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  1. #1
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    Sixteen cups of antelope gelatin

    In case youre wondering, this journal is titled so simply to make it easy to find.

    My last journal lasted just a couple days, because i really wasnt ready to start one - i hadnt thought out my bulking strategy very well. Thanks to TP for saying as much.

    Anyway, here we go again...

    Diet will be a kinda/sorta/bastardized version of carb cycling, with high carb days on each training day, and a low or no carb day on my off days (depending on how fat i look). As usual, i probably wont be eating much beyond chicken, brown rice, and apples.

    One notable exception is that i'll be using a during-w/o shake, likely ~60g protein and ~150g sugar. I'm thinking something like 60% dex, 30% malto, 10% fructose. I'm really only doing this because of the long duration of these w/o's. I'll probably just have some low GI shit when i get back from the gym, maybe another 20-30g of protein.

    The routine... this is what changed A LOT from a week ago. I had planned on just whinging it in the gym, but was convinced otherwise. So, the first thing that popped up in my search for a better, yet not completely sadistic routine was Lyle's version of periodization. If you're interested, he wrote 3 articles about it for Mind and Muscle, and there's a few threads on it at bodyrecomposition.com (his site).

    So, here's what i'll be doing for 4-6 weeks:

    Scheduled as: Chest/Back/Grip, Hams/Quads/Calves, OFF, Shoulders/Biceps/Triceps/Abs, OFF. Repeat.

    Emphasis will be on Chest, quads, and biceps. Everything else will be at maintenance. This first mesocycle is going to be with strength as the primary goal, probably aiming for 6 weeks.

    Day 1 (A) - Chest emphasis, back/grip maintenance:
    Decline BB press - 5 sets, 1-3 reps, 4-5 minute rest, 3/0/x tempo
    Reverse BB row - 2 sets, 6-8 reps, 2-3 minute rest, 3/0/1 tempo
    Incline DB press - 4 sets, 1-3 reps, 3-4 minute rest, 3/0/x tempo
    Pulldowns - 2 sets, 10-12 reps, 1-2 minute rest, 3/0/2 tempo
    Flat DB press - 1 set, 12-15 reps, 1-2 minute rest, 3/0/2 tempo
    CG cable row - 1 set, timed: 60-120s, 1 minute rest, 2/0/2 tempo
    Reverse BB wrist curl - 2 sets, 4-6 reps, 2-3 minute rest, 3/0/x tempo
    TOTAL: 17 sets, ~1.5 hours (without supersets)


    Day 2 (B) - Quad emphasis, ham/calf/ab maintenance:
    Squats - 8 sets, 1-3 reps, 4-5 minute rest, 3/0/x tempo
    SLDL - 2 sets, 6-8 reps, 2-3 minute rest, 3/0/1 tempo
    Leg press - 3 sets, 10-12 reps, 1-2 minute rest, 3/0/2 tempo
    Lying leg curl - 1 set, 10-12 reps, 1-2 minute rest, 3/0/2 tempo
    Seated leg curl - 1 set, timed: 60-120s, 1 minute rest, 2/0/2 tempo
    Standing calf raise - 3 sets, 6-8 reps, 1-2 minute rest, 3/0/2 tempo
    Standing calf raise - 1 set, timed: 60-120s, 1 minute rest, 2/0/2 tempo
    TOTAL: 19 sets, ~1.75 hours (without supersets)


    Day 3 - OFF


    Day 4 (C) - Bicep emphasis, shoulders/triceps maintenance:
    Barbell curl - 4 sets, 1-4 reps, 4-5 minute rest, 2/0/x tempo
    Seated BB mil press - 3 sets, 4-6 reps, 2-3 minute rest, 4/0/1 tempo
    Cam bar preacher curls - 2 sets, 1-4 reps, 4-5 minute rest, 2/0/x tempo
    Hammer machine mil press - 1 set, timed: 60-120s, 1 minute rest, 2/0/2 tempo
    Cable curl - 1 set, 10-15 reps, 1-2 minute rest, 3/0/2 tempo
    Decline CG bb press - 2 sets, 6-8 reps, 1-2 minute rest, 3/0/2 tempo
    Pushdowns - 1 set, timed: 60-120s, 1 minute rest, 2/0/2 tempo
    Decline situps - 2 sets, 4-6 reps, 2-3 minute rest, 4/0/1 tempo
    Cable crunch - 2 sets, 6-8 reps, 1-2 minute rest, 3/0/2 tempo
    TOTAL: 18 sets, ~1.5 hours (without supersets)


    Day 5 - OFF
    Last edited by Monolith; 09-25-2004 at 02:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    Interesting. What exactly constitutes 'gelatin'?
    P-side Inc.

