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    here comes the draft







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    I love it the American Government tricking kids again and backing up there misleading offer with lawyers and jail time. God bless America.
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    It is and always has been (at least for a long time) 8 years owed. Thats definitely fine print that peope miss out on alot. If you do 4 years active, then you owe 4 years inactive. It is inactive reserves, which is a different beast than active... but still, a harsh reality for those who dont read the paper work.

    The day when my total 8 years was up was nice, but I was pretty sure I wouldnt be recalled after my 5 years active. Navy really has no need to recall inactive. Army on the other hand... who knows.

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    btw, I still disagree with the statement that the draft would be better, there is a whole lot more to it than that.

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    I'm in the service and have been for almost 5yrs. Well it was time for me to leave and
    they told me that i would get sent to the worst place on there list until my time was
    up if i didn't obligate more time. Now I am stuck with over 2yrs more yrs away from
    my daughter. I tried to appeal what happened to me and they basically told me to kiss
    their ass and i'm stuck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joesmooth20
    I'm in the service and have been for almost 5yrs. Well it was time for me to leave and
    they told me that i would get sent to the worst place on there list until my time was
    up if i didn't obligate more time. Now I am stuck with over 2yrs more yrs away from
    my daughter. I tried to appeal what happened to me and they basically told me to kiss
    their ass and i'm stuck.

    Thats a negative attitude brother. You live in the greatest country in the world, and you should be happy to be used by them. So what if they lied and threatened you, it is after all for the greater good. God bless America.
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    If the draft is only for those who voted for Bush, then it's all good.
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    I was in the service [Army], and I don't think a draft would be better either. The last thing Canada needs is more Americans running away to their country to avoid a draft. But then again my opinion is it is better to serve your country. Just do it voluntarily, not through a draft. And if you don't want to serve that is ok also. We live in a free country. Those who choose not to serve shouldn't be belittled for it.
    The statue of Liberty no longer reads "Bring us your tired, your hungry, your huddled masses..."
    Now she's holding a baseball bat and it reads "Bring It On."

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    Quote Originally Posted by heeholler
    I was in the service [Army], and I don't think a draft would be better either. The last thing Canada needs is more Americans running away to their country to avoid a draft. But then again my opinion is it is better to serve your country. Just do it voluntarily, not through a draft. And if you don't want to serve that is ok also. We live in a free country. Those who choose not to serve shouldn't be belittled for it.
    To serve a just and righteous country would be an honor. Thats why I would never serve in America
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    One of the biggest threats to American civil libertaries and our security is:

    The American military.

    Why?

    Because of the Military-Industrial Complex.

    1. Military
    2. D.O.D/Pentagon
    3. Defense contracting corporations.


    I support the insurgents in Iraq.
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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    I have to add a P.S. here about my above post.

    I am not against the troops. I want them all well.


    I am against a small group of unelected bureaucrats that started this war based upon lie, after lie, after lie.

    Saddam as the Twentieth Hijacker
    by James Bovard, October 1, 2004


    The 9/11 commission reported in June that there was no “collaborative relationship” between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda, and thus that Bush’s Enemy No. 1 had no role in the 9/11 attacks. Far from finding any partnership between the two, the report noted that bin Laden “at one time sponsored anti-Saddam Islamists in Iraqi Kurdistan.” This report effectively nuked a key justification for the U.S. invasion of Iraq.

    President Bush responded to the revelation by asserting, “The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al-Qaeda is because there was a relationship between Iraq and al-Qaeda.” But the evidence showed that though al-Qaeda had repeatedly approached Saddam’s regime about working together, the Iraqi government had effectively rebuffed their proposals.

    The Bush administration cannot brush aside the 9/11 commission’s report. A commission whose chairman was appointed by Bush and whose ground rules were dictated in large part by the White House has found that the Bush administration’s claim regarding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was baseless. And after more than 900 American soldiers have died in Iraq, this cannot qualify as a harmless error.

