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  1. #1

    Question Sprint Training

    does anybody do any sprint training here to increase sprinting speed? i was thinking of doing this 2 times a week on my off days - is this enough? i was plannning on doing 30 mins which would be light jog for 5 mins before and after (to get to the lane i plan to use!) and then 10 sets of sprints of 50 - 60 meters with about 100 seconds rest in between.

    i have not noticed many people talking specificly about sprint training but any advice would be helpfull. also if anybody has any tips for other good excercises i could use it would be very helpfull.

    gaz

  2. #2
    I sprint train to lean out my legs to get contest ready and 2 days per week should be plenty that's all I do. Your plan sounds good. I sprint 100 meters and jog or walk the track 1 lap and repeat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaz_9
    does anybody do any sprint training here to increase sprinting speed? i was thinking of doing this 2 times a week on my off days - is this enough? i was plannning on doing 30 mins which would be light jog for 5 mins before and after (to get to the lane i plan to use!) and then 10 sets of sprints of 50 - 60 meters with about 100 seconds rest in between.

    i have not noticed many people talking specificly about sprint training but any advice would be helpfull. also if anybody has any tips for other good excercises i could use it would be very helpfull.

    gaz
    I would do a 1/2 mile warm-up jog then some very light stretching. then do 10 sets of sprints from 50-100m. you can do some maximum efforts sprints off the line and as you get tired do some rolling starts
    William F. Buckley describes a conservative as, "someone who stands athwart history, yelling Stop." - and then proceeds to drag civilization back to times best left in history's dungheap.

  4. #4
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    Why are you trying to increase sprint speed?
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  5. #5
    for playing sports. im not really trying to get big, just lower b/f and increased power/muscle (get back some of my speed!). any resistance work you recomend? i do squats, leg extensions and leg curls at the moment.

    im 21 but had a lay off for a few months with shoulder injury but 100% better now so rearing to go!!!

    my 5 min warm up and warm down are probably 1/2mile each as thats what it takes me to jog down to my 'sprint lane!' (through the village and down an old farmers track - the surface is ok)

    thanks

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    What sports?
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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  7. #7
    plyometrics would be good as well.
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  8. #8
    I would also recommend extremely explosive movements, such as jump squats and cleans (great for overall speed). Also, you might try alternating between your usual workout cycle (say three times a week) and then doing the next week with lighter weights but moving the weights as fast as possible with good form. For example, if you can bench 100, use 50 total, but push with all 100 pounds of force you have. That should develop some explosive speed. You may want to do something like eight sets of two so you concentrate on speed and don't tire yourself out (the purpose is not endurance after all).
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    bodybuilding.com has a speed routine along with a vertical routine and it explains exactly what components you need in your training

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
    What sports?
    rugby

  11. #11

    For example, if you can bench 100, use 50 total, but push with all 100 pounds of force you have. That should develop some explosive speed.


    I really hope nobody, in a strength training program, that is largely dependant on TENSION, would not use half of what they can work out with in an attempt to "generate 100 pounds of force"..

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts




    I really hope nobody, in a strength training program, that is largely dependant on TENSION, would not use half of what they can work out with in an attempt to "generate 100 pounds of force"..

    Refernce the sig
    Whats wrong with speed/dynamic effort training?

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    The problem with Jones' theories is that they center around this erroneus notion that you either have specificity or you don't, that there are no levels of specificity. Take tennis for example, there is singles and doubles. Now, I can assure you, singles and doubles are 2 totally different games. Take 2 singles players that have never played doubles before and have them play a good doubles team and they will lose horribly. Now, take 2 people who have never touched a racquet before and have them play doubles against the 2 singles players. Assuming neither team has played doubles before and that there are no levels of specificity, both teams have the same chance of winning. I can assure you this is false.

    Now, with regard to performing individual movements. Take a gymnast performing a bar routine. A gymnast does not learn a bar routine by grabbing the bar and performing a full routine, they break down the routine into portions and they do it that way, otherwise they would kill themselves. If there were no levels of specificity then this would be the wrong way to go about things and you would gain no positive efefect from training this way, only performing the routine from start to finish would be an effective method of training.

    WRT explosive movements, it is not strength you are training when you are doing explosive movements, it is enhancing the stretch-shortening cycle, similar to what you are doing with plyometrics. There are tons of studies supporting the use of plyometrics and here is an article on plyos.

    http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~j15/lr/lr_index.htm
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale Mabry
    The problem with Jones' theories is that they center around this erroneus notion that you either have specificity or you don't, that there are no levels of specificity. Take tennis for example, there is singles and doubles. Now, I can assure you, singles and doubles are 2 totally different games. Take 2 singles players that have never played doubles before and have them play a good doubles team and they will lose horribly. Now, take 2 people who have never touched a racquet before and have them play doubles against the 2 singles players. Assuming neither team has played doubles before and that there are no levels of specificity, both teams have the same chance of winning. I can assure you this is false.