    "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

  3. #3
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    My stats...

    20, male, guesstimated bodyfat is around 15%. This will be my first ever intelligent consumption of excess calories. Mmm, how i will miss you, Detour.

    Measurements for 9/20:
    Stomach - 38"
    Right arm - 16"
    Left arm - 16"
    Right quad - 25"
    Left quad - 25"
    Neck - 15.75"
    BW - 219.5lbs

    Those are somewhat rough, i was in a hurry when i took them last monday. I'll be taking stats every saturday morning (missed todays). I'll be trying to get pics of myself, too... although thankfully i wont subject any readers to that grotesque imagery.
    Last edited by Monolith; 09-25-2004 at 02:05 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PreMier
    Interesting. What exactly constitutes 'gelatin'?

  5. #5
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    The supplements/drugs...

    Multi vit, extra calcium, extra magnesium, extra vit C, extra B complex.
    300mg bupropion (wellbutrin) ED
    150mg venlafaxine (effexor) ED
    20-30mg adderall 3x day
    50-60mg dextromethorphan (DXM) 1x night (not dosed concurrently with adderall; on an opposite day/night schedule)

    May be adding selegiline (deprenyl) in at 5mg ED, but "deprenyl mk II" (rasagiline) is supposed to finally get FDA approved at the end of this year, so i might just wait for that.

    May be adding in memantine (namenda) in at 10mg ED as replacement for DXM.

  6. #6
    happy sumo
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    Whats the reason for DXM? Sleep?
    P-side Inc.

    "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

  7. #7
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    Training for 9/25: Day A

    Decline BB press -
    245lbx3
    245lbx3
    245lbx3
    245lbx3
    245lbx3

    Reverse BB row -
    170lbx8
    170lbx8

    Incline DB press -
    80lbx3
    80lbx4
    80lbx3
    80lbx3

    WG pulldowns -
    150lbx12
    150lbx10

    Flat DB press -
    60lbx11

    CG cable row -
    100lbx70s (s=seconds, timed set)

    ---

    I'm not going to repeat the specific RI's and tempo's used for each exercise, but if anyone's interested, it should be pretty easy to correlate with the info i posted up above.

    This was my second "A" day, and the first one that was done correctly. However, even with the kind of crappy one i did 5 days ago, strength was greatly improved. Even back strength, which was supposedly only at maintenance levels, got stronger. Reverse rows with 165 for 8 and 7, this week it went 170 for 8 and 8.

    So yeah, thus far, im liking this.

  8. #8
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    From your recently abandoned journal:

    deprenyl or other MAOI's are going to be a fallback, since they seem to work well on atypical depression.
    Selegiline in non MAO-B selective doses along with a PEA source (Chocamine, for example) works quite well for me; a selegeline transdermal is currently being pushed through the FDA pipeline.

    Find that people who are atypically depressed are generally incapable of finding any middle ground in perception and action: hyper, then totally burnt out/up, down/manic, suicidal/ back and forth. Then you get the often debilitating psychosomatic symptoms.

    Has been the way for me since I was a kid - plagued with migraines (when younger at least), severely phobic (had to have rail guards on the bed because I was afraid of falling out), obsessive, and so on.

    Cognitive behavioral therapy can work quite well. When you're active, you have to prevent yourself from getting so carried away that you get burnt out. Stop yourself from getting too far ahead of yourself when you're energetic and active, and you'll reduce the severity of the downs. I was born a sprinter, not an endurance athlete, apparently.

    So when you're feeling great, that's when you have to be mindful of your surroundings and internal process.

    Something to consider. If you're like me, then you'll also find alcohol to be pure poison, in any amount. I avoid it, because even a few drinks is enough to severely depress my system with a carry-over effect pouring into the next day; even if I don't get drunk, my system is trashed nevertheless.


