military press - smith? free weight?

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    military press - smith? free weight?

    Hey,
    First of all my favorite exercises are for shoulders and legs.... and for shoulders I have a dilemma thats getting to me.

    Is it best to do military press with a barbell? Or hit the smith machine? It's the first exerxise I do for my shoulders, and it is in my opinion the best shoulder exercise. So I want to do it right.

    On the smith machine, which I have been doing for the past few months, is good, but it doesn't seem to make my shoulders feel it as much as a barbell press. But when doing the barbell press, I am unstable sometimes, and the chair moves around a bit from my pushing. Because of this instability, I can't do as much weight on the barbell than smith machine.

    Is one of the two superior? Which ones do you guys do?

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    Patrick
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    barbell
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    BB, most definately.

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    I'v never done BB. I do DB's. Standing.

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    hollaaaaaaaaaaa easy decision huh

    ill start doing barbell

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    I don't like the smith machine. It is crap. The human body doesn't move in perfectly straight lines. You will probably improve your ability to stabilize the weight during a freeweight press if you stop confusing your central nervous system by pushing the weight through a false center of gravity.
    The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing...

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    smith machine = waste of space
    Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory. -G. Behn

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    Quote Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf
    smith machine = waste of space
    - (Don't be so general)

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    Use logs. ;D

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Monkey Man


    Hey Monkey, what is that last exercise called?

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    yeah thats a good leg workout.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Monkey Man
    - (Don't be so general)
    you're right...it would make a good coat rack.
    Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory. -G. Behn

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    Quote Originally Posted by min0 lee
    Hey Monkey, what is that last exercise called?

    it is called a press under.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf
    you're right...it would make a good coat rack.

    sometimes I do pull ups off the square beam on the top of it to work on my grip. Other then that it is just in my way all the time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf
    you're right...it would make a good coat rack.
    I use the bar on it for stretching. Since you adjust the level of it, it's great for different stretches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The13ig13adWolf
    you're right...it would make a good coat rack.
    I disagree. It's too damned big an clunky to make a good coat rack. Hehe.
    The only time it's bad to feel the burn is when you're peeing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by CowPimp
    I disagree. It's too damned big an clunky to make a good coat rack. Hehe.
    Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory. -G. Behn

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    I have been using the smith to do hang snatch pulls (shrugs w/a toe raise)

    I also have been using it to do stretching for my front squat form
    (its helpful to get used to squatting the bar up in a straight line)

    Plus for chinups

    (and in the winter, I put one in the back of my pickup to aid traction)

    Last edited by The Monkey Man; 11-28-2005 at 02:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hlanderr
    yeah thats a good leg workout.....
    Go ahead and try them then, wise fuck -

    If you don't want any advice, dont ask a question shithead!

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Monkey Man
    Go ahead and try them then, wise fuck -

    If you don't want any advice, dont ask a question shithead!
    ::cracking up::
    Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory. -G. Behn

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    I don't like the smith machine. It is crap. The human body doesn't move in perfectly straight lines. You will probably improve your ability to stabilize the weight during a freeweight press if you stop confusing your central nervous system by pushing the weight through a false center of gravity.
    Ah, I love the smith machine as a way to change up. Confusion of the central nervous system shouldn't be considered a bad thing. I've always believed that disruption of stasis was the best way to instigate growth anyway. I went through two weeks of doing seated BB military presses followed by burn out style behind the neck presses on a smith machine. The results were good.

    The problem with smith machines is with too much weight you could damage a rotator cuff or something because as was said the linearity of a smith machine isn't good for muscles, which create torque. Clearly a lot of effort during a straight press will go to stabilizing joint position and so forth. But that's not necessarily bad for a few weeks. Good smith machines are designed around this and won't be perfectly straight up and down, though it's impossible to have a machine perfectly adapt to the person in question.