    It is vital to recognize how persistently and intently Bush exploited Americans’ fears on the Saddam–al-Qaeda link to justify his preemptive assault against Iraq.

    In a memo President Bush sent on March 18, 2003, notifying Congress that he was launching the war against Iraq, he declared that he was acting

    to take the necessary actions against international terrorists and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001.

    Bush invoked this justification even though his administration had never offered a shred of evidence tying Saddam to 9/11. But the Saddam–al-Qaeda link was the key to the administration’s exploitation of the ignorance of the American people. Bush and team continually threw out new accusations and then backed off, knowing that few people were paying close enough attention to recognize that previous charges had collapsed like a row of houses of cards.

    As much as Bush may have personally disliked Saddam, he still needed pretexts to rally public support to attack a nation 6,000 miles away that appeared to pose no threat to America. In the first months after 9/11, there was little mention of Iraq in the public pronouncements by Bush and his top officials. But in his State of the Union address on January 29, 2002, Bush stunned many people by announcing that Iraq, along with Iran and North Korea, was part of an “axis of evil.”


    Conflating Saddam and Osama

    Since the war on terrorism had stratospheric support levels in the polls from the American people, the best way to sanctify a war against Iraq was to redefine it as part of the war on terrorism. Bush, commenting to the press on September 25, 2002, compared al-Qaeda and Saddam:

    Al-Qaeda hides, Saddam doesn’t, but the danger is, is that they work in concert. The danger is that al-Qaeda becomes an extension of Saddam’s madness and his hatred and his capacity to extend weapons of mass destruction around the world.... You can’t distinguish between al-Qaeda and Saddam when you talk about the war on terror.... They’re both equally as bad, and equally as evil, and equally as destructive.

    Bush had barely made the accusation before the White House began spinning his comments. White House press secretary Ari Fleischer “tried to play down the specificity of Bush’s charge, saying the president was talking about what he feared could occur,” the Washington Post reported.

    On the following day, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld announced that the United States possessed “bulletproof” evidence linking Saddam and al-Qaeda. But it was apparently a bullet that could never be exposed to sunlight. (An earlier alleged link between Iraqi agents and hijacker Mohamed Atta meeting in Prague had long since collapsed, with the story disavowed by both the Central Intelligence Agency and the Czech government.)

    On October 7, 2002, Bush, speaking to a selective audience of Republican donors and others in Cincinnati, laid out his logic:

    We know that Iraq and the al-Qaeda terrorist network share a common enemy — the United States of America. We know that Iraq and al-Qaeda have had high-level contacts that go back a decade. Some al-Qaeda leaders who fled Afghanistan went to Iraq. These include one very senior al-Qaeda leader who received medical treatment in Baghdad this year, and who has been associated with planning for chemical and biological attacks.... And we know that after September the 11th, Saddam Hussein’s regime gleefully celebrated the terrorist attacks on America. The fact that some Iraqis cheered the carnage on September 11 was offered as evidence that Saddam could team up with al-Qaeda for a second 9/11.

    On November 1, 2002, at a Republican campaign rally in New Hampshire, Bush denounced Saddam:

    We know he’s got ties with al-Qaeda. A nightmare scenario, of course, is that he becomes the backside for a terrorist network, where they could attack America, and he’d leave no fingerprints behind.

    The link between Saddam and al-Qaeda then took a three-month recess, returning in the 2003 State of the Union address, when Bush declared that “Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al-Qaeda.” Then he reached for the ultimate hot button:

    Imagine those 19 hijackers with other weapons and other plans, this time armed by Saddam Hussein. It would take one vial, one canister, one crate slipped into this country to bring a day of horror like none we have ever known.
    Three days later, when Bush was directly asked by a journalist at a White House press conference, “Do you believe that there is a link between Saddam Hussein, a direct link, and the men who attacked on September the 11th?” Bush replied, “I can’t make that claim.” Yet that did not stop him from continually implying it.