    Now, with regard to performing individual movements. Take a gymnast performing a bar routine. A gymnast does not learn a bar routine by grabbing the bar and performing a full routine, they break down the routine into portions and they do it that way, otherwise they would kill themselves. If there were no levels of specificity then this would be the wrong way to go about things and you would gain no positive efefect from training this way, only performing the routine from start to finish would be an effective method of training.

    WRT explosive movements, it is not strength you are training when you are doing explosive movements, it is enhancing the stretch-shortening cycle, similar to what you are doing with plyometrics. There are tons of studies supporting the use of plyometrics and here is an article on plyos.

    http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~j15/lr/lr_index.htm
    Good Analogy.. it felt like the SAT reading that thing

  15. #15
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    Yeah, hear that. The guys from NASM this weeked were big on power training for their athletes also. One thing I didn't know that they talked about was that for it to be a "true" power exercise there can't be any deceleration, you need to let go. Like a clean or box squat or speed bench can't be a true power exercise (even though we group them that way) because you have to decelerate at the end of the lift. They are all about BW box jumps, plyos and various medecine ball throws using a med. ball that is 10% of your BW so you can accelerate properly.
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  16. #16
    I'm not going to get into this again. I've already gone into why these so called "Jones theories" (which they aren't) are in fact not wrong.

    I will say this, however, that : "enhancing the stretch-shortening cycle" that Dale Marbry referenced.

    Here is something rarely discusses in the Plyo world. Most of the talk about how Plyos revolve around the stretch-reflex, and not around skill acquisition. Where does the streth reflex go through? Your brain or your spinal cord? The answer is, it goes through the spinal cord. How teachable is a reflex that goes through your spinal cord? It literally does not get to the brain. Really, the main reason the stretch reflex exists is to prvent you from destroying yourself.
    The other rarely discussed fact about plyos is that much of the mystery surrounding them deals with something called the 'Amortization Phase.' That is, part of the stretch-shoretning cycle. Plyos are suppose to 'teach' this to be quicker. Well, the facts are a little different. The higher or more intense the plyo jump,. the longer the amortization phase. In other words, what is supposed to be the most beneficical way of developing explosive jumping ability is 'teaching' (or training) the amortization phase to be longer. As I believe Tom Kelso once mentioned, in terms of the amortization phase, the best plyometric activity you could do would be sprinting.
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  17. #17
    ake tennis for example, there is singles and doubles. Now, I can assure you, singles and doubles are 2 totally different games. Take 2 singles players that have never played doubles before and have them play a good doubles team and they will lose horribly. Now, take 2 people who have never touched a racquet before and have them play doubles against the 2 singles players. Assuming neither team has played doubles before and that there are no levels of specificity, both teams have the same chance of winning. I can assure you this is false.
    Where on Earth did you come to this assumption??

    Tennis is a specific skill. Playing doubles is a slight altercation that requires most of the same fundamental properties, except it requires a more complex dealing with open skills. The point is that if you want to play good at being a singles player, and you practice for a singles tournament by playing doubles, you would be better off being specific.

    The reason you would want to be specific would simply be because practicing doubles long enough will likely hurt your ability to play singles. Playing a part of the court and dealing with two opponents is much more complex.

    The swing, and neuromuscular coordination of actually playing the ball in Tennis is identical. What your'e getting into is the definition of applying these specific skills to different situations: skills that are serial movements, composed of discrete skills that are of an open-skill nature, that work into a closed loop system.
    "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

  18. #18
    Take a gymnast performing a bar routine. A gymnast does not learn a bar routine by grabbing the bar and performing a full routine, they break down the routine into portions and they do it that way, otherwise they would kill themselves. If there were no levels of specificity then this would be the wrong way to go about things and you would gain no positive efefect from training this way, only performing the routine from start to finish would be an effective method of training.
    Let me explain in terms what a gymnast actually does. Initially, they probably have great innate balance. Secondly, they are in a good shape. They then practice each movement in a routine, as you say, in segments. Each one is unique and difficult. And specific.

    They then practice this in order.

    "If there were no levels of specificity then this would be the wrong way to go about things and you would gain no positive efefect from training this way, only performing the routine from start to finish would be an effective method of training."