    Uses sparingly I don't think they're a problem, just be aware of how much weight you use and how your body is reacting to the motion.
    "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Monkey Man
    Go ahead and try them then, wise fuck -

    If you don't want any advice, dont ask a question shithead!

    what the fuck is wrong with you
    im obviously looking for military press
    that is NOT a FUCKING military press

    i used to do those in HS when i played football.... it uses your legs
    since i split my days for legs and shoulders, i wouldnt do that. are you gunna tell me that that doesnt work your legs? thrusting up like that?

    just to make it clear: i asked for advice on free weight military press. get it now asshole? all i said was that exercise is good on your legs. your wise ass comments are not fucking appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duncans Donuts
    Ah, I love the smith machine as a way to change up. Confusion of the central nervous system shouldn't be considered a bad thing. I've always believed that disruption of stasis was the best way to instigate growth anyway. I went through two weeks of doing seated BB military presses followed by burn out style behind the neck presses on a smith machine. The results were good.

    The problem with smith machines is with too much weight you could damage a rotator cuff or something because as was said the linearity of a smith machine isn't good for muscles, which create torque. Clearly a lot of effort during a straight press will go to stabilizing joint position and so forth. But that's not necessarily bad for a few weeks. Good smith machines are designed around this and won't be perfectly straight up and down, though it's impossible to have a machine perfectly adapt to the person in question.

    Uses sparingly I don't think they're a problem, just be aware of how much weight you use and how your body is reacting to the motion.

    word man.... very imformative....thanks.... ill mix it up on it... keeps it interesting

    i definetly dont think its trash at all..... if it was trash then it wouldnt be in every gym

    i do upright rows on it because as i get tired with free weight i start to sway the barbell to one side.... very annoying... i can also get more reps out

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hlanderr
    i can also get more reps out
    ofcourse you can....cuz it's easier and it takes your stabilizer muscles out of the equation entirely.
    Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory. -G. Behn

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    with a barbell swaying side to side in the last few reps i cant get the same time of lift... i have to stop before i would stop on a smith machine
    there i can also do partial reps by swinging the weight up with my legs and slwly lowering it back down
    thats kinda dangerous on free weights

    try it. to failure. youll see the difference

    what is stabalizing anyways... your back muscles? not what is being worked on an upright now? and its not entirely.... you dont have the balance the bar, but your body is still free from any form of a seat or bench... you still need to balance your movements

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    ofcourse you can....cuz it's easier and it takes your stabilizer muscles out of the equation entirely.
    In certain regards, it is more of an isolation exercise. But if you're looking to focus on your shoulders (or whatever muscle), why is there a problem with it? I do isolation movements at times, which allows for more focus on contracting and performing the task at hand, without worrying about ancillary fatigue (so called stabilizer movements) influencing the rest of the work.
    "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hlanderr
    word man.... very imformative....thanks.... ill mix it up on it... keeps it interesting

    i definetly dont think its trash at all..... if it was trash then it wouldnt be in every gym
    i do upright rows on it because as i get tired with free weight i start to sway the barbell to one side.... very annoying... i can also get more reps out
    That's not true at all. Some gym's use the lastest garbage to attract potential customers in.

    That's not to say the Smith machine is garbage but I prefer the free range of motion a regular barbell provides. It sort of feels like I am cheating by using the Smith machine.

    Another note, I am interested in getting into doing functional workouts and you can forget about the Smith being functionable.

    My 2 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hlanderr
    i meant more out of each rep

    with a barbell swaying side to side in the last few reps i cant get the same time of lift

    try it. to failure. youll see the difference

    what is stabalizing anyways... your back muscles? not what is being worked on an upright now?
    its almost the same movement as a shrug
    ease off the throttle a little there sparky.

    stabilizer muscles....you have them. they hold joints in place so that the exercise may be performed while providing stationary support. if you're on a fixed plane, stationary support is not necessary and therefore not used. you're doing yourself a disservice by not using a BB. argue it if you want to but in no way, shape or form is anything you do on the smith 'better' that anything you can do with free weights.

    how bout pattern overload syndrome...familiar with that??? keep using the smith.

    if you're happy with what your doing, don't change it. but don't bitch when you get feedback that you're not happy with.

    and for the record, it's my opinion that going to failure is overrated and sometimes counterproductive. so i don't do it.
    Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar territory. -G. Behn

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    If an exercise can increase the cross-section of a muscle (hypertrophy), isn't that classified as functionable?
    "in the howling bleeding nights, the dogs plunge into the Volga and swim desperately to gain the other bank. The nights of Stalingrad are a terror for them. Animals flee this hell; the hardest stones cannot bear it for long; only men endure."

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