 

[kbm8795]

It's interesting to ponder how the rhetorical extremities of conservatism becomes fascism.

 

[kbm8795]

Originally posted by ALBOB
And that's one of the main reasons I disagree with these particular rules, they're not consistant. (On a side not, it's not the evforcement that's inconsistant, it's the rules themselves. They change with evey conflict. I think it's a dumb approach, but it's the rules and if you wanna play, you gotta play by the rules.)

Yep Dale, propaganda is one of the most powerful tools used in any conflict. We don't want the world to see our casualties but we exploit the casualties of our enemies............................to some extent. The Hussein brothers were used as a propaganda tool to show the Iraqi people we were there to do a job and wouldn't leave until the job was done. (Leaving before the job was done was the #1 mistake of the first Gulf War.) Believe it or not, I partially agree with your statement about us not wanting to televise the realities of war, but I understand WHY. It undermines morale both at home and in the field. We're all adults and we all understand that our leaders are going to do whatever they can to win whatever fight they're in. Sometimes I agree with their approach, sometimes I don't. Call me naieve but I still believe that, in the long run, they have our countrie's best interest in mind. Also, back to my original post in this thread, I find it vey hard to fathom wishing the deaths of young men and women for something as silly as this woman losing her job for breaking the rules. Where the hell does THAT come from?

I agree with you to some extent. And I think in the contractor who was fired, the justification should have been more related to violating provisions in the contract by giving photographs to the media. She wasn't there functioning as a member of the press, either as an American or as part of the press corps of another country.

On the other hand, I think there are too many situations in which the Pentagon needs to look at how censorship rules actually affect morale. A photograph of coffins might be disturbing, but it isn't as disturbing as a photograph of bodies blown apart. In some ways, the contractor was right that the picture showed how much care is taken with our citizens who have fallen - especially when you could see how perfectly draped the flags were over the coffins and how neatly they were lined up on the plane. Someone spent a lot of time being very careful and respectful with those bodies.

But sometimes, when we enforce decisions based on perceptions of how morale can be affected, it can cushion the population too much from the realities of what our soldiers experience. If we only show marching formations, for example, then when troops return home, people get confused when a veteran suffers from stress syndrome or combat-related problems. It becomes more difficult for the buffered population to understand because we have no images to even remotely relate to about their experience; all we know is that it looks like it was a fairly easy operation with a few hundred lives lost.

The Soviets used that approach when they occupied Afghanistan and one reason they failed was because the government-controlled media didn't show any images of the hardship in that war, which eventually fed anti-war sentiment among the population as the death toll mounted and people started distrusting the government's intention.

While we have some interest in keeping resolve high among the American people, it's also important to make sure they feel as if information is not too secretive. We don't have a generation that was as cushioned from depictions of violence and bloodshed as Americans were in the 1940's. . .people today see a disgruntled client shooting at an attorney outside a courthouse, visions of people jumping from the windows of the World Trade Center, local stories that show a woman jumping to her death from a burning building.

The images can be horrific, but can also feed our resolve to see the situation through - a picture of a woman jumping from a burning building can make people demand better fire codes or equipment for the fire department.

Because those soldiers represent our country, every one of those losses is something for everyone to grieve - obviously, no one wants anyone to have to make that ultimate sacrifice. And I think that image of those coffins brings that reality into better focus than just publishing numbers.

On the other hand, I would have agreed with the President and the Pentagon if those coffins had been opened or identified with names - in that case, the privacy and dignity of those families would have been violated.

 

[ALBOB]

Originally posted by Mr_Snafu
I have never said I wanted American soldiers injured or killed.

Wrong again shithead. Check the "Politics" thread.

Originally posted by Mr_Snafu
I vote Libertarian.

Americans in Iraq are setting the stage for American corporations.

The U.S. government is eroding liberties with the Patriot Act I and II, and the Total Information Awareness Act.

If higher U.S. casualties will hurt baby Bush in the next eletion, I say, let's keep the bodies bags coming home.

 

[Mudge]

Originally posted by Mr_Snafu
The troops are doing the dirty work for the U.S. government

That is what a soldier is, a pawn. I really want to use expletives here because I can't believe you said that as if it was some new pratice. A soldier is a person who by their design carries out the wishes of those commanding him or her, i.e. a PAWN just like you said.

Of COURSE war is dirty, they aren't throwing f#cking snow cones at each other.