    I remember there was a thread at avant on preventing amphetamine sensitization, but (like most things) i havent had the time to go find it. IIRC there were some good ideas in there that might prolong my love affair with adderall.
    NMDA receptor antagonists. But as several people pointed out, you'll also reduce the subjective effects of focus and energy. So there's a trade-off.

    Dep, PEA and nicotine keeps it going for me. Along with a stoic oulook on life - though, that's my approach, and I can't tell someone to "be stoic!"
    Not to see many things, not to hear many things, not to permit many things to come close - first imperative of prudence, first proof that one is no mere accident but a necessity.

    Friedrich Nietzsche - Ecce Homo

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by PreMier
    Whats the reason for DXM? Sleep?
    Trying to stave off tolerance to the adderall. Initially at ~25mg, mood elevation was extreme... bordering on euphoria. Incredibly happy outlook, motivated, energetic, outgoing, and unbothered by things that would normally make me anxious. These effects have slowly worn away over the past month or two. It's originally intended purpose - treating my ADD - has not had the same tolerance build.

    I'd love to find a way to retain some of the mood-altering effects of the amphetamine without increasing the dose to neurotoxic and generally problematic levels. In theory DXM should help... and its had a few good anecdotal reports, but it's not quite as "clean" as something like memantine. I won't get into it, but the way memantine antagonizes the receptor in question "jives" a lot better with amphetamine use than something like DXM.

    Besides, this cough syrup tastes like shit.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante B.
    From your recently abandoned journal:

    Selegiline in non MAO-B selective doses along with a PEA source (Chocamine, for example) works quite well for me; a selegeline transdermal is currently being pushed through the FDA pipeline.

    Find that people who are atypically depressed are generally incapable of finding any middle ground in perception and action: hyper, then totally burnt out/up, down/manic, suicidal/ back and forth. Then you get the often debilitating psychosomatic symptoms.

    Has been the way for me since I was a kid - plagued with migraines (when younger at least), severely phobic (had to have rail guards on the bed because I was afraid of falling out), obsessive, and so on.

    Cognitive behavioral therapy can work quite well. When you're active, you have to prevent yourself from getting so carried away that you get burnt out. Stop yourself from getting too far ahead of yourself when you're energetic and active, and you'll reduce the severity of the downs. I was born a sprinter, not an endurance athlete, apparently.

    So when you're feeling great, that's when you have to be mindful of your surroundings and internal process.

    Something to consider. If you're like me, then you'll also find alcohol to be pure poison, in any amount. I avoid it, because even a few drinks is enough to severely depress my system with a carry-over effect pouring into the next day; even if I don't get drunk, my system is trashed nevertheless.




    NMDA receptor antagonists. But as several people pointed out, you'll also reduce the subjective effects of focus and energy. So there's a trade-off.

    Dep, PEA and nicotine keeps it going for me. Along with a stoic oulook on life - though, that's my approach, and I can't tell someone to "be stoic!"
    Interesting to hear some feedback on the dep + PEA. How does it affect your mood? I mean, is it on par with a good anti-depressent, or is it along the lines of amphetamine? I'm curious, since i think it was in Novicks deprenyl article that he likened PEA to an endogenous amphetamine.

    Weird that the FDA is pushing through a selegiline patch, too. Is deprenyl becoming popular again? And any idea what the reasoning is for transdermal delivery?

    Your description of atypical depression jives with my own symptoms, too. This shit sucks. The advice on the highs and lows is something i really hadnt thought about previously... but it certainly applies. In fact, my recent high resulted in a rather heavy courseload. I've had my fingers crossed that my current love-of-life affliction lasts the entire semester.

    I don't drink too often, but ive never noticed any excessively bad moods post-binge. In fact, my hangovers are usually pretty mild. That reminds me, actually - ever try megadosing sesathin during/after drinking? There was some article/blurb on sesamin i think i posted over at Lyle's board regarding some interesting anti-hangover effects.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monolith
    Interesting to hear some feedback on the dep + PEA. How does it affect your mood? I mean, is it on par with a good anti-depressent, or is it along the lines of amphetamine? I'm curious, since i think it was in Novicks deprenyl article that he likened PEA to an endogenous amphetamine.
    What do you mean by "good antidepressant." Few things positively and noticeabley affect me. I like Dep and PEA because it's strong enough to make a difference, but mild enough so as not to elicit negative reactions (I avoid amphetamines and such, because I wouldn't be able to control myself - a recent experience with meth reminded me of that).

