Need Advice - Beginner

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  1. #1
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    Need Advice - Beginner

    I've been training for approximately 4-1/2 weeks, and would like some advice from any seasoned veterans who may have taken, or are taking, a similar supplement structure as seen below:

    300 -tess
    4 I.U.'s injectable HGH / day (brand name...purchased with scrip)

    5'-9"
    158 lbs.
    34 yrs old.

    Questions:
    1. I have heard ....'generally'...that injectable does of GH at around 4 IU's per day, will stimulate new cell growth...and doses around 2 IU's per day will 'cut'.
    Can anyone verify this has been their experience?
    2. Is the level of syponate acceptable for a beginner?

    While I have heard higher does will have faster effects, I am concerned about potential side effects. In short, my end goal is 180 lbs., with single digit body fat. As such, I am not concerned with really 'beefing'...rather putting on some mass, then cutting hard (through a series of cycles, of course).

    The more important question regards the HGH, in which I get 20 different answers from 20 different sources, in all probablity due to the lack of individuals who actually use GH on a regular basis, given it is cost prohibitive at times.

    The only marked side effect, so far, is some fairly strong muscle cramps and joint pain at night, which occur approximately 3 hours after the injection. Does anyone know if this effect decreases over time? And if not, will reduced dosages of say...to 2 IU's per day...reduce the effect? ....and if 2 IU's only cut, but effectiveness with GH is only seen with consistent use over an extended period of time...is using the GH going to do me any good at this stage, where I am simply trying to add mass?

    Also, has anyone experienced any numbness in extremities with the use of GH?

    Any advice appreciated. I'm green.

  2. #2
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    You shouldn't be touching this stuff yet. You need about a decade more workout experience and a decades more worth of research.





  3. #3
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    4.5 weeks of training and you want to use test and GH ?
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

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    Yeah even at 34, you can make some great gains without it!




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    You've got to be kidding?!

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    Quote Originally Posted by LAM
    4.5 weeks of training and you want to use test and GH ?
    I think he said "tess". If you can't spell it then you aren't ready to be on it.

  7. #7
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    damn, 4.5 weeks of training and GH???

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    Actually your questions belie having done quite a bit of research. I just think you have come to the wrong conclusions about how to proceed.

    The obvious fact is that you can achieve your long term goal without the use of steroids. Perhaps you know this and just want to get there faster. Fair enough imo. The other obvious point is that you should be able to get there in one good and simple cycle. This I think you have completely missed in your research.

    Why even worry with the growth hormone?

    Run a simple Test only cycle at about 1/2 a gram a week for 3 months.

    Make sure you have a good training program that will produce results with or without gear.

    If you are confused on the diet end. Just eat 2g/lb in protein each day without fail. Eat however many calories it takes for the scale to move up. Start as high as possible, way over what you think you'll need and reduce when you noticed grossly excessive fat gain. This is not horrible advice for an ecto like yourself.

    To give you an idea, I am an endo. I put on about 60 lbs now on my first cycle, not all lean. I could have added more if I wanted. Getting 22 lbs lean is very feasible. Even for an ecto.

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    Thanks Cardinal.

    The other responses were typical from what I have seen so far:

    Response A- You should not be using that, it's too early.
    Response B- Man, you're gonna blow up. Those side effects....bah..forget em.

    Problem - I can't find a single person with a definitive answer as to what 'early' or even 'too much' means. Further, I have an article from the New England Journal of Medicine touting the benefits of GH and Longevity Centers, and others telling me how 'bad' it is. Ignoring the usual suspects of inaccurate information ...i.e. paid advertisements...the crux I've seen is there is no definitive proof either way.

    Often, those that oppose the use of GH are those that achieved success without it, or those that cannot afford it. In both cases, I understand the reasoning for such...but that still does not provide data as to why it is BAD , if in fact it is at all bad whatsoever.

    So, I will revise my original question, with addendum

    1. Has anyone who has used this level of supplements seen any negative side effects.
    2. If so, did they diminish with time.

    Addendum
    I'm not seeking moral guidance...rather any substantiated scientific proof...which is the reason I consulted these boards to see if anyone had used the therapy, given most writing articles in favor are doing so for potential profit, and those not in favor...have never used it.

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    If you are looking to GH for health benefits then 1iu per day will suffice. But 4iu a day is far over that, and constitutes drug use for other purposes.

    With 4.5 weeks of training, steroids would be considered premature because you dont yet know the most effective way to train for your body and schedule, nor eat. I am not drawing a comparison because "I know everything" because I surely dont, that is however why people are not advised to just jump into steroid use. After 4.5 weeks of reading on steroids I would not even be comfortable with someone saying "Ok I'm ready now."
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

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    Mudge's answer on the 'how much is too much' is about as close as you are going to get I think without learning how you react to varying dosages through experimentation. It is also premature for the reasons he stated.

    It is however, not 'too early' for someone your age necessarily. Since GH starts to decline when you get over 30 or thereabouts, mid thirties is considered about the earliest one should start. At least that is the typical advice I hear all the time.

    You are just going about it in the wrong way. There is a normal progression that people take that are interesting in gaining max muscle through supplementation.

    Usually it is recommended to start with the standard test only or test/dbol bulker. Users then often choose to stack other roids to make stacks that will help them achieve specific individualistic goals (like max strength or muscular bulk) while minimizing side effects. For some it may be as simple as using a little more test or adding in some tren for a cutter. Nothing too complicated is really needed most of the time. The reason GH isn't used right away is not just that the cost is prohibitive. There are concerns about getting minimal results versus the risk you take. An appreciable dose may be needed to see really good benefits, but that usually comes with the added risk factor. Almost certainly more risk than doing a comparable safer AAS only cycle.

    You are looking for people who have used it here. You are pretty much on the wrong board to find more than a handful that will respond or check this thread.

    Anabolicminds has some folks that have used it and have cycle journals posted. There is a whole gh/igf/slin section.

    If you want more theoretical opinions and data, go to cuttingedgemuscle and ask at Nandi's board.

    Most guys start using steroids somewhere in their early to late 20's and frankly don't want GH until they get to be really old farts.

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