    The bevy of new allegations were based on nothing more than guesses and hunches. The Los Angeles Times revealed,

    The Bush administration’s renewed assertions of links between Iraq and al-Qaeda are based largely on the murky case of a one-legged al-Qaeda suspect who was treated in Baghdad after being wounded in the war in Afghanistan.
    Abu Musab Zarqawi, a terrorist group leader, spent time in Baghdad after the U.S. forces attacked Afghanistan but there was no evidence that he conspired with Saddam’s regime while there. Time noted of Bush’s message on Saddam and al-Qaeda,

    If there was no visible evidence to link the two, he just used that fact to argue his point: the danger is everywhere, even if we can’t see it; the threat is growing, even if we can’t prove it. The Administration’s argument for war is based not on the strength of America’s intelligence but on its weakness.

    Shaping public opinion

    Unless someone followed Bush’s rhetoric on a full-time basis, he would miss the switching off and on of the Saddam–al-Qaeda connection. But it was not necessary for administration officials to continually assert the link — as long as they mentioned it often enough to plant the seeds and fan the fears in Americans’ minds.

    In the first weeks after 9/11, fewer than 10 percent of Americans suggested to poll takers that Saddam was the source of the terrorist attacks. However, after the constant accusations and insinuations by the Bush administration, the number soared.

    A February 2003 poll found that 72 percent of Americans believed that Saddam was “personally involved in the September 11 attacks.” A January 2003 poll found that almost half of Americans believed that one or more of the 9/11 hijackers were Iraqi — even though not a single hijacker hailed from that country. Seventy-three percent believed that Saddam “is currently helping al-Qaeda.”

    Bush played the Saddam-9/11 link like a master violinist. A Christian Science Monitor analysis published on March 14, 2003, noted,

    In his prime-time press conference last week, which focused almost solely on Iraq, President Bush mentioned Sept. 11 eight times. He referred to Saddam Hussein many more times than that, often in the same breath with Sept. 11. Bush never pinned blame for the attacks directly on the Iraqi president.

    Still, the overall effect was to reinforce an impression that persists among much of the American public: that the Iraqi dictator did play a direct role in the attacks.... The White House appears to be encouraging this false impression, as it seeks to maintain American support for a possible war against Iraq.

    After the 9/11 commission staff report came out, White House chief spokesman Scott McClellan was asked whether the Bush administration had misled the American people. McClellan replied, “I guess I don’t look at polls and look at it in those terms. In terms of this administration, we laid out the facts very clearly for the American people.”

    McClellan’s reply epitomizes how the Bush administration will never admit any of its deceptions. The unjustified, unnecessary war against Iraq should be a lasting warning to Americans not to trust government officials who claim the need to kill in the name of peace.

    Link: http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0409c.asp
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

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  12. #12
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    heres an idea, anyone who supported the war in Iraq and Bush's actions in getting us there, MUST NOW GO FIGHT IT! The army is running far too short of its recruiting goals and all you asshole who like Bush, surely this is the least you can do for your illustrious leader whom you wholly support, no...?

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    The Army is so strained now that they are signing up recruits for only 15 month periods. There have been many chages of misrepresentation and lying all across the country.

    Even with the back-door draft they are strained.

    17,000 + injured in Iraq is also 17,000 less troops in Iraq.

    One Army recruiter actually was confused as to why recruiting so short this year....


    Makes you wonder, eh?
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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    I heard they missed their goal by 42% recently!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu
    I support the insurgents in Iraq.
    Thats nice, and I support some guy over there slitting your throat and leaving your corpse in a ditch.

    btw, the rest of your posting is BS... you dont need to try and pass on your shitty statements with stupid posts to try and make them seem better.

    "Oh, I support the insurgents, but just so you know, I love American troops too!"

    Fuck you.

    It seems there are alot of anti-US bitches on the boards lately. I'm fine with people being anti-Bush, but realize that the US is where it is today because a majority voted the guy into office. Stop acting like idiots and realize that this situation is just as much your fault as anybody elses. Why? Because you failed in getting the candidate into office that you wanted. You say you voted, and thats all that matters. Obviously your vote doesn't matter so much, its everyone else that votes along with you. If you cant get your "homies" to vote for you, and get a president into office that you deem acceptable, then you failed yourself, and everybody else.