 

[gr81]

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
Break the rules, you pay the price. IMO, that is one of the most retarded rules I have ever heard of. Did we not see Sadaam's sons pictures taken while they were dead. The only real reason they do not want the pics taken is because they don't want the reality of the war to come out.
couldn't agree more

Originally posted by Mr_Snafu
I have never said I wanted American soldiers injured or killed. I want the military and political objectives to be defeated.

I feel out soldiers in Iraq are getting the short end of the stick.

I should have clarified that.

Iraq is a mess. What did Osama Bin Lauden mean when he constatly stated "80 Years of Humiliation?"

The troops are doing the dirty work for the U.S. government and U.S. corporations. They should be home. The should not be used as small pawns in the big chase that they are being used for now.

Support or opposition for the Iraq campaign has no relation to someone's partriotism or lack thereof.
couldn't agree more

Originally posted by Mr_Snafu
I stand to be corrected, am not perfect, and have a lot to learn myself. But most people have very strong preconceived notions, and hold them dear. When someone contradicts their beliefs, they get nasty and abusive.

It isn't necesarry.
couldn't agree more

 

[gr81]

Originally posted by OceanDude
Ignore him guys. This nerd is attention starved and makes idiotic and inflammatory statements to get a response. The more you respond the more it encourages the twerp. He thinks your responses make him relevant and give him feelings of power. People such as he sit in the shadows of society benefiting from the sacrifices of others and fantasize about being relevant to the world. Nature will vomit the likes of him from the cesspools of his own putrid existence soon enough; assuming he does not end up blowing his own brains out someday to deny nature that justice.

Throwing the gauntlet with severe prejudice.
-OD

wow ocean dude, you are so smart the rest of us just can't even begin to fathom what that is like. we should just stop having our own opinions RIGHT NOW and just listen to YOU from now on, otherwise our putrid existense will be vomited from cesspools for gods sake! check your pm box often, b/c whenever I have a thought, I am first gonna run it by you to see if it is correct, ok!

god you are a judgemental piece of shit, what makes his opinions any less valid then yours? for someone who claims to be so fuckin smart, its funny that you don't realize how ignorant these posts make you look! ponder that bitch, and have a nice day

 

[OceanDude]

Originally posted by gr81
...god you are a judgemental piece of shit, what makes his opinions any less valid then yours?

Oh Great one, it is so comforting to see that you are still the consistent hypocrite you have always been. I shall not waste much of my time with you here but need to stoop to the gutter briefly to point out that you just exhibited a worthy specimen of judgmental excrement that is at the extreme limit of your capacity to even fathom. Quit chasing your tail son and see how you just judged me. But I have been down this path of folly with you before and know that your niggardly portion of reason was not given and received easily. I blame your momma. If only instead she had farted on that fateful day you were born we would not have so much graffiti masquerading as art to cope with. But the gutter does need its inspiration too and even dogs need a place worthy to defecate and mark as their own territory. And from the smell and clamor of things you have found another master to defend. Go fetch.

-OD

 

[Big Smoothy]

I don't think I'm a "twerp," or a person who lives outside of society. I am just a regular guy who has an opinion. Most of my views are probably in line with most folks, but not when it comes to the Iraq charade. It's the only issue that gets me hot. We all have are opinions. But I don't understand how so many Americans are not seeing this issue from more than one perspective.

 

[ZECH]

Originally posted by Mr_Snafu
I don't think I'm a "twerp," or a person who lives outside of society. I am just a regular guy who has an opinion. Most of my views are probably in line with most folks, but not when it comes to the Iraq charade. It's the only issue that gets me hot. We all have are opinions. But I don't understand how so many Americans are not seeing this issue from more than one perspective.

What is there to understand? America took out a dictator to make the world a safer place. Everyone benefits. Now we have the task of setting up Iraq to govern itself without falling. Soldiers CHOOSE to do what the are doing. They are not there agaisnt their will. Look at what Pat Tillman gave up!!!!!!!!!! Probably one of the bravest men who ever lived! Just to be able and serve his country. His father and grandfather served and he wanted to give something back also. It just happened to be his life he gave!

 

[Big Smoothy]

^ Pat Tillman was a caring brave person who decided to do what he did. And yes, the young enlisted kids did the same thing when they joined the military. We cannot predict the future. What will happen next year? We don't know.

But if military action is taken and the reasons are not clear we need to ask the serious questions.

People are talking about the recent fatalities. But there are hundreds of more permanent brain, eye, and disabling injuries happening to the Americans in Iraq.

Hussein was a brutal and masochistic dictator. No question about that. Is the world safer no? I think it is now more dangerous. For Iraqis, the Middle East, and Americans.

Who will benefit in Iraq? Not the G.I.s....