    PEA isn't orally available without an MAO-B inhibitor.

    As far as mood, I'm simply more balanced. But I have other personality quirks that I don't want to get into, so what works for me, and what I experience, isn't necessarily going to be the case for others even if general symptoms are shared.

    Weird that the FDA is pushing through a selegiline patch, too. Is deprenyl becoming popular again? And any idea what the reasoning is for transdermal delivery?
    Dep has been studied for atypical and major depression - there's renewed interest in MAOI's (selegline, maclobemide) that don't carry the risks associated with the classic inhibitors; with transdermal delivery you avoid the potential for tyramine reactions with non-selective doses.

    The advice on the highs and lows is something i really hadnt thought about previously... but it certainly applies. In fact, my recent high resulted in a rather heavy courseload
    Exactly. I learned to control myself during my highs so I wouldn't put myself at risk. I'd take on so much, read through so many books (etc), then later put myself in a position where I was incapable of doing anything.

    I rely on meditation (far beyond mere relaxation techniques) to keep everything moving, without letting myself get out of hand; I accomplish far more when I spent my time meditating, instead of researching drugs. If you know what you're doing, you can teach yourself to induce trips and trances, among other things. Your body is a pharmacy, and your brain is in charge of the prescriptions.

    That reminds me, actually - ever try megadosing sesathin during/after drinking?
    No. Because I rarely drink - alcohol isn't a feel-good drug for me. Since I no longer work for Avant, I rarely spend my time looking into supplements and strategies. I'm out of the loop.
    Not to see many things, not to hear many things, not to permit many things to come close - first imperative of prudence, first proof that one is no mere accident but a necessity.

    Friedrich Nietzsche - Ecce Homo

  12. #12
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    Also:

    Have you ever read The Discources of Epictetus, and the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius?

    As with the Bible, merely reading the books won't do you any good if you're a saint on Sunday and a forgetful sinner the following week. Whenever you're high or low, read through them and apply the thoughts to yours, then yours to theirs - see if there's a constrast between what you 'know' and what you're doing. Stoic philosophy was the ancients' cognitive therapy. So it's not something to simply read and discuss, like the Christians who talk to talk about the good book and spend their time drinking and fucking like infidels. An active approach to well-being doesn't end when you leave the psych's office, or shut the medicine cabinet.

    It's a constant process. Years ago when I was twenty (I'm 27, now), stoic philosophy made a great impact on me: how I perceived, acted. But, it's something that has to be continually applied and renewed; emotions, reactions and thoughts have to be repeatedly stripped down before they spin you in circles. When I run on autopilot, and act as if I "know" what I need to know, I soon forget, confusing knowing with believing, ending up where I began.

    So, take the time when you have it to sit down and analzye your thoughts; stoicism is merely a useful tool to help you reduce and reintegrate them - it doesn't give you the answers, it allows you to soundly arrive at your own.
    Last edited by Dante B.; 09-25-2004 at 03:42 PM.
    Not to see many things, not to hear many things, not to permit many things to come close - first imperative of prudence, first proof that one is no mere accident but a necessity.

    Friedrich Nietzsche - Ecce Homo

  13. #13
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    Hey monolith, what does a 3/0/2 tempo mean?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante B.
    What do you mean by "good antidepressant." Few things positively and noticeabley affect me. I like Dep and PEA because it's strong enough to make a difference, but mild enough so as not to elicit negative reactions (I avoid amphetamines and such, because I wouldn't be able to control myself - a recent experience with meth reminded me of that).

    PEA isn't orally available without an MAO-B inhibitor.