    Of course, you can always make it better by running away to another country where you can make retard remarks like "I support the insurgents". Well yay for you.

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    There are many great things about being 38, the best is you can't be drafted.
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    I dont think anybody is going to get drafted anytime soon. Its political suicide for one.

    That said, I hope the people up top realize they need to taper off these wars and start doing stuff that our current military can support... and not scare off new blood. I mean, who wants to join the military during the middle of a war. Not too many, and the few that do are crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggs
    Thats nice, and I support some guy over there slitting your throat and leaving your corpse in a ditch.

    btw, the rest of your posting is BS... you dont need to try and pass on your shitty statements with stupid posts to try and make them seem better.

    "Oh, I support the insurgents, but just so you know, I love American troops too!"

    Fuck you.

    It seems there are alot of anti-US bitches on the boards lately. I'm fine with people being anti-Bush, but realize that the US is where it is today because a majority voted the guy into office. Stop acting like idiots and realize that this situation is just as much your fault as anybody elses. Why? Because you failed in getting the candidate into office that you wanted. You say you voted, and thats all that matters. Obviously your vote doesn't matter so much, its everyone else that votes along with you. If you cant get your "homies" to vote for you, and get a president into office that you deem acceptable, then you failed yourself, and everybody else.

    Of course, you can always make it better by running away to another country where you can make retard remarks like "I support the insurgents". Well yay for you.

    I agree, this dude is beyond an independent American ( maybe he is from another country) . To support anyone killing American troops is bullsh1t. Mr_Snafu, try and not be such a insufferable prick.
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  19. #19
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    Eggs and Foreman:

    I DON'T support killing American troops.

    I support the POLITICAL aspect.

    It's political NOT killing.
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ForemanRules
    I agree, this dude is beyond an independent American ( maybe he is from another country)
    I am an American citizen living overseas.


    That is why I think differently than I lot of Americans that don't read.

    Americans mostly get their information from TV: cnn, Fox, msnbc, and other sources. They are not following the details and complexity of the Iraq issue. They don't even know the basics.

    Read more watch less TV.
    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

  21. #21
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    It seems there are alot of anti-US bitches on the boards lately. I'm fine with people being anti-Bush, but realize that the US is where it is today because a majority voted the guy into office. Stop acting like idiots and realize that this situation is just as much your fault as anybody elses. Why? Because you failed in getting the candidate into office that you wanted. You say you voted, and thats all that matters. Obviously your vote doesn't matter so much, its everyone else that votes along with you. If you cant get your "homies" to vote for you, and get a president into office that you deem acceptable, then you failed yourself, and everybody else.
    Well bro, I claim zero responsibility for anything thats going on in this country, and the fact of the matter is that no matter what we voted for in the election, the election was straight up dirty as can be in Ohio. Bush wasn't elected in 2000 and they had four years of practice to do it again, and they did. What exactly are us people supposed to do when this shit is going on? Bush certainly doesn't believe in democracy, thats apparent. This country would've been better off if the majority of this country didn't vote. Nothing but dirty tactics fueled by fear mostly got the job done, so what does that say about the majority. Like I said earlier, imo if you support the war and voted for Bush, then you have to now go fight it!

    BTW people America is doing nothing about the most volitile and dangerous situation in the world, North Korea while being consumed with Iraq and Sadam, but no one has shit to say about that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu
    I am an American citizen living overseas.


    That is why I think differently than I lot of Americans that don't read.

    Americans mostly get their information from TV: cnn, Fox, msnbc, and other sources. They are not following the details and complexity of the Iraq issue. They don't even know the basics.

    Read more watch less TV.
    I lived in Italy for 2 years, and lived in Ireland for one year. So don't pull that crap on me bro. I think all governments are wrong, but I don't take sides with the enemy.I never watch TV unless its Boxing, and I have my college degree in English lit, so I have read as much as most.....I'm not smart at all, but I am no slave.
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    Eggs supports more U.S. casualties.