    Who said this?? And why?? Who said you can't practice individual discrete skills in an open or closed loop system, if the application of them is simply some kind of sequencial order? Who says you can't learned specific skills, practice them, and then just do them one after the other?
    "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

  19. #19
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    You actually have never gone into why they are not wrong. You have only stated that from what you have read about the neuromuscular system they seem right. I think both of my examples are pretty good indicators of how they are wrong. That site I posted had about 10 citations of studies showing support for plyos.

    You are confusing the stretch reflex with the SSC. The stretch reflex is due to lengthening of the muscle spindles and, as you said, never reaches the brain. The SSC is more about storing elastic potential energy locally in the myofibrils than a neurological response. It may use the stretch reflex, but the SSC doesn't just work through one component.

    Your last article has absolutely no citation showing the statement to be supported by anything, so I will asume it is not.


    P-Funk, David Sandler's High-Performance Sports Conditioning goes into the notion that a true power movement has no deceleration component and actually recommends doing stuff like that more often. I did some bench throws on the smith machine last week and those fuckers hurt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts
    Who said this?? And why?? Who said you can't practice individual discrete skills in an open or closed loop system, if the application of them is simply some kind of sequencial order? Who says you can't learned specific skills, practice them, and then just do them one after the other?

    I thought you did, when I was talking about doing closed skill movements such as the pro agility and other agility drills. If I was wrong then I apologize.

    I was stating that you should learn closed skill movements, move to open skill movements, but you would never completely remove closed skill drills from your routine. I though you were completely against closed skill movements?
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  21. #21
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    P-Funk, David Sandler's High-Performance Sports Conditioning goes into the notion that a true power movement has no deceleration component and actually recommends doing stuff like that more often. I did some bench throws on the smith machine last week and those fuckers hurt.
    Dave Sandler is a smart guy. he spoke at the Arnold Classic convention when I was there. I think he owns the site strengthpro.com?? or maybe sportspecific.com?? can't remeber which one.
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  22. #22
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    How great would it have been to buy that site up when it was possible. Sportspecific looks cool, but I won't be paying for stuff I can get for free.
    If sense were common, everyone would have it.

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  23. #23
    If you'd like, I can compile a list of studies that support the claims I'm making. I've read a number of plyo studies that had numerous confounding variables, poor testing protocols, poor designs, and so forth. I just read a very dense article going through problems with plyometric studies, and I can probably type it out when I get some time.

    The point is, on both sides, studies, unless read comprehensively, are not evidence. The fact that you referenced an article that had "10 studies" is completely meaningless unless you actually evaluate those studies. I don't have enough time to do such, and neither do most people here; the problem is that there is so much support on both sides (there is) that everything has to be viewed with skepticism. I recently read how one book author refernced a study 10 times to support his sport-specific weight methodology.

    The point is, the actual studies contradicted what he was saying.

    In any case, I think this argument is tired, and if you'd like I'd be happy to refernce some of the neuromuscular research I'm consulting.
    "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

  24. #24
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    I didnĀ“t read a word of this thread, not even the title. Just to let you know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts
    If you'd like, I can compile a list of studies that support the claims I'm making. I've read a number of plyo studies that had numerous confounding variables, poor testing protocols, poor designs, and so forth. I just read a very dense article going through problems with plyometric studies, and I can probably type it out when I get some time.

    The point is, on both sides, studies, unless read comprehensively, are not evidence. The fact that you referenced an article that had "10 studies" is completely meaningless unless you actually evaluate those studies. I don't have enough time to do such, and neither do most people here; the problem is that there is so much support on both sides (there is) that everything has to be viewed with skepticism. I recently read how one book author refernced a study 10 times to support his sport-specific weight methodology.

    The point is, the actual studies contradicted what he was saying.

    In any case, I think this argument is tired, and if you'd like I'd be happy to refernce some of the neuromuscular research I'm consulting.

    I've been a clinical research coordinator at the University of Pennsylvania for 5 years, I would love to tear apart your articles. As a matter of fact, I work for a neurologist in pain management so I could ask him what he thinks if you like. Give me 3 articles that support what you say and I will look them over. All research has inherent flaws in it, the only problem is when the author tries to conceal it or totally ignores it.

    EDIT: If a study makes it into a peer-reviewed journal, you can expect that at least methodolgically it was sound.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts
    I recently read how one book author refernced a study 10 times to support his sport-specific weight methodology.

    This is a technique typical of people without credentials trying to sound knowledgeable. Who was the author, do you know? I bet he had ACE next to his name.
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  27. #27
    Give me a few days, and I'll point you in the direction of such. Finals tommorow.
    "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

  28. #28
    someones got nailed, haha

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HardTrainer
    someones got nailed, haha
    Not really, I am very interested to look at these studies. I could be wrong, I don't believe that I am, but I could be.

    Thanks DD, let me know when you gots time.
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