    As far as mood, I'm simply more balanced. But I have other personality quirks that I don't want to get into, so what works for me, and what I experience, isn't necessarily going to be the case for others even if general symptoms are shared.
    Interesting... i might give the PEA a try at some point. At this point, id like to continue this orgasmic relationship with amphetamines as long as i can. I hear you on the control issues, though... i'm forcing myself not to increase the dose beyond a certain point, regardless of any effects i could ellicit. Something thats helped me control the urge is reading up on literature concerning the neurotoxic effects of high dose amphetamines (especially meth)... it'll definitely make you think twice before ingesting too many happy pills. In fact, that's the very reason i'm interested in hopping on some low dose deprenyl - just for its neuroprotective properties.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dante B.
    Dep has been studied for atypical and major depression - there's renewed interest in MAOI's (selegline, maclobemide) that don't carry the risks associated with the classic inhibitors; with transdermal delivery you avoid the potential for tyramine reactions with non-selective doses.
    Ah ha! I didn't connect the dots. Well, that'd be friggin awesome... i wonder how much dep the patch can provide? I wonder if they can do depo shots with it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dante B.
    Exactly. I learned to control myself during my highs so I wouldn't put myself at risk. I'd take on so much, read through so many books (etc), then later put myself in a position where I was incapable of doing anything.

    I rely on meditation (far beyond mere relaxation techniques) to keep everything moving, without letting myself get out of hand; I accomplish far more when I spent my time meditating, instead of researching drugs. If you know what you're doing, you can teach yourself to induce trips and trances, among other things. Your body is a pharmacy, and your brain is in charge of the prescriptions.
    Well thats just fucking cool. See, i've always been really, really good at controlling my emotions when im in a deep depression. I suppose ive just had a lot of practice. These amphetamine potentiated highs im getting now, though, are a whole new animal. I'm much more "in the moment" and could care less about philosophical what-ifs that would normally plague every waking moment. It's almost going from a third party witness to humanity, to actually becoming a part of it. I suppose that could be both good and bad.

    Anyway, re: the meditation... recommend any books? Ive often thought about how great it'd be if we could have conscious control over our bodies various control mechanisms, but you're making it sound like a reality. To be honest, i've always thought of meditation as glorified daydreaming.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dante B.
    No. Because I rarely drink - alcohol isn't a feel-good drug for me. Since I no longer work for Avant, I rarely spend my time looking into supplements and strategies. I'm out of the loop.
    Just ask Jodi for a swig of her bottled man-juice.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dante B.
    Also:

    Have you ever read The Discources of Epictetus, and the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius?

    As with the Bible, merely reading the books won't do you any good if you're a saint on Sunday and a forgetful sinner the following week. Whenever you're high or low, read through them and apply the thoughts to yours, then yours to theirs - see if there's a constrast between what you 'know' and what you're doing. Stoic philosophy was the ancients' cognitive therapy. So it's not something to simply read and discuss, like the Christians who talk to talk about the good book and spend their time drinking and fucking like infidels. An active approach to well-being doesn't end when you leave the psych's office, or shut the medicine cabinet.

    It's a constant process. Years ago when I was twenty (I'm 27, now), stoic philosophy made a great impact on me: how I perceived, acted. But, it's something that has to be continually applied and renewed; emotions, reactions and thoughts have to be repeatedly stripped down before they spin you in circles. When I run on autopilot, and act as if I "know" what I need to know, I soon forget, confusing knowing with believing, ending up where I began.

    So, take the time when you have it to sit down and analzye your thoughts; stoicism is merely a useful tool to help you reduce and reintegrate them - it doesn't give you the answers, it allows you to soundly arrive at your own.
    I've read Epictetus, but not Meditations. I've actually aquired quite a stack of books i want to read (shit, ive never even read most of Plato), but there never seems to be enough time (whether im actually running short of time, or just mentally out of time). I think ive got Meditations stashed away somewhere.

    I enjoyed Epictetus immensely. In fact, i enjoy stoicism in general. It seems like a giant evolutionary leap forward for humanity - breaking those final bonds with our primal, instinct driven anscestors. But in practice, it seems like its just another false prophet. I mean, you would have to live in isolation for the duration of your life to really enjoy that philosophy... since there really arent many people out there interested in or willing to shelve their emotional side. It's too hard, and they can't understand why anyone would want to to begin with. I mean, each one of those brief relapses into an emotional existence is really, really fucking painful. It seems like ive been saying this a lot lately, but it seems as though humanity just hasnt reached the cognitive ability to do much more than reproduce, yet. The few people who seem to have some take on an alternate plane of consciousness are either crazy or were somehow traumatized emotionally/physically/psychologically to the point where it bumped them out of that primal, emotional response to life. Hence, its just a bunch of us crackheads running around pissed off at the world for not being smart enough to see the world through the shattered glass like we do.

    rofl, good luck interpreting that rant, btw.

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