    Good job Eggs. You are really sharp. How many more years will the U.S. be in Iraq?

    7? 10? 12 years?



    It's an accurate statement that our current spending will not be increasing the debt We've stopped spending money that we don't have.

    -- Jack Lew, then director of the Office of Management and Budget, in Feb. 16, 2011 testimony before the Senate Budget Committee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gr81
    heres an idea, anyone who supported the war in Iraq and Bush's actions in getting us there, MUST NOW GO FIGHT IT! The army is running far too short of its recruiting goals and all you asshole who like Bush, surely this is the least you can do for your illustrious leader whom you wholly support, no...?

    yup thats so true, i said the same thing in an other post... u voted for him now go help him

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    Quote Originally Posted by gr81
    Well bro, I claim zero responsibility for anything thats going on in this country, and the fact of the matter is that no matter what we voted for in the election, the election was straight up dirty as can be in Ohio. Bush wasn't elected in 2000 and they had four years of practice to do it again, and they did. What exactly are us people supposed to do when this shit is going on? Bush certainly doesn't believe in democracy, thats apparent. This country would've been better off if the majority of this country didn't vote. Nothing but dirty tactics fueled by fear mostly got the job done, so what does that say about the majority. Like I said earlier, imo if you support the war and voted for Bush, then you have to now go fight it!

    BTW people America is doing nothing about the most volitile and dangerous situation in the world, North Korea while being consumed with Iraq and Sadam, but no one has shit to say about that.
    agreed 100%. Took the words right out of my mouth.

    (strange trend gr81 and I are having)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Snafu
    Eggs supports more U.S. casualties.

    Good job Eggs. You are really sharp. How many more years will the U.S. be in Iraq?
    Not quite, as I said before, I support someone bashing your noggin in Two different subjects completely I assure you.

    As to where I've lived, I've lived in the US less than half my life. So why dont you get off your apparent high horse and go suck some more dick.

    Another thing I do support is not saying stupid shit like "Oh, I support the insurgents, but I also support the US soldiers." You cant support one and the other, politically, or any other way. Regardless of whether the US should be over there or not, the insurgents are bastards that are murdering Iraqi men, women and children to get their way. If the US backs out now, the blood shed would be much greater. And of course you'd be there following right behind to bitch and moan about it.

    I dont think all of Iraq is worth one US life. But truth tell, we're kind of in this situation now, and you cant just pull out. That would be an ignorant move, and not likely one thats going to make us any friends in the world. Going in certainly didn't help us make any... and leaving the job half finished will drive off many more.

    Along with which it will make us look impotent, and since we are still playing at the most powerful country on Earth, that wouldn't be a wise decision. Especially with North Korea watching and wondering just what they can get away with, as well as any other country that might have bad intentions if it weren't for the fact that we are a bit trigger happy sometimes.

    So now, I dont like US soldiers dying.. I really dont like the situation we are in over there at all. But I dont think the right decision is pulling out and leaving everything half finished. So to finish this up, you cant as a decent person at all say that you are for the insurgents. These are the same people that are killing and maiming hundreds and thousands of Iraqis for political goals which are not the Iraqi peoples to begin with. So whether or not your well wishing of the insurgents conflicts with your "support" of US troops, you are well wishing murderers and thugs that are trying to take over a society and force it to their own diseased ideology. I'm sure the millions of free Iraqis thank you for your sentiment.

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    I'm under the belief that media is media, regardless of whether you're reading it or viewing it, and is always bullshit.

    unless of course, it's John Stewart

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    Quote Originally Posted by gr81
    Well bro, I claim zero responsibility for anything thats going on in this country, and the fact of the matter is that no matter what we voted for in the election, the election was straight up dirty as can be in Ohio. Bush wasn't elected in 2000 and they had four years of practice to do it again, and they did. What exactly are us people supposed to do when this shit is going on? Bush certainly doesn't believe in democracy, thats apparent. This country would've been better off if the majority of this country didn't vote. Nothing but dirty tactics fueled by fear mostly got the job done, so what does that say about the majority. Like I said earlier, imo if you support the war and voted for Bush, then you have to now go fight it!

    BTW people America is doing nothing about the most volitile and dangerous situation in the world, North Korea while being consumed with Iraq and Sadam, but no one has shit to say about that.
    christ, I'm telling you... everybody on the internet these days has a conspiracy theory. I'm half tempted not to spend any more time on it, as apparently this shit is bad for the brain. First we didn't go to the moon, now Bush pulled off some amazing coup that came down to Republicans winning in Ohio because somehow polling is done so well these days that they were able to predict what every person in every state was going to vote like... and what it came down to is that their big Repulican super computer told them that they had to cheat the system in Ohio so they could win the election.

    I'm sure thats the same amazing Republican supercomputer that told them to vote and revote and count and recount in Florida.

    Or perhaps theres a rational explanation for it all.

    I'd like to believe that some things in life are rational. That there arent aliens giving us anal probes, that we really arent the pieces of a giant computer designed to answer the most important question in the Universe, and that people need to stop pulling conspiracy theories out of their asses to answer every damn thing they cant cope with in life.

    Perfect elections dont happen anywhere. There are going to be mistakes somewhere along in the process... but those mistakes can be for and against each party. In the end, the US is a decent mix of republican and Democrat. If you want to find the real answer why Bush is in office, look to the stale, cardboard stiff face of Mr Ketchup himself and realize that he failed to move the people enough to make a difference. Just like the people that wanted him to win failed to get him elected.

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    agreed 100%. Took the words right out of my mouth.

    (strange trend gr81 and I are having)

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    christ, I'm telling you... everybody on the internet these days has a conspiracy theory. I'm half tempted not to spend any more time on it, as apparently this shit is bad for the brain. First we didn't go to the moon, now Bush pulled off some amazing coup that came down to Republicans winning in Ohio because somehow polling is done so well these days that they were able to predict what every person in every state was going to vote like... and what it came down to is that their big Repulican super computer told them that they had to cheat the system in Ohio so they could win the election.
    eggs, my man, I am by no means a conspiracy theorist, and I don't buy into all that other BS, but its an absolute fact that there was no fair play in Ohio and Florida in 2000. I mean in '00 the woman (I forget her name) who was in charge of the electoral computer was extremely high up in the Bush/Cheney campaign. In '04 several things happened, like ballots were sent out on the wrong paper and then when mailed in people were told that these ballots didn't count, as well as republicans calling people and telling people which district to vote which was indeed the wrong district to which they couldn't vote. A number of dirt went on and has nothing to do with conspiracy. Bush is a fuccin liar and a cheater, and its no coincidence that when there is wrong doin, the democrats end up on the losing side.. Look into it, it has nothing to do with aliens or moon landings or any of that garbage and at a certain point you gotta stop putting taht shit behind you election after election and start facing facts and not letting people getting away with this bullshit..

    I dont think all of Iraq is worth one US life. But truth tell, we're kind of in this situation now, and you cant just pull out. That would be an ignorant move, and not likely one thats going to make us any friends in the world. Going in certainly didn't help us make any... and leaving the job half finished will drive off many more.
    with that being said eggs I totally agree with you man on this and a few other points, there is no way we can pull out of Iraq no, no way, it would decend into horrible civil chaos even worse than whats going on now, which is a huge part of the reason we shouldn't have gotten involved in the first place, but theres no reason to focus on why or how we got there anymore, we have to focus on whats the plan for now. And to say you support the insurgence is just ridiculous and insulting. You can't support our troops and the insurgence at the sametime, and to say that is just insulting and ignorant, no matter what you think about Bush. These people are maniacs Snafu, how could you say that. I understand the feeling of dissapointment and betrayal from the US government, but lets be realistic and deal with the situation we are presently in, thats what we need